[Inaudible.]—the Welsh Conservatives debate on the road network. I call on Natasha Asghar to move the motion. Natasha Asghar.

Motion NDM7748 Darren Millar

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Regrets:

a) the failure of successive Welsh Governments to tackle problems with congestion and air pollution on the road network in Wales;

b) the unfair distribution of capital investment in the road network across Wales;

c) the poor public transport network and cuts in bus services, particularly in rural Wales.

2. Notes with concern the Welsh Government’s decision to pause all new road improvement schemes.

3. Calls upon the Welsh Government to:

a) build the M4 relief road, upgrade the A55 and A470, and dual the A40 to Fishguard;

b) scrap proposals to enable the introduction of road pricing in Wales;

c) significantly improve access to electric vehicle charging infrastructure;

d) work with bus operators and other stakeholders to ensure that public transport is a viable option for people in all parts of the country.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. In the film Back to the Future, Doc Brown says to Marty McFly, 'Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.' Listening to those words, he could have easily been talking about Wales today. It's a sad fact that they reflect the attitude of the Welsh Government, and, in particular, the Deputy Minister for Climate Change. However, Wales does still need roads to function for commuting and transportation of goods. Ultimately, the Welsh economy still very much depends on roads.

As the Federation of Small Businesses reported in 2019, 86 per cent of those companies surveyed put investment in road infrastructure as quite or very important, making this their most important transport priority. However, successive Welsh Labour Governments have failed to address the issue of rising congestion in Wales, through a combination of apathy and incompetence. Between 2000 and 2019, the road network only increased by 2.8 per cent, despite the fact that the volume of road traffic increased by 29.5 per cent over the same period. There is no denying that some road infrastructure projects have been delivered late or over budget. Others, such as the M4 relief road, have been promised and then cancelled. Their failure to address rising congestion, as well as the poor standards of public transport, is having major health and environmental impacts on the people of Wales.

Wales has some of the worst air quality in the UK. I have mentioned on a few occasions since I've been here that Cardiff and Port Talbot both have higher PM10 levels than either Birmingham or Manchester, and that's just simply unacceptable. Congestion on Welsh roads is a major factor in this. Stop-start traffic not only emits more greenhouse gases than free-flowing traffic, it also causes more particulate pollution to be emitted. A constant flow of traffic will reduce the amount of particulate matter released by brake and tyre wear, as well as reducing the carbon dioxide that the acceleration of cars produces. 

The Welsh Government declared a climate change emergency in 2019. However, they are not providing the infrastructure to ensure that electric vehicles are a valid alternative to those that run on fossil fuels. Wales is very much lagging behind much of the United Kingdom when it comes to fast charging points for electric vehicles. While Scotland has 7.5 rapid charging points per 100,000 people, Wales only has 1.8 per 100,000. Their failure to address climate change has resorted to knee-jerk reactions such as the freezing of road building projects rather than improving public transport and easing congestion on Welsh roads.

A decision that halts plans for a new road scheme in Flintshire was described by Labour MP Mark Tami as very disappointing. Forcing people out of cars without providing adequate public transport as an alternative is just simply unworkable. The number of local bus journeys in Wales has fallen from 100 million a year in 2016-17 to 89 million in 2019-20. With 80 per cent of bus users not having access to a car, the Welsh Labour Government needs to reverse this trend in order to tackle climate change and encourage commuters to ultimately not use their cars. But this must be done properly and not by living in an idealist world, with money thrown at something with little or no result.

As I said in the debate on bus services two weeks ago, the bus services support grant has not been increased in Wales since its inception six years ago. Funding per passenger for bus services is inadequate and compares poorly with that provided for rail passengers. The freeze on new road-building projects may have been welcomed by Greta Thunberg, who we all admire for her strong beliefs and dedication to campaigning against climate change. I recognise that she is a fantastic role model for women and young people and she holds passionate beliefs, but I represent the views of those who live in Wales, those who have to use our substandard roads, and those who cannot rely on public transport, especially in rural areas.  

We have all seen the news reports, and I have had countless messages from people all across Wales—north, south, east and west—expressing their anger and dismay at the Deputy Minister’s announcement. This Government plans to spend £75 million on active travel, nearly £29 million on public transport and £9 million for zero-emission charging infrastructure. This is commendable, but how about the roads that we already have here and now? We need a programme of improvements to our road network and not a moratorium. When I became a Member of this Senedd I searched for a document—any document—to give me some indication as to the Welsh Government's strategy for transport. To my amazement, after searching high and low and asking numerous people, I found numerous reports from different people and organisations, but nothing specific from the Welsh Government about their long-term plans. There is nothing in writing about the upgrading the A55, one of the most important roads in the United Kingdom, which, ultimately, is there to provide a vital link for the population of north Wales, and between the busy port of Holyhead and key arterial roads like the M6 and the rest of the United Kingdom.

We need to dual the A40 to Fishguard, opening up the region for investment from businesses and allowing for increased access to tourists. The A470 is horrendous, with very few passing places to overtake slower vehicles. If this was to be improved it would open up mid Wales and allow for an increase in investment in the region, which would be welcomed by everyone. What consideration has been given to relieving pressure on the M4 by building a motorway junction on the M48 where the Severn toll booths used to be? The link would ultimately ease pressure on junctions 23 and 24, providing direct access to Severn Tunnel Junction. If traffic heading to Cardiff or Newport could leave the roads at Severn Tunnel Junction and commuters use the direct train service into the cities, this could again significantly reduce congestion on the M4.

The Deputy Minister has already u-turned on his road-building freeze by allowing the Llandeilo bypass project to continue. The First Minister claimed, 'When this Government strikes an agreement with another party, we will honour it'. However, in the Labour-Plaid budget agreement, a figure of £3 million was agreed to support the design and development of a third Menai bridge crossing, yet we're all still here, and the third bridge still has not been built. Anglesey, like many parts of Wales, desperately needs construction to start to reduce congestion. What about projects that require agreements between a number of stakeholders, such as the Chepstow bypass? Is the Deputy Minister going to allow such discussions to explore the feasibility of the project to go ahead or are they subject to his freeze as well?

Presiding Officer, more than two decades of Labour Governments have failed to tackle congestion on our roads, and the poor standards of the public transport of Wales are here for all to see. From what I have gathered, there is no integration or concrete plan in place between the Welsh Government's policy and delivery. I don't doubt their intention for a single second, but I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel, and none of the Ministers has convinced me otherwise. Frankly, I feel like the Welsh Government prefers to explore road taxes and fines for hard-working people in order to disincentivise the use of private vehicles. It is, therefore, time for a new direction, and that is why I am standing in front of you all today to propose the motion. Thank you. 

I'm very pleased to take part in this important debate today. Of course, in the part of Wales that I represent, we've been having a debate over the balance between roads, public transport and active travel for quite some time, in terms of the congestion on the M4 around Newport and many other roads besides. We now have the work of the Burns commission and the delivery unit in place to take forward necessary improvements.

Personally, I think that if we can make for a much better public transport system and offer through the work of the Burns commission, then we will relieve these congestion problems on the roads around Newport. It won't be easy, that's for sure—it never is, in terms of behavioural change and modal shift in transport—but the challenges of climate change and the environment, I think, make it crystal clear that there is no alternative but to make that shift. The work of the Burns commission will be important in enabling us to do that in this part of south-east Wales.

I'm very pleased that the Welsh Government has now removed the protected route for the M4 relief road, because I know that is crucial in terms of the protection that the Gwent levels need and for sustainable development on those Gwent levels. I'm very pleased to be chairing a working group that's looking at how we take forward community development, environmental protection and biodiversity on those very precious levels. Some really good work has been done by the Living Levels partnership, and that will have a legacy for the future. It has really built a good base of community activity on the levels, working with the local authorities, Natural Resources Wales and business. That will stand us in good stead as we take forward the work that will produce the sustainable legacy that will be so important for the future.

Of course, it's not just the Gwent levels that are crucial in terms of what we need to see in terms of challenging the damage that's been done to our climate and our environment. Lots of local issues have come to the fore in terms of air pollution, and that's so crucial to public health. We need, again, to see that modal shift if we are going to really improve the quality of our air for health and environmental benefit around Newport. That's why I am very, very pleased that the Welsh Government has committed the funding that it has to active travel, because that's a really important part of the overall equation, in terms of improving air quality and meeting these challenges of modal shift.

I know that many aspects of Welsh Government policy are driving in the right direction around this. One aspect of that is the default 20 mph speed limit for our inner urban roads, because, again, that will enable us to get traffic off the road, to improve road safety, to get more people cycling and walking, and, indeed, more children playing outside their homes and more elderly people walking. Because they can do that with greater safety, it then really creates greater community engagement and community spirit for the benefit of everyone.

I really want to see the delivery unit, now set up underneath the Burns commission, driving forward with their recommendations with some good early action; to see the active travel investment being realised locally; to see those 20 mph speed limits in place as quickly as possible. And if we can do all of that and, you know, indeed, much more besides, we will be making the sort of progress that we need to see in Wales if we are serious about meeting the challenges of climate change: tackling air pollution; creating a better environment; dealing with congestion on our roads and enabling people to get to where they need to be more quickly, safely and efficiently. Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd.

I'm pleased to be part of this debate today. I know it's a debate that many people may not want us to have, certainly some, perhaps, colleagues opposite in the Chamber, but it is an important one. I'll focus, probably, on point 2 more of the motion, and that's the Welsh Government's decision to pause all new road improvement schemes. I think there's a great fear that 'pause' is a false word; it's actually 'stopping', and that's the great concern: will some of these things be re-ignited when further assessed?

I do feel that the Government is possibly shooting itself in the foot here by pulling away from future infrastructure investment, which is needed so importantly to underpin their own aspirations around climate change. It makes no sense to take away the infrastructure, as Natasha shared, which will enable us to move to a different way of travelling in the future, with more electric and alternative-fuelled vehicles. I think an example of where investment into new roads is justified was also mentioned—that's Chepstow bypass. Many people will know that the Hardwick Hill element of the A48, as it travels up through Chepstow, is probably now one of the most polluted roads in the whole of Wales, and that's driven by many vehicles accessing the motorway from Gloucestershire. It's a terrible, terrible situation there that needs to be dealt with. An investment into a bypass would actually help the green agenda, would turn Chepstow into a place that could become a green town. So, we shouldn't pull the plug on things like that, which is a new project, and I'm pleased with the support the Welsh Government has provided in that regard to date. Don't let some of this thinking stop progress on those key areas.

Indeed, I could argue the same to the M4. I know that debate's getting worn out in many people's views, but it is crucially important. I've been sitting on that most weeks now, as I come here, and even at a 50 mph speed limit, it is still getting quite congested. In fact, I'm seeing levels of traffic moving to the levels of pre COVID. Indeed, I've even been in the tunnels moving slowly and I'm breathing the fumes within those tunnels in my own car. Heck knows what would happen if we were stopped in those tunnels. You know, again, this is where infrastructure, investment in infrastructure, can enable these things to happen. Everybody agrees with the need for enhanced public service or investment in active travel. I, indeed, ride an electric bike; I would love to be able to cycle lots of places, but the reality is, we are years away from being able to replace highways with alternative modes of travel. And, indeed, these things could sit alongside each other, but we really just have to be thinking very carefully about how we're going to move forward.

So, I would encourage the Welsh Government to think strongly about those messages around that decision to pause road improvement. It's okay to take stock, but please don't stop very important pieces of infrastructure that are needed to enable our economy to breathe and to match the growing population and the growing need for travel across the county. So, Llywydd, I will be, absolutely, supporting this motion today, and I would encourage others to do so also. Thank you.

There is a touch of the Jekyll and Hyde about this motion, isn't there? On the one hand, I agree entirely with the points about air pollution, the need for more investment in public transport infrastructure, improving electric vehicle charge points and working with bus operators—they're all really important issues. Then, the second and third parts of the motion seem to undercut the first, talking about building the M4 relief road, come what may. Even as Wales prioritises public transport, active travel, electric vehicles, we will still need roads, Llywydd, but why doesn't the motion talk about priority lanes? Why doesn't it mention schemes to adapt roads for buses and trams and electric vehicles and for electric-only highways? This debate could have sparked a discussion about devolving road tax and fuel duty, of devolving the HGV levy so that we could create a replacement eco levy based on road use, local public transport options and emissions. And why doesn't the motion mention low-emission zones in our cities, integrating the network of active travel and public transport, or propose ideas about cycle ways in commuter areas? The Conservatives could have taken this opportunity to advance ideas for facing the crises of the twenty-first century, instead of lumbering us with ideas from the twentieth.  

But the first part of the motion, Llywydd, raises vital concerns about air pollution—that's what I want to focus on. When people talk about roads, or any major infrastructure project, it's normally cloaked in language about powering the future, the journey to tomorrow, but our collective obsession with concrete means that children are the collateral damage. Congestion is said to clog the arteries of our nation, but it also chokes the lungs of our children. It traps us in a future of smog and tarmac. It isn't just an inconvenience, it is a slow-motion killer. Asthma UK and the British Lung Foundation are working with many of us on a campaign to introduce a clean air Act in Wales. The reason we want that Act is because children who grow up near the most polluted streets are five times more likely to have poor lung development. We're living in a time of pandemic, when a respiratory virus has nearly ground the earth to a halt, so we shouldn't ignore that notion. Even short-term exposure can worsen conditions like childhood asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Long-term exposure to nitrogen dioxide is linked to chronic respiratory morbidity—chronic morbidity. They're not terms we should just be bandying about as though they're acceptable or normal, they should fill us all with shame. Nearly 10 per cent of all children who live in Wales are thought to have asthma, and for everyone who lives within 50m of a major road, the risk of developing lung cancer increases by up to 10 per cent.

It gets worse, Llywydd. Air pollution is just as bad for pregnant women as smoking. It increases the risk of premature labour and stillbirth. If a baby is born prematurely, it can mean low birth weight, underdeveloped lungs and can lead to the baby dying shortly after it's born. And studies draw links between car exhaust fumes and miscarriage. One study suggests these exhausts can increase the chance of losing a pregnancy by 16 per cent. Let's not dismiss that out of hand because I've started quoting figures. Those are lives that don't get started. By failing to act on air pollution, we are gambling with the life chances of generations not yet born. We are condemning children to grow up with stunted and underdeveloped lungs. This motion should have ended with the first clause. That is the scandal. We need a clean air Act for Wales, not in the next legislative statement, not in a few months' time, we need it now, and we need it with urgency. 

Gareth Davies. There you go.

Can you hear me now?

Yes. Carry on.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. As a Member of this Parliament representing a north Wales constituency, I know only too well the failings of our transport network. I use that term very loosely, because it's not so much of a network, it's more of a collection of routes. My constituents can travel to Manchester or London easier and quicker than they can get to their own capital city down here in Cardiff. This is not only due to the lack of decent road links, but also a lack of reliable public transport. Businesses in south Wales described the M4 around Newport as a foot on the windpipe of the Welsh economy. For us, up here in north Wales, the A55 has the same effect. For nearly a quarter of a century, Welsh Governments have failed to address the issues, which has led to a rise in congestion. You have failed to ensure people can get around Wales to travel for work or leisure, and have failed to tackle the lack of reliable alternatives to the private vehicle. Without improvements to the A55 to boost capacity and increase linkages across this route, my constituency and the whole of north Wales will continue to be held back economically.

And I regret that this Government has become anti road. We won't address the issues of climate or air quality by scrapping infrastructure improvements. I support the stance taken by Labour parliamentarians Mark Tami and Jack Sargeant, who have condemned the delays to the red route, That decision not only impacts Alyn and Deeside, but affects all constituencies along the A55 corridor, and it adds to the congestion. That, in turn, adds to an increase in greenhouse gas emissions and has a severe impact on air quality. Stop-start traffic emits more particulate matter. Until my constituents have a clean, reliable alternative to the car, they will continue to rely upon personal vehicles to get from A to B, and unless you are proposing to rip up all roads, that'll mean more and more of them sitting in stop-start traffic. Unless we can ensure our road infrastructure can meet the demands placed upon it, our air quality and emissions will continue to deteriorate. The alternative is overcrowded and unreliable public transport. You can't force modal shift if there are no alternative modes of transport.

What we need to accept is the fact that the car is not going to disappear, so we have to make the car greener. It's really regrettable that the Welsh Government have failed to prepare to move to zero-emission vehicles. We have fewer electric charging points across Wales than Wandsworth and Westminster councils put together. Only 60 of our charging points are fast chargers. We have an even worse record when it comes to hydrogen buses or electric trains. We want people to use public transport, of course, yet in my part of the nation, that transport still uses the dirtiest of fossil fuels, diesel. It's time to stop blaming the motorists for the failings of the Welsh Government. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

'Our house is on fire.' That's what Greta Thunberg said. We have a climate emergency, and when we have an emergency, just as we've had with COVID, there are things we can carry on with, and there are some things we have to give up. And this is a bit of a schizophrenic motion, if you don't mind me saying. Whilst I agree with some things in it—I agree about increased electrical charging points, and I agree that we need to be looking at our bus infrastructure. We cannot hear from the Conservatives that one week you're supporting biodiversity and wanting to tackle the climate emergency, and then, on the other hand, you want to build more roads. It just does not make sense at all. We have to give up something, and where we need to go is thinking we come out of our vehicles and we do invest in better public transport. Bus speeds are declining faster than any other mode of transportation. Figures from Stagecoach show a 13 per cent decline in bus speed between 1995 and 2015, resulting in the requirement for an additional six buses per service.

Electric vehicles are great, and we want that, but they're going to replace fuel vehicles, they're not going to be an addition, and, therefore, we don't need new roads. We have to absolutely invest in electric vehicles.

This is what Andrew R.T. Davies said last year in your Conservative conference:

'I passionately believe environmental principles are instinctively Conservative principles, and as advocates of individual responsibility, they go to the very heart of what we believe in.'

I implore you, if you really believe in climate change, if you really believe in biodiversity, then building new roads does not fit with that. So, no more new roads in Wales, and I don't want to build new roads, I want to build bridges. I want to build bridges across this Chamber so that we can all work together to really tackle the climate emergency. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Well, today my Welsh Conservative colleagues and I are calling for many things—they're very sensible options—but, from my perspective, for urgent upgrades to be made to the A55. This is a key arterial route that not only supports the sixth largest roll-on, roll-off port in the UK at Holyhead but also brings goods and trade to my beautiful constituency of Aberconwy.

The issue of poor road conditions and underinvestment in north Wales is, sadly, nothing new. Throughout the fifth Senedd, I campaigned relentlessly to see my local country routes improved and speed limits reduced from 60 mph to protect our rural communities. This would have a beneficial impact of making roads safer, prolonging good road conditions and encouraging active travel. And thank you to Conwy County Borough Council for listening to some calls, and we've now got those areas where some measures have been put in. There's more to do, however. 

But whilst the First Minister advised me that the guidance 'Setting local speed limits in Wales' was to be reviewed from the summer of 2020 onwards, this has not yet come to pass. So, I'm clear that a change from the present reactive strategy towards enforcing proactive policy must still be made. We can no longer wait for accidents to happen before the necessary changes to speed limits are made. So, I would welcome a commitment from the Deputy Minister today that such a speed limit review will be undertaken. 

Now, whilst it is most concerning that this Welsh Labour administration has decided to put the brakes on all new road-building projects, perhaps this will provide an opportunity for Government officials to review the planning stages for all roadworks. At present, works to the A5 near Capel Curig and the A470 through the Conwy valley are causing major and considerable disruption as we head into the summer tourism season. After 15 months of serious challenge to their businesses, this is the very last thing they need. 

Now, our debate rightly highlights that Wales has some of the worst air quality in the UK, with recent research finding that Cardiff and Port Talbot have higher PM10 levels than either Birmingham or Manchester. As well as underlining the need for a clean air Act, this fact also points to a need to support cleaner modes of transport. However, we're still, here in Wales, lagging behind much of the UK when it comes to fast charging points, with only 60 of the 990 Welsh charging points being rapid charging points. And with more than 500,000 electric cars now travelling on our roads, we require an urgent course correction. 

Whilst I welcome the recent funding announcement from Ofgem, which will help Llandudno railway station to meet its EV commitments by looping in a 1,000 kVA transformer to deliver 600 kW of charging stations, the Welsh Government do need to do more to support long-term change. So, I do call on the Minister to outline how she will be working with our housing associations and local authorities to increase EV on-street charging provision for those households without access to a driveway.

Similarly, under Welsh Labour, the number of local bus journeys in Wales has fallen from 100 million a year in 2016-17 to 89 million in 2019-20. So, one way to confront this trend is to promote the green credentials of the industry. Llew Jones International of Llanrwst have recently bought two hybrid vehicles, which will reduce their diesel usage by around 65 per cent. They will also implement the first TrawsCymru route in Conwy, which will have two fully electric vehicles working on an increased timetable between Llandudno and Blaenau Ffestiniog by the end of September. But our bus operators need support too to help make these changes, such as via a specialised fund to help make the needed improvements to their new green vehicles, such as to capacitors and chargers. So, I ask that the Minister make this case at the next Cabinet meeting. 

The sixth Senedd is a time to reset this conversation, to put the vehicle of Government into reverse and undo the years of inaction on congestion, speed limits and climate change. For this reason, I call on everybody in the Siambr today, and on Zoom, to support our debate motion. Diolch. Thank you, Llywydd.

The Deputy Minister for Climate Change to contribute—Lee Waters.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, and I thank Members for their contributions. I was particularly pleased to hear Janet Finch-Saunders say at the conclusion there that, in the sixth Senedd, it's time for us to reset the discussion, and I was very encouraged two weeks ago when I heard Janet Finch-Saunders say that the publication of the Climate Change Committee report

'is a serious wake-up call for Wales', and I was also encouraged when I heard her say a week ago that

'rhetoric must now be met with bold and decisive action' when she called for us to declare a nature emergency.

I've been reading about this thing called cognitive dissonance, which is a psychological concept where two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, and that's what I've heard in the Chamber this afternoon from the Conservatives. We've had two weeks of hot air proclaiming their green credentials in calling for bold action on climate change, in tackling the biodiversity and nature crisis, and speech after speech with the same old rubbish of the same old policies that have led us to the situation that we're in today. [Interruption.] There is a contradiction between calling for different actions to achieve different outcomes and then calling for us to keep investing money in projects that embed carbon in them, and, through increasing traffic, generate existing carbon not just for us, but for the future generations they're saying to stand up for.

Now, clearly, looking at their faces, there is incomprehension at what I'm saying, and this is—[Interruption.] If we are genuine about resetting the conversation in this Senedd, which we must if we're going to reach the Climate Change Committee targets of doubling the amount of emissions reductions in the next 10 years that we've achieved over the last whole 30 years, we have to do it across this Chamber. It's no good giving speeches for easy headlines, but when it comes to the first action we have to do to put that rhetoric into action we turn instead to these glib contributions about doing the same thing, and decrying us for letting down motorists and letting down people. This is just bunkum, and I'm afraid the Conservatives need to confront this, as do all parties in this Chamber. There are contradictions on all sides here. The general reaction to my announcement of pausing road-building schemes has been: 'We agree with the principle, except for the road scheme in our constituency.' And I can understand that as a constituency Member myself, and there are road schemes in my constituency that have strong support, and it is a difficult political message to say to people, 'We need to pause and reflect.'

Now, I do understand the concerns that there are, and I want to put on the record that the roads review that we have announced does not mean we're ending road investment in Wales. The review will consider how we can move away from spending money on projects that encourage more people to drive and spend more money on maintaining our roads and investing in real alternatives that give people a meaningful choice. And that's the important word: a choice. This isn't about ramming anything down anyone's throat or forcing people to do anything; it's about giving people a realistic alternative, which we can't do when we keep pouring investment into schemes that generate additional carbon emissions. And I'll be publishing the panel members and the terms of reference shortly, where further details will be available. For now, I can add that, with regard to individual schemes, the review panel will be developing its own review criteria and making an initial report to Ministers within three months of its appointment on the road investment projects in scope of the review.

We are doing a series of things already. The publication of our Wales transport strategy earlier this year set out that we now have a clear goal of increasing modes by sustainable transport from a third to 45 per cent of journeys by 2040. And the investment has to follow that, and it stands to reason that if we're going to spend more money on maintaining roads, spending more money on public transport, spending more money on active travel, that means we have to spend less money on schemes that generate additional carbon emissions.

A number of Conservative speakers said—and Gareth Davies I think said this—that we are scrapping infrastructure investments. We're doing no such thing. We're investing in infrastructure that encourages people to reduce their carbon emissions. So, this is not scrapping any infrastructure investments. We are shifting the emphasis, but we're doing it on the basis of evidence, and that's what the review needs to do and that's why it needs to take its time to do it. It needs to look at what carbon headroom we have within the climate change targets that, two weeks ago, we all supported. Now, supporting the principle involves supporting the practice, so we need an analysis of what carbon headroom we have for transport, with 17 per cent of the contributors of carbon emissions to play with, and what role roads have within that carbon headroom. And it may well be as a result of that there'll be cases for roads that are there to tackle air quality, for example—that the road is the right solution. We're not starting from a position that it's not. And in that case, we can go ahead with road schemes that have other benefits, but we can't go ahead with every road scheme and hit our carbon emissions target. It stands to reason, and it requires a shift of thinking.

Now, the other thing worth mentioning is the investment we are putting into public transport. We've announced a £17 million grant to Blaenau Gwent council to put four trains an hour on the Ebbw Vale line, as part of implementing the Burns recommendations. Those 58 recommendations were set out to show how a modern public transport system could reduce congestion in Newport, tackle the problems that the M4 was designed to do for half the price, in a way that reduces emissions and helps social justice—which spending £2 billion on a road scheme does not do, when you take into account that a quarter of people don't have a car.

We're also in Newport extending the on-demand Fflecsi bus service across the whole city as a model for developing that right across Wales, and we also have a set of proposals for rural Wales, where these problems are different and require a different approach, but we know from several international examples that it's entirely possible to allow modal shift to happen in rural areas. I do think that car clubs and electric car clubs have a really important part to play in that. We don't need to own multiple cars per household if there is a flexible alternative available for communities to use, and this year we are spending £8 million through the £38 million ultra-low emission vehicle transformation fund for councils to roll out additional EV charge points this financial year.

So, we're already committed to doing a lot, but we need to do far more to hit the targets that we've all committed to doing, and the roads review has an important part to play in that. But Members across this Chamber need to come to terms with the fact it is no good signing up to targets unless you're prepared to follow up the action required to implement those targets. Diolch.

Samuel Kurtz to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Llywydd. In summing up this debate, I first of all want to thank all my colleagues for the important and interesting contributions that they've made, and commend my colleague from south-east Wales for leading this debate. I thank the Deputy Minister for his response.

An effective, co-ordinated and integrated transport infrastructure is what the people of Wales not only deserve, but what they need to reach their potential. A criticism often levelled at the Welsh Government is that too much attention is focused on urban Wales, leaving rural Wales behind, and I feel this is especially true when it comes to transport. We've seen today that a lack of transport infrastructure is a concern that attacks us here in north Wales, south Wales, mid Wales, and me in west Wales too.

As mentioned, the Deputy Minister a fortnight ago brought forward a statement to the Senedd pausing a number of road projects, bringing disappointment to many communities across Wales. I agree with my colleague Peter Fox—when I hear 'pause', I believe it a byword for 'cancelled', and should these projects actually get the green light and go ahead, then they'll inevitably be delayed.

However, I was pleased to receive reassurance about the long-awaited upgrade to the A40 at Llanddewi Velfrey, and that this will go ahead. This is a scheme that has been discussed for a number of years, and has been beset by countless delays. I look forward to finding out when the diggers have broken the ground on this project and it being fully completed. Obviously, I and the business community would rather see the A40 dualled all the way to Fishguard port, something that I know my colleague Paul Davies in Preseli Pembrokeshire has long called for and championed. But these current upgrades on the A40 will alleviate some of the pinchpoints on this route brought about by transcontinental HGVs, caravans, agricultural vehicles and other slow-moving traffic travelling on a single carriageway.

I do need to express some concerns over the letter that was sent by the future generations commissioner to the Deputy Minister and received by all Members, which not only welcomed the pausing of the aforementioned projects, but also called for further consideration to be given to reconsidering projects that were given the go-ahead. Deputy Minister, enough uncertainty is already about—please do not allow more to be created.

The car isn't going anywhere, but what is changing is the way that it is powered, and this is a point that my colleague Delyth Jewell and Gareth Davies both made in their contributions. We are on a journey, as the whole of the United Kingdom, of removing our reliance on fossil fuels, but we need to ensure that all four corners of Wales are supported on this journey. We still have a long way to go, and the Welsh Government need to ensure that the same focus is applied to ensuring that rural areas have the same access to electrical vehicle charging infrastructure as they do in main urban areas. And in terms of the clean air Act that Delyth Jewell mentioned and the Deputy Minister mentioned, there is support from all corners of this Chamber and, Deputy Minister, you will be pushing at an open door should the Welsh Government bring forward that clean air Bill.

I would finally like to mention also how important it is for public transport to serve the needs of a rural community. The Welsh Government are keen to remove cars from the road, and many in areas such as the constituency I represent are not in a position to own a car. This presents problems if they work outside the normal nine-to-five working hours, especially in industries such as the hospitality sector. I was recently informed that the last bus leaving Tenby back to Haverfordwest in Pembrokeshire on a weekday evening was just after 6 p.m. That does not allow people to contribute and build themselves up in our economy. Some larger businesses are able to provide transport for their own staff, but this is often the exception rather than the rule. This can be seen as a contributing factor to businesses within the sector facing increasing challenges in filling the job vacancies that we've all heard about in our own constituencies. 

In closing, Llywydd, I urge Members to support the motion to give our economy a shot of adrenalin by lifting the foot off our economic windpipe, to help clean our air and to get Wales moving once again. Diolch.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.]

Yes, there is an objection.

And therefore I defer voting on this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 12.18, we will suspend the meeting to prepare for voting time.

Plenary was suspended at 17:31.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:37, with the Llywydd in the Chair.