Item 5, Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv) on small businesses and tourism. I call on Hefin David to move the motion.

Motion NDM7744 Hefin David, John Griffiths, Delyth Jewell

Supported by Carolyn Thomas, Paul Davies, Peredur Owen Griffiths, Rhun ap Iorwerth, Sarah Murphy, Vikki Howells

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the significant role played by small businesses in sustaining local economies throughout the coronavirus pandemic by adapting to unprecedented circumstances.

2. Notes the importance of local small businesses, particularly those in the tourism and associated sectors, as we recover from the pandemic and start to re-build our communities and local economies.

3. Further notes the strong encouragement from the Welsh Government for people to holiday in Wales this year and enjoy its many attractions and sites of outstanding natural beauty.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to work with representatives of the small business and tourism community to promote Wales as a sustainable tourism destination year-round. 

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to work with the same stakeholders in order to integrate both sectors into its economic strategy and COVID-19 recovery plans in the sixth Senedd term to ensure that both are adequately supported and have the necessary resilience to sustain any future shocks. 

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Excellent Welsh, by the way. 

So is yours.

I don't know whether I'm delighted or disappointed that I see from the voting advice from the whips that the Welsh Government is voting in favour of our motion today. I think I'd probably be a bit worried if they changed their minds at the end of the debate. The aim of the debate today is to hear Members' views. I want to try and open this up and hear Members' views on this key issue as we talk about rebuilding and recovering from the pandemic. I'd be interested to hear Members' views from across the Chamber, so I haven't written a closing speech; I'm going to try and summarise the key things that are said through the debate. 

What I'd like to focus on in opening, though, is particularly the role of small businesses in supply chains, and the role that they can play in recovery. I'd like to look at the role and nature of the foundational tourism sector, and particularly some of the less-remembered parts of that. You can imagine where they are, given that I've tabled this debate. I want to thank everyone who signed up to it as well. I'd like to look at the consequences of easing restrictions, which I think is topical given what's happened this week in the UK, and what will happen next week from the Welsh Government when they announce on Wednesday, and the implications of a tourism levy I would like to consider.  

On the nature and the role of the small business, I think we often misunderstand the role of small businesses. They aren't engines of employment. In fact, the number of small businesses relative to population size is fairly static over time. I think we've got something like 6 million small businesses in the UK at this point in time—heading towards 6 million—and of those, the vast majority of them, more than half, employ fewer than 10 people. So, we cannot expect small businesses to be this engine of employment. I hear people say small businesses are the lifeblood of the economy, but, actually, they are a fairly foundational part of the economy. They exist, but they don't provide an engine of rapid growth. They provide stability. They used to say in the 1970s that if every small business takes on an extra employee, the unemployment problem would be solved. Well, if that was going to happen, it would have happened by now, and it just isn't going to happen. But neither is employment the sole objective, because we know about in-work poverty too. 

I think one of the key things that small businesses have is social capital. It's one of the key options they've got when it comes to the alternative to employment. Social capital is key because that is where the creative spark happens, when people interact. That's where businesses that are sustainable are created. When people have interactions with their family and friends, that's called bonding social capital. That's when small businesses find their feet and find their foundation. But the growth of small businesses happens through bridging social capital. That's when we talk to other small businesses, other networks. My concern about the pandemic is that it has shrunk networks right down in a way that will take a long time to rebuild. So, rebuilding those business networks over time is really, really important. I would like to see that as a key part of the Welsh Government's economic strategy, not only creating business but creating business networks. I think if businesses are to grow and succeed, that will be absolutely key.

It won't just be the SMEs on their own in the tourism sector itself that will enable us to recover; we aren't naive enough to think that that is simply going to be enough. We need to see the tourism sector play a part in the recovery, and a bigger role than it did pre pandemic. I think that is important. We often think of tourism as being the seaside in Wales, the Brecon Beacons, Yr Wyddfa, Snowdonia. We see those as the key tourism areas. But you will know that the south Wales Valleys—and I can that see the Minister, Dawn Bowden, will agree—have a huge amount to offer. Our community in Caerphilly borough has a huge amount to offer, and I think it's underplayed as a tourism venue. We talk about day trips to Caerphilly castle, but it's so much more than that. There is so much more that Caerphilly has to offer. I met the Minister at Caerphilly castle—when was it, three weeks ago—and we were welcoming £5 million of Welsh Government investment that Cadw is going to put into Caerphilly castle to transform the castle as a venue next year. But what we also want to see is the streetscapes improved, we want to see the tourism trail improved, because those social networks that small businesses rely on are also dependent upon the society in which they operate. Therefore, it's not just about improving one venue, but improving the environment as a whole. 

We've also got Llancaiach Fawr seventeenth century manor house. That was actually brought into operation by my father when he was chair of the planning committee of Rhymney Valley District Council in 1982, and I can prove it to you. If you don't believe me—I see that the frontbench is looking sceptical—I can prove it to you, because there's a plaque there with his name on it. And if the Deputy Minister wants to come and visit, I'll show her the plaque as well, although it could do with a clean if the Welsh Government's got some money for that. We've also got Penallta park and we've got Parc Cwm Darran. We've got the Welsh national mining memorial and gardens in Senghenydd. That is well worth a visit, and I know it's had royal visits from the Prince of Wales in the past; I've seen the signature in the visitors book. We've also got Cwmcarn forest and scenic drive; that's actually in Rhianon Passmore's constituency, but she wouldn't forgive me if I didn't mention that. We've got golf courses such as Bryn Meadows and Bargoed. We've got accommodation like Llechwen Hall. Murray's pub in Bargoed is pretty amazing, and the Aber Hotel is now serving food. I have to say these things because I've seen them, they exist and they're amazing. And also, by the way, if you want to treat yourself to a spa, you can go to Pwllypant Captiva spa, reflexology provided by Emma Burns Complementary Therapies, or to Lisa Morgan Beauty at the Caerphilly Miners Centre.

So, we are looking at the challenges—[Interruption.] This is all going on Facebook; you are right. We are thinking about the challenges that we are facing in our communities as a result of COVID. One of the things that somebody said to me on my Facebook page when I told them about the announcement in England not applying to Wales was, 'I have very large groups of friends now booking hotels and travelling to England. I also have plenty of friends in London who are now travelling for holidays in Devon and Cornwall. Welsh tourism will not get any bookings under the current restrictions. Jobs will be lost sadly'. Well, I did a search. Actually, it's incredibly difficult to find somewhere to stay in Wales this summer. People are holidaying at home, and I don't think this year we have to worry about the tourism sector not having visitors. 

I want to say something about the relaxation of rules as well. Polls show that the majority of us don't want the rules to be relaxed too radically, particularly with regard to masks. There is a very real danger that the majority of us will stay away from hospitality venues when mask wearing is no longer compulsory. This would have a damaging effect on the tourism sector. I'd be interested to hear what the Conservatives would say about that. But I think there are consequences, and I would like the Government to consider that in part of their review next week. I know it's about clinical evidence and I know it's exactly about what the medical officer says, but there will be consequences of withdrawing compulsory mask wearing that may be unintended by the Prime Minister.

Finally, I'd like to mention the tourism levy, because undoubtedly I'm sure the Conservatives are going to mention this, and I'd like to hear what Plaid Cymru have as a view on this too. I am supportive, actually, of a tourism levy in the way that it's being proposed via local authorities by the Welsh Government. But we do need, Minister, more clarity on the purpose of the levy, as it's been said that it won't be hypothecated. So, how will that work? How is the proposed levy going to work? The Federation of Small Businesses has told us that the Welsh Government needs to recognise the caution and concern of many in the sector about the proposal. We wouldn't want to see it threaten viability, but at the same time, I've already mentioned the street scene in Caerphilly. If Caerphilly council had an extra source of funding to resolve some of those issues that can be directly targeted towards tourism, I think that would be something we should welcome. As a result, I think a tourism levy, if properly done, is not going to damage tourism. It might actually enhance tourism in that sense. But I think what we really want is more detail about that. I think we need to hear how that is going to be done. I notice Adam Price said in 2017 that it was an idea that deserved to be explored. So, I would like to know Plaid Cymru's position, and I'm more than happy to hear more from the Conservatives about why it shouldn't be done. Perhaps I'll come back to it, then, in my summing up at the end.

Finally, a key part of our motion is about stakeholders, and I think you need, in a recovery that's going to work, the voice of small businesses playing a part in what comes next. The tourism sector has a huge voice in what they want to see. I would be concerned if this year we are seeing a boom that is followed by, next year, a bust, when everybody decides to go abroad again. I think tourism venues have to be careful, because if they're overpricing this year they will put people off next year, but at the same time we also need to look at the consequences of an inflated market this year that is then reduced next year. I wonder what the Welsh Government's strategy is to deal with that issue. How are they planning ahead, not for 2021, but 2022, and what stakeholders will they speak to in order to resolve that issue and plan for that cyclical eventuality?

So, it's over to you—over to Members. I want to hear what's going to be said today. I'm going to make furious notes, and hopefully I will do justice to what has been said at the end of the debate.

I welcome this debate today and the opportunity to talk about the role of small businesses in sustaining local economies. As the Member for Caerphilly has said, small businesses are at the heart of our villages and towns, and in areas like my own constituency, those small businesses are part of a dominant tourism and hospitality sector. Unfortunately, the pandemic hit many of those businesses hard, and while some were able to weather the storm, others were not so fortunate. I appreciate that the Welsh Government has provided support to businesses, and that support has been gratefully received by businesses in Pembrokeshire. However, for many, this funding did not go far enough to cover the loss of revenue throughout the pandemic. I'm also aware that many businesses fell through the cracks and were unable to access support quickly, threatening the sustainability of their businesses. 

During the pandemic, I hosted a series of virtual local tourism forums, along with my local MP, to hear from businesses about the challenges that they were facing, and they made it pretty clear that what they needed most from the Welsh Government was support and, indeed, clarity. Many felt like the Welsh Government simply wasn't listening to them and that Government policies and regulations were being made without a thought for the impact they would have on smaller businesses.

Now, today's motion calls on the Welsh Government to work with the small business and tourism sectors to integrate both sectors into its economic strategy and COVID-19 recovery plans, and it's vital that the Welsh Government does just that. Our economic strategy needs to focus on sustaining and developing our tourism industry as one of the nationally significant foundations of our economy. We are rich in heritage, language, seascapes, countryside, sports and castles, and with so many businesses reliant on tourism, we should never underestimate how important it is for us in Wales. Those businesses that are part of our tourism sector are heavily reliant on other industries, such as hospitality, farming and food production as well as the development of town centres, particularly in rural and coastal areas. We can't underestimate the importance of road developments, public transport links and investment in those town centres to maintain and keep these attractive to visitors.

I agree with stakeholders like the Federation of Small Businesses that Ministers need to work with industry to establish what a recovery from the pandemic looks like and how the future will be shaped, not just as a response to COVID, but because all our futures are dependent on a strong economy underpinned by small businesses as the lifeblood of our communities. 

Now, the motion recognises the Welsh Government's push for people to holiday in Wales this year and support our domestic tourism sector. As the Welsh Government focuses on promoting staycations within Wales, it's vital that Ministers work with representatives of the small business and tourism community to promote Wales as a sustainable tourism destination all year round. To fully recognise the potential of our tourism offer, there has to be collaboration with the sector. Unfortunately, instead of that, the Welsh Government's programme for government outlined plans to consult on legislation permitting local authorities to raise a tourism levy, despite the detrimental impact that that tax will have on the sector. Now, the Member for Caerphilly, at the outset of this debate, asked us to express a view on a possible tourism tax. Well, he probably won't be surprised to hear that I oppose a tourism tax; it's something that businesses in Pembrokeshire are against and I agree with them that this could have a devastating impact on the sector at a time when it's trying to stabilise following the pandemic.

Now, we have an opportunity, post pandemic, to be innovative in how we support small businesses and in particular start-ups, and perhaps the Minister will tell us in responding to this debate what the Welsh Government's plans are in relation to start-ups in existing sectors like tourism and hospitality, which are vital to us as a country.

Earlier this year, Professor Dylan Jones-Evans observed that emerging from the pandemic

'there is an opportunity to build a new Wales that is driven by home-grown, innovative and entrepreneurial businesses that have social and environmental ideals at the heart of everything they do.'

Of course, he's absolutely right: the Welsh Government must take advantage of the upswing in entrepreneurial activity and encourage business start-ups as a way to drive economic recovery. Wales needs new strategies and ideas to support new businesses and it also needs a strategy that seeks to grow our economy by recognising the importance of small businesses and the Welsh Government must come up with that new thinking now.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the tourism economy supports around 16,000 full-time jobs and brings in £585 million to Pembrokeshire alone, and it's an interconnected sector that supports our farming, hospitality and creative industries. And right at the heart of those figures are small businesses, therefore, we must remind ourselves just how important small businesses are to our local economies in terms of providing vital jobs and developing local supply chains and I urge Members to support this motion. 

The point has already been made in this debate that when we think of the tourism industry, we tend to focus mainly on our coastlines, our mountains and our national parks. However, Wales is blessed with so many beautiful hidden places, perhaps; jewels that shimmer under the surface and deserve to attract more visitors.

We've already also heard in this debate about how vital it is to help the tourism industry—a sector that's facing three winters, as the FSB has reminded us. A quarter of the businesses in this sector in Wales lost over 80 per cent of their normal revenue in 2020, so it's clear that we need a strategy to aid the recovery of these businesses.

But, I would like to see part of that strategy focusing on helping small businesses in regions such as the south east, which is trying to attract visitors to our delightful and vibrant communities; a strategy that helps hostels that provide services to those who walk or cycle along the Taff trail; a strategy that assists the restaurants and tea rooms that overlook our glorious castles and scenery, and that supports the groups that celebrate our industrial heritage—this point has already been made by Hefin—with the pitheads, the viaducts, and the majestic masonry that was once so glorious.

I would like to see that strategy clarify how it will work with local groups and with small businesses that are embedded in their communities, that promote awareness of Welsh traditions and that use local supply chains and local produce. We have an opportunity here to showcase more local produce and to support so many small supply chains that have suffered so much as a result of Brexit and the pandemic.

Any discussion on post-COVID recovery should find ways to empower our communities—perhaps through a levy; yes, we have to consider that—and to foster ethical tourism, which doesn't just use our scenery as a backdrop only for events that could be happening anywhere. This is tourism that does not exacerbate our climate and nature emergencies.

For the benefit of employers and our communities, I very much hope that the strategy stemming from all of this reflects the points that I have raised. More people will be going on holiday closer to home this year, and they are likely to encounter the most magnificent aspects of our glorious nation anew. Let us find a way of ensuring that people can always feel that same sense of wonder when they visit us in Wales, and that they can learn about our fascinating stories.

Thank you, Hefin, for proposing this debate. Inspired by you, I'd like to tell you about the wonders available in Cardiff Central; for example, the treasures available for free at our national museum in Cathays Park, much of it there thanks to the ingenuity, love of art and entrepreneurial attitude of the Davies sisters. Their extraordinary collection of impressionist paintings, bequeathed to the nation, is one of the most important collections of impressionists outside London.

Cardiff castle is free to enter for residents of Cardiff. Bute park contains wonderful herbaceous borders, as well as a fantastic bike and walking route along the Taff, all the way to Caerphilly castle.

So, it is most unfortunate that many families who live a mere bus ride away from these wonderful attractions never visit them. It is one of the definitions of poverty that people never leave the confines of their own communities. I know that the national museum is doing a lot of work to broaden the number and diversity of their visitors to both the national museum and the prize-winning St Fagans, and its other assets. But, many people still don't know how to get there, and we have to recognise that people living in poverty are restrained by the cost of public transport for a family day out.

According to the most recent Office for National Statistics figures, about a quarter of all households across Britain cannot afford one week's annual holiday, and the figure for Wales alone is likely to be higher because the level of deprivation is higher in Wales. So, we need to bear that in mind, this year of all years, when there are such opportunities for the Welsh tourism business, to ensure that we are endeavouring to do the maximum possible, so that everybody gets some sort of a holiday after what has been the most challenging 16 months that all of us have ever experienced.

I agree, absolutely: we need sustainable all-round tourism so that greater numbers of people who are not locked into school holidays can enjoy Wales's many sites of outstanding natural beauty, which are with us all year round. Edwards Coaches, I know, do a fantastic job of getting people who don't have the means of transport to go places on their own, and that's a really valuable service valued by many, particularly older people who don't wish to go places by car. But if we all go to Barry Island when the sun shines, all we'll get is a traffic jam. So, it's really important that we support people like Natural Resources Wales, Snowdonia National Park and Brecon Beacons National Park, to ensure that we are encouraging people to go to the lesser-known places and everybody's not trying to go up Snowdon, and we've seen some of the appalling sights that happened in Easter last year.

So, given the strong encouragement from the Welsh Government for people to holiday in Wales this year, I'd just like to probe what loans are available to expand the capacity to accommodate people in Wales, given that, for most people, endeavouring to book a B&B or a hotel is completely outside their possibilities, what loans might be available. For example, for farmers who might want to build toilets and showers to enable them to offer camping to families who live in our cities, or other businesses who might want to expand their caravanning provision and need to ensure that it meets the requirements for public health restrictions. So, I think it's a really important debate, but, I think, we really, really do need to realise that holidays are such an important part of people's well-being, and for probably a quarter of our households, it is something completely beyond their reach.

Thank you, Mr Hefin David, for submitting today's debate. As we all know, and has been outlined already, the tourism industry is vital to Wales's economic prosperity. For me in north Wales and for the region I represent, it employs around 40,000 people, contributes around £3.5 billion a year to the local economy and, as such, it's really welcome, the cross-party focus and support for the sector here this afternoon.

It is worth reflecting that the pressures in this sector from the COVID-19 pandemic haven't gone away and they are still there. I mean, it was this time last year when there were real pressures in the sector. And we're talking about nearly 100 per cent of businesses within the tourism and hospitality sector having to close for a prolonged period of time, with around 80 per cent of staff being furloughed. So, whilst it's been mentioned, the positives around seeing a boom here this summer, that is off the back of a very, very difficult time for the sector, and that can't be dismissed quickly. And, as the motion states, now is the time for Welsh Government to work with representatives of the small business and tourism community to promote Wales as a tourism destination all year round. Because holidaying abroad, as we know, is unclear at the moment and not easy to achieve, I suppose. It's a big opportunity now to make Wales a destination, and, as we know, once you go somewhere on holiday, you're very likely to repeat going there. So, attracting a new audience, a new group of customers into Wales, is a huge opportunity over this summer and years to come.

On the year-round point—and I thank the Member for including that within the motion today—because I think that's one of the key strategic items that should be explored, because that is what's going to make the sector and industry more sustainable throughout Wales. And, indeed, Members have taken the opportunity to mention some of the tourism businesses in their patch, and I'll mention a couple that I went to recently. It was really good to see the Penderyn whisky distillery open up in Llandudno, which I'm sure Members would appreciate a visit to from time to time, but that is an indoor attraction in a seaside resort, which actually allows an all-year-round visitor attraction. Similarly, Surf Snowdonia or Adventure Parc Snowdonia down the Conwy valley—I had the privilege of opening their new hotel, the Hilton hotel, there, alongside their indoor adrenaline activities. It's an all-year-round experience, which will make that business and the whole sector more sustainable. So, I think that's a real key point that the Member has brought forward today, and I welcome and appreciate the Government support for those businesses as well.

The other part that is worth mentioning—and I certainly welcome Welsh Government's support on, in collaboration with the UK Government—is work on the economic ambition board in north Wales, because, within that, for example, there's a tourism academy proposed to be built. The skills needed in the tourism sector are really important, because, if we upskill that sector, we'll create better jobs and better quality tourism attractions, which then, in turn, creates a stronger economy for that sector. So, I think they're the two big strategic areas that I would ask the Member, in his furious note taking, to put under the strategic section.

Under the immediate areas, I'm not going to comment on a tourism tax, because I'm sure you're quite clear on the position on this side of the Chamber, but I think there are three quick points that I'll make that would make an immediate impact to the sector. The first is a real clear road map through the summer and beyond for those businesses, because they need to plan as long as possible into the future. The second is a review of the social-distancing measures, because actually that particular regulation in Wales is making things less competitive compared to other countries within the United Kingdom. And the third is that there is a desperate need for support in recruitment into the industry at the moment. Many of those businesses are struggling to recruit staff, and, if there are actions that Welsh Government could take to support that, that would be welcome.

So, just to bring things to a conclusion, it is a vitally important sector for us here in Wales. I am delighted, of course—a quick plug here—to hold the inaugural meeting of the cross-party group on tourism tomorrow. So, all those Members, I'm sure it's in your diary; I look forward to seeing you there tomorrow afternoon. There are huge opportunities for us to take over the coming months to support the tourism sector, see growth, but also see some sustainable growth as well through those key strategic items that I mentioned as well. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Can I begin by thanking Hefin David for bringing this important debate to the Senedd today? And I know a number of Members have used it to highlight wonderful tourism destinations in their constituencies and regions; you'll be pleased to know I won't be doing that. I will not even mention Aberavon seafront in an attempt to curry favour with the Dirprwy Lywydd in my region. [Laughter.] Wouldn't dream of it.

In particular, the tourism and hospitality industry has been one of the worst hit since the pandemic struck, and I'd like to welcome the unprecedented levels of support given to the industry by both Welsh and UK Governments. Tourism and hospitality are arguably the sectors of our economy that have suffered the most over the last 18 months or so, having either severe differences or adaptations placed upon the sector, or being forced to closed entirely. The mere fact that some of them are still standing and operating today is testament to the resilience of those small business owners, their staff and the sector as a whole, and, as has already been discussed, we know how important the hospitality sector is to the Welsh economy.

Pre pandemic, the sector employed, either directly or indirectly, some 174,000 people, and added around £3.6 billion to Wales's GVA. This makes hospitality one of the largest employers in Wales, accounting for around 10 per cent of the national workforce. We also know that this is a sector that has disproportionately benefited from the UK Government's furlough scheme. But the most recent Wales tourism barometer highlighted the welcome news that some 69 per cent of operators are in some way confident they can run their business profitably for the remainder of the year, but that confidence isn't consistent across the sector. So, despite the economy starting to reopen, some businesses are still struggling as a consequence of continued restrictions. For example, the majority—62 per cent—of businesses in the tourism sector are operating at less than full capacity, had fewer visitors than normal, and whilst about 40 per cent of businesses that had taken advance bookings into 2021 have more than normal at this point of the year, this promise is not shared amongst all sectors. So, amongst serviced accommodation, only 60 per cent of available capacity has been booked, compared to 90 per cent in the self-catering sector.

So, this summer, above all summers, should be the summer of the staycation in the UK and across Wales, and, while I share Hefin David's optimism for the sector in 2021, it's a summer of opportunity and challenges for the sector, because there are sectors still struggling with visitor numbers. Pubs and cafes operated with 63 per cent fewer visitors than usual during the May half term, and activity providers operated at 82 per cent fewer visitors than usual.

The pandemic has further emphasised the reliance on tourism and the hospitality sector as well as other small businesses to support jobs and local economies in Welsh communities. However, many of these jobs continue to be at risk, despite the economy beginning to reopen. Research undertaken by the Learning and Work Institute found that nearly one in five jobs in Wales are in shut-down sectors, most often travel, tourism, hospitality and non-essential retail, which are the ones that have been most impacted by the COVID-19 restrictions. According to the Development Bank of Wales, around 21 per cent of Welsh SMEs had temporarily closed or paused trading during the pandemic, with most of these, again, being in leisure and hospitality, whilst a third of SMEs had either no cash reserves, or cash flow remaining for just three months.

So, with all this in mind, the question remains: what can we do to support the sector that is both, as we know, so vital to the Welsh economy, but has also faced significant disruption at the same time? Whilst grants and Government support packages by both Governments have been very, very welcome, most businesses in this area I've spoken to don't want to rely on these grants forever. So, one of the things the Welsh Government could consider in its next review is to look at if it's within the leverage available to them to look at lowering the 2m social distancing requirement to the 1m plus rule, as is already the case in England and Scotland. This would likely go further than any financial measures offered to businesses and allow them to be able to operate safely, but also as close to normal as possible. Because, as our vaccination drive in Wales and across the UK continues, we need to ask ourselves, 'Well, if not now, when?' A small change like this would make a huge difference to a sector that has struggled over the past 18 months.

While I'm aware that there are other industries that have been affected by the COVID pandemic, it's often tourism and hospitality that are the ones that have seen the most severe impacts, and I hope that there's a key recovery plan to help the industry thrive, not only this summer, but in 2022 and beyond.

I call on the Minister for Economy, Vaughan Gething.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I want to thank Members for their contributions and for the opportunity to respond, and thank Hefin David for bringing the subject today, and I think he should be pleased and positive that the Government will vote in favour of the motion. [Interruption.] I know. [Laughter.]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, our aim has been and continues to be to support individuals, businesses and communities, and that's informed both our emergency response, but also our approach to economic recovery. The Welsh Government has recognised the fundamental role of Welsh small and medium-sized enterprises and the foundational economy and its impact on the well-being of the nation long before the COVID crisis. There are large parts of this sector that could not be shut down, as they provide the infrastructure of everyday life and serve essential, daily household needs.

The new programme for government commits us to build on our approach to improving and supporting the foundational economy, so we will continue to provide support for businesses through Business Wales and to develop a backing local firms fund to help support local businesses, and to see that carried through in different areas of Government activity—in particular, how we look to deliver procurement spend.

Now, I have always been clear in understanding that small and medium-sized businesses are a hugely important sector within the Welsh economy, and I recognise Hefin David's regular comment that we should not refer to them as the lifeblood of the Welsh economy, and the figures that he's regularly quoted over a period of time, and newer Members will get used to that. But they're not only important in their number, they're also critical to the way that our economy and local communities operate, and I should just say lots of conversation here has been about small and medium-sized businesses in villages and towns. That's important, but I can say, as someone who represents a large part of the capital city, they're a hugely important part of life within our cities as well. It's a relevant part of everyday life.

Now, we've regularly talked about the fact that, since the start of the pandemic, the Welsh Government has provided more than £2.5 billion of support for businesses, and that's deliberately been designed to complement the support provided by the UK Government. With that support, we've been able to safeguard hundreds of thousands of jobs right across our economy, and I'm proud of what the Welsh Government has done over the course of devolution, but particularly when we really have been tested like no other time before over the last 18 months or so.

Now, as we look towards economic recovery, we now have to consider how we make our services, including the support we provide through Business Wales, sharper and more tailored to the needs of firms and companies the length and breadth of Wales. And we certainly need to ensure that our businesses are prepared and supported as we continue the journey of having left the European Union and emerge from the COVID pandemic. There is a particular need, including for small and medium-sized businesses, to look at businesses that import and export and how we support them with the very real challenges in the friction in trade that has now been introduced. 

Our relationship with the business community through the pandemic has been vital, together with trade unions, and the provision of a strong social partnership. And I'm proud of the fact that we will build on that, moving forward, within this term. And like my predecessor before me, I do value the opportunity to regularly engage with our social partners, and we do listen to the concerns and share early Welsh Government thinking. We do hear from time to time that people aren't listened to or are ignored, and yet we have regular contact and engagement with representative groups within those sectors. But, of course, that means that we can't talk to every single individual business. But, whenever I talk to business organisations, they themselves say that relationships with the Government and with broader partners have never been as good, because of the way the pandemic has forced us together. Now that, coupled with the proactive fair work agenda of this Government, I think demonstrates how far ahead of the pack we are in our partnership thinking. 

Now, much of this debate has obviously focused on tourism and hospitality businesses and the role they play in our current economic picture and the future. And we don't underestimate how challenging the pandemic has been for this sector and how it continues to be a real challenge, even now. That's why over £54 million in support to date has been provided to help firms survive. It's also why, with the help of the sector, the Welsh Government, with Visit Wales, has developed a tourism and hospitality recovery plan. 

Now, I recognise that many people, as has been said today, are looking forward to a holiday after the past year and—bearing in mind what Jenny Rathbone has said—that many people can't afford to physically go away. With the continuing uncertainties that have been talked about with foreign travel, we have said and made it clear that this is the year to take a holiday at home and to enjoy what Wales has to offer—in the coast, the country and in our towns and cities too. 

Now, we do recognise and we've often talked about the caution that's still needed with the Delta variant despite our successful vaccination programme, but we have now moved away from what we were talking about previously, about 'Visit Wales. Later'; we now have a proactive approach in wanting people to come on holiday in Wales, but to do so safely. That's why we've asked people to take part in the Addo campaign, to be responsible tourists in any and every part of Wales that they visit. And I would encourage again people to support local businesses who have been hit hard by the pandemic and to think about the choices that each of us make. 

Now, again, we heard from lots of people in this debate about all that Wales has to offer, and I welcome what Hefin David had to say in trying to rival Huw Irranca's previous effort to mention lots of different actors within his constituency and across the wider Caerphilly county borough. And I also recognise the fact that many attractions are open within towns and cities as well. And Jenny Rathbone gave examples of some of those within the capital. I also recognise the challenge in seeing people outside the immediate vicinity of where they live. It's something I recognise as a constituency Member. When I go to east Cardiff, I meet many families who don't come into the centre of Cardiff or, indeed, into Cardiff Bay and so don't take up what we have on offer locally. 

I have, though, had the pleasure in this job of visiting a range of attractions, including Zip World—you may have seen the pictures—but also in the holiday that I've taken already this year on the Llŷn peninsula and last year when I went to Criccieth as well. Now, it really does show that there are visitor attractions that are open and they're safe—responsible owners, but also we need to be responsible in the way that we use them. 

Now, I want to focus on that reconstruction mission, and that's why we're developing that recovery plan to take forward in 'Let's Shape the Future', which was published in March. Many of the interventions covered in the plan are already being delivered, but of course I'm aware that there's been real change even since that time. But we're very clear, as the motion sets out, there are three Ss in this: seasonality—the year-round offer—to increase the spend of people who come to Wales, but also the spread of what's on offer as well. And that plan is being reviewed to ensure it continues to be aligned with the new programme for government. 

And that will include taking forward the programme for government proposals and the manifesto commitments for a tourism levy to be explored. There will be a consultation on it to understand how it could be used flexibly to support investment by local authorities in their local tourist infrastructure.

I should say, in finishing, that I'm very grateful for the invaluable contributions of our key stakeholders in the wider sector in helping to shape this important recovery plan moving forward, and I look forward to continuing to work with them. Our ambition remains to create an economy that works for everyone, grounded in our values of progressive change, to move forward in a spirit of co-operation and our shared interest.

No Members have indicated that they wish to make an intervention. I therefore call on Hefin David to reply to the debate.

It's a good job I know the Minister well enough not to be offended by some of the jibes he made in his speech just then. I'll come to the things he said in a second, but I just wanted to make a comment about Delyth Jewell's contribution, because I think we were born in the same hospital, we went to school in the same town and I currently live in the place where she grew up, and also, you may have noticed, we also contested the same seat at the Senedd election. So, you can understand why we've also got the same views when it comes to tourism in our community here about South Wales East—about South Wales East, but Caerphilly as well—and she's talked about 80 per cent of normal revenue being lost during the pandemic. The concern I've got, I think, was reflecting what I said, that there is a danger that that cost is being passed on to the consumer in the immediate period ahead and that might have a detrimental effect when we talk about year-round delivery. So, there is a concern there. And I'm not blaming anyone, by the way; it's a natural market mechanism that you would expect that to happen, and I think as a social democrat, I would expect the Government to intervene when that market mechanism is not working, and I think that is the challenge. I don't think the Minister quite got to that in his speech, but I think that is the challenge, that we could see a detrimental consequence in the autumn of 2021 and 2022, and I think that was recognised by Delyth Jewell.

And then if I come to the statements made by the three Conservatives, Paul Davies, Sam Rowlands and Tom Giffard, it was really good to hear, and I'd say to Sam and Tom as well what excellent contributions you are making as new Members, and I know from experience how difficult it is, particularly the first time, to get up and speak. It gets easier with time, but I can see that you've taken to it very, very well.

One of the things that I don't think was answered by the Conservatives, though, was why the opposition to a tourism levy is so strong. So, Paul Davies said in his contribution that he thinks it could have a devastating impact, but I don't think he explained why, because there are models around the world where a tourism levy actually works, and I think the Government and I'd say the Minister's response was fairly light—I think he'd agree himself—was fairly light in his response, and that was perhaps because you said that a consultation is ongoing and it will be flexible in its introduction. So, I think that's still being formulated, and I suspect therefore there is still a bridge to be built between outright opposition and the introduction, and I'd like to see how that bridge is going to be built and resolved.

And just to come to Sam Rowlands's comments. Three things, he said: a road map for the summer—I completely understand that; review social distance measures, and supporting recruitment. Perhaps one day we'll hear a bit more, soon, about supporting recruitment, but particularly about reviewing social distancing measures, I highlighted in my speech the possible counter-consequences that we haven't fully understood yet, that if you remove social distancing measures completely and people don't feel safe in those venues, they're just as likely to stay away. So, I think we must find a balance there between the clinical advice and the safety and that economic situation and living with COVID. And I'll be honest with you, I don't think the UK Government's got it right, and the Welsh Government will find out next week whether they are getting it right or not, and I think that announcement next Wednesday is important.

And Jenny Rathbone, your contribution was actually very moving. When you talk about families—a quarter of families, I think you said—can't afford venue-destination holidays, and that's because the venues are so expensive, but also because of public transport, and also because poverty locks people in their communities. I think it's also a cultural and social problem as well, that you don't look beyond your communities. I've seen it myself, that you don't look beyond your communities and you spend almost all your time in your community. I think it would be a great psychological release to be able to recognise those things that are relatively easy to get to and be able to visit, but also the idea of supporting diversification and the delivery of low-cost venues for those people who would then be able to afford it—that would be a very good idea. Bluestone would be out of the price range of the people you're talking about, but there are opportunities to develop lower cost versions that haven't been developed yet. I think that's a really important point. One of the things I've noticed is that you've only got to go on Facebook and you can see people in my community using the community anew, and the free stuff that's around: Penallta country park, visiting Llancaiach Fawr—it's amazing, Llancaiach Fawr, by the way, it's well worth a visit—and there are opportunities there to do that.

So, I think there are clear divisions in the Chamber, particularly on the tourism tax and on the relieving of social distancing measures. I think the Government still has more to say, I think, about 2021, autumn 2021 and 2022. I still think that there's more to be said, and I think the Government is still working it out is the answer to some of the thin responses the Minister gave, and particularly with that tourism levy. But nonetheless, let's use this as a positive opportunity now to try and find some common ground, and hopefully find the answers to these questions we've raised in this debate.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No, the motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

We'll now suspend proceedings to allow changeovers in the Chamber. If you're leaving the Chamber, please do so promptly. The bell will be rung two minutes before proceedings restart. Any Members who are arriving after a changeover should wait until then before entering the Chamber. 

Plenary was suspended at 16:36.

The Senedd reconvened at 16:48, with the Llywydd in the Chair.