5. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for Climate Change about the economic impact of free ports? OQ56751

I've had a range of discussions on free ports with ministerial colleagues, including the Minister for Climate Change. However, no offer has been presented to the Welsh Government for a Welsh free port by the UK Government. Welsh Ministers have, though, clearly set out conditions where a joint approach could be taken, including, importantly, funding parity with English free ports.

Thank you for that response. We need to consider every option for new opportunities for the port of Holyhead in my constituency; I've looked at the possibilities of creating a free port for many years. But we need to be very clear about the possible benefits and disbenefits, and that's difficult when things are muddied by political rhetoric. As the Welsh Affairs Select Committee in Westminster said: 

The UK Government mustn't

'create a 'Welsh Freeport'...for optical or political purposes.'

It's important that people understand that it's not some kind of Brexit dividend, for example, because, in principle, one could have had free-port status while still in the European Union. And, as the Minister said, people need to understand that the UK Conservative Government are offering far less for free ports in Wales as compared to England—some £8 million, as compared to £25 million in England. But, yes, we need to look at the opportunities. So, can the Welsh Government, whilst insisting on a level playing field in terms of possible financial support, ensure that work is done to understand exactly what benefits could come to Holyhead on a practical level, in which sectors, and to balance that with the negative impacts that are also possible?

I should start by saying that, as we don't have a firm proposal, we don't have a proposal to work with. We have written to the UK Government, the previous Minister has written, and myself and the finance Minister will be writing again, ahead of our meeting with the Welsh Affairs Select Committee tomorrow, to set out, again, the parameters in which we are prepared to work with the UK Government to look at a free port in Wales. One of those points is funding parity. This isn't something where a Barnettised share should be provided; this is a place-based intervention, and the same funding given to any free port in England should come to any free port in Wales. I should gently say to the Member that Holyhead is one port that may wish to bid to be a free port, because, actually, what the UK Government have done is they've undertaken a competitive bidding process. Now, part of my concern is that you could end up—. Already we're seeing some activity taking place in getting ready to bid for a process that we don't understand, that isn't actually live yet, and there'll be wasted resources in doing so, because other ports would be interested in bidding to do that as well. And our challenge then is, if we were going to do this, we do want to understand more clearly about whether we genuinely create more activity or displace activity that is already taking place.

It is, of course, a matter of fact, not opinion, that free ports already existed when we were members of the European Union; it was Prime Minister Cameron who ended the free ports existing in the UK in 2012. So, it's not a new idea. And actually, what we really need is direct engagement with the Treasury, because it's a Treasury-driven project. It's something that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is very personally wedded to, and he's perfectly entitled to have individual areas of interest that he wants to see happen, but, for a free port, there has to be proper engagement with the Welsh Government as decision-taking Ministers here with the decision-taking Ministers in the UK Government to make sure we understand what we are being asked to commit to and what the full offer actually looks like. And I would like to be able to have a more detailed discussion with the Member and others, but I'm not able to do so, because, as I say, we don't have a proper offer to engage with.

Janet Finch-Saunders.

Oh, we can't hear you at the moment, Janet Finch-Saunders. Can you see if there's a button you can press? Say something, Janet, to see if we can hear you now. Say something. No. We'll come back to you. I'll call Joyce Watson next.

Diolch, Llywydd. As you said, Minister, free ports policy does, indeed, predate Brexit. It was proposed in Britannia Unchained, the 2012 manifesto for turning the UK into a low-tax, deregulated economy, written by right-wing Members of the current Tory Brexit Government, and the Prime Minister just happened to receive a £25,000 donation from Bristol port too, so I'm sceptical of the policy, to say the least. But my immediate concern is the impact of Brexit on Welsh ports. Truckers travelling to or from Ireland are increasingly met by delays and bureaucracy, leading some to bypass Welsh ports, and we've seen a significant decrease in-year in terms of volume. So, my question to you, Minister, is: what is the Welsh Government doing to safeguard the short-term viability of our ports?

We have real challenges in this area, as Joyce Watson highlights. We have a reduction of about a quarter to a third of activity through our ports. Now, that's not just an issue in Holyhead; it's certainly a big issue for the trade with the island of Ireland that comes through south-west Wales as well, through the ports in Pembrokeshire. So, this is an issue I have raised repeatedly in engagements with the UK Government to understand that this doesn't appear to be a passing matter; it's certainly not just a matter of teething problems.

Through the rest of this summer, there's going to be quite intensive engagement between the Welsh Government and all other Governments within the UK and the European Union as we look to see what happens following the free trade deal that's been agreed. There's quite a lot that's still left to agree, and that will have a real impact on the viability and the future of ports across the UK, but particularly here in Wales, where people are looking to avoid the bridge that previously existed between the island of Ireland and our ports here in Wales. It's a matter of real concern to me, and I'd like to see, as we look to create border control posts in Wales, as a direct consequence of Brexit—we need to have those in place, because of the extra checks that we need to undertake as a third country—that we actually have a broader agreement on how we're going to support ports and the economic activity that goes through them. That requires some straight answers from the UK Government, as well as clarity on the in-principle things they say they are prepared to do to support ports in the short, medium and longer term as well.

I can no longer see Janet Finch-Saunders in Zoom, so I'm presuming we've not been able to resume contact. Let's give it one other go. Yes, I can now see you, Janet; can I hear you, though? No, I don't think we can. I'm sure we'll resume contact at some point later with Janet Finch-Saunders.

Question 6, Cefin Campbell. Oh—. Question 6, Cefin Campbell.