The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1, 2, 4 and 5 in the name of Darren Millar, and amendment 3 in the name of Lesley Griffiths. If amendment 3 is agreed, amendments 4 and 5 will be deselected.

The next item is the Plaid Cymru debate on universal credit. I call on Sioned Williams to move the motion.

Motion NDM7772 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Opposes the UK Government's proposal to scrap the £20 uplift in universal credit, which has been a vital helpline for families in Wales during the pandemic.

2. Recognises that a higher proportion of families in Wales will be affected by the cut to universal credit than the UK average according to the Bevan Foundation.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) pursue the devolution of welfare in order to tackle poverty in Wales.

b) publish a robust and meaningful plan to tackle poverty that contains clear performance targets and indications to measure progress.

c) maintain flexibility around the discretionary assistance fund in order to mitigate the impact of any universal credit reduction on people in Wales.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to open this important debate on behalf of Plaid Cymru, and I'd like to ask my fellow Members to seriously consider voting in favour of our motion this afternoon.

In responding to Adam Price's question here yesterday, we heard the First Minister talking about people's right in Wales to be treated in a way that is fair and compassionate. For those of us who sit in the Senedd, we disagree on many things, but I hope, and I believe, that we are agreed that there is a fundamental principle that unites us, namely that the people of Wales deserve to live with dignity, with support when it is needed, with sufficient funds to support them. I urge you to keep this principle above everything else and keep it in mind during today's debate, above your party political allegiance, and that we as a Senedd show that we can agree on a motion that would announce this clearly and ambiguously for the people of Wales. Universal credit is supposed to support those on the lowest incomes, who are out of work or who can't work. The universal credit payment was uplifted by £20 by the UK Government in response to the COVID crisis, and despite that increase being extended once, it will be cut now at the beginning of October. That, as well as the cut to working tax credit, will create a dangerous pressure on families in Wales. We must oppose this decision, this unwise decision.

The duty of this Senedd and of this Government, as I stated at the beginning, is to best serve the interests of the people of Wales. The end of the universal credit uplift will be disastrous for people all across the United Kingdom, but families in Wales will be hit harder, and a significantly higher proportion of families with children in Wales will be affected than some other areas. Anti-poverty and social justice campaigners and we as a party have warned of a perfect storm. The furlough scheme ends just a week before the cut takes effect. Living costs are forecast to rise over the coming months, meaning that vulnerable families will see their incomes fall just as the cost of living increases. And household debt is rocketing, according to a new report by the Bevan Foundation published just today. 

The statistics speak for themselves. In total, over 275,000 families claim universal credit or working tax credits in Wales—more than one in five of all families. The majority of families claiming these benefits are families with children, and 42 per cent of all families with children claim one of these benefits. Fourteen per cent of all families without children claim universal credit or working tax credits. Geographically speaking, more than a quarter of families with children will be affected in every Welsh constituency; in some constituencies, half of families with children will be affected by this cut in the uplift. 

The Conservative Westminster Government's Secretary of State for Work and Pensions justified the reduction on the grounds that it would help get people back into work. However, the Wales Trades Union Congress suggests that more than a third of those hit in Wales will be working families, many of which include key workers. Let that sink in. The decision on universal credit, of course, rests in the hands of Westminster, but we in Wales must act, as our people are plunged into deeper poverty and debt, and hundreds of millions of pounds are taken out of our local economies as a result. 

The Welsh Government needs to push for the devolution of powers over welfare to Wales—[Interruption.]—to do more to mitigate the worst effects of the universal credit cut—. No, I won't give way. Yesterday, in answer to Adam Price's question on this matter, the First Minister suggested he would wait for the Welsh Affairs Committee to report, following its current inquiry into the benefits system in Wales and the devolution of welfare. I have been a Member of this Senedd for only four months, and I've already heard too many times, 'Let's wait and see. We're looking at it'. 

When crisis befalls us, we must act. If we've learnt anything from the last months, it is surely that, and there is no denying, given the statistics I have shared, that this is a crisis of awful proportions, which, this time, we know is coming. To really get to grips with poverty, an improved strategic approach is needed. Today, we are calling on the Welsh Government to publish a robust and meaningful plan to tackle poverty that contains clear performance targets and indications to measure progress. Having discussed with a range of groups working in the field of social justice, it's clear to me that we need better focused and more co-ordinated action by Welsh Government to end the worst persistent effects of poverty. There is talk of good intentions, but also of a frustrating duplication of initiatives and a lack of clear direction, because, with no clear strategy and no measurable targets, the result can sometimes an ineffective, scattergun approach, which is sometimes also an unfair and unjust postcode lottery. 

One way that the Welsh Government could mitigate the effects of the universal credit cut is to maintain the flexibility of the discretionary assistance fund—the national fund that provides small funding grants for vital living costs and support for one to live independently. The scheme was changed at the beginning of the pandemic to enable more people to claim financial assistance if they faced exceptional hardship as a result of lockdowns, self-isolation, or lost income as a result of other restrictions imposed.

The number of grants awarded through the DAF has decreased dramatically recently because of the Welsh Government's decision to get rid of the flexibility that made it easier for people to receive that support. The DAF is a vital source of support for thousands of families, and considering the impact of the cut to universal credit and the entire context that I have outlined this afternoon, we encourage the Welsh Government to continue with that additional flexibility to access the fund beyond the end of September, and we ask Members from all parties to support that call.

I referred earlier to the fact that I am a new Member of this Senedd. The most important thing that I have learned to date is that hearing the voice of the people who are impacted by policy is vital, and ignoring their experience is unforgivable. The numerous reports that have been published on the disastrous impact of the cut to universal credit quote a number of people who will have to make such impossible decisions. In one by Save the Children Cymru, Stacey, a mother from Newport, said that the cut is going to impact her ability to pay her debts, that she is concerned how, as the winter approaches, she'll have to cut down on food to pay for heating, and we know that energy prices are increasing. Her daughter has just started gymnastics lessons. They are £5 a go, and she doesn't know whether she'll be able to continue with those. I call upon all of you to support our motion and, by doing so, support families such as Stacey's. Thank you.

Before I move on, can I remind Members that we are able to intervene today, and there is the right to intervene, but there's also the right of the individual Member who is speaking to either accept or reject the intervention, and no criticism of that Member should be made as to making that decision?

I have selected the five amendments to the motion. If amendment 3 is agreed, amendments 4 and 5 will be deselected. I call on Mark Isherwood to move amendments 1, 2, 4 and 5 in the name of Darren Millar.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

Delete point 1 and replace with: 

Welcomes the UK Government's decision to provide an extra £20 per week in universal credit to support those on low incomes during the coronavirus pandemic and recognises that this temporary measure has already been extended from 12 to 18 months. 

Amendment 2—Darren Millar

Delete point 2 and replace with:

Regrets that poverty levels in Wales are higher than in other parts of the UK due to the failure of successive Welsh Governments.

Amendment 4—Darren Millar

Delete sub-point 3 a and replace with:

a. work with the UK Government to tackle poverty in Wales, by maximising the opportunities presented by funding opportunities and regional growth deals across Wales;

Amendment 5—Darren Millar

Delete everything after 'fund' in sub-point 3(c).

Amendments 1, 2, 4 and 5 moved.

Diolch. Well, I move amendments 1, 2, 4 and 5. The agility and flexibility of the universal credit system allowed a temporary uplift to be implemented at the start of the pandemic, in extraordinary times. In April 2020, as a one-year response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the universal credit standard allowance received a temporary uplift of £20 a week. In his March 2021 budget, the UK Chancellor announced an extension of this temporary uplift for a further six months. As with all the extra support provided by the UK Government in response to COVID-19, this was always time limited, although the core benefit remained protected. This extension plus a one-off payment of £500 to working tax credit claimants, also announced, were expected to cost £3 billion. The UK Chancellor also announced that universal credit advances would not need to be repaid for 24 months from April 2021—a 12-month extension—that the maximum universal credit reduction rate would fall to 25 per cent come April 2021, and that the higher surplus earnings threshold for universal credit would remain at £2,500 until April 2022.

As we faced one of the greatest economic and social challenges in our history, the UK Government delivered a £407 billion support package, including a £9 billion injection into our welfare system. But now, as we move to the next phase of our recovery, it is right to prioritise supporting more people in work and to progress in work. This builds on the 1.7 per cent increase in the working age benefits that came into effect in April 2020, benefiting around 2.5 million households, delivering one of the most comprehensive economic responses in the world during the pandemic.

The support for families, jobs and businesses provided by the UK Government over this year and last includes protecting around 14 million jobs through the furlough and self-employed schemes, and a £30 billion plan for jobs, boosting the national living wage by 2.2 per cent from April 2021, and an additional £740 million to the Welsh Government for 2021-22 through the Barnett formula, plus a further £1.4 billion the devolved Governments will receive outside the Barnett formula. With UK job vacancies reaching 1 million and payrolls rebounding to pre-pandemic levels, extending the uplift even by a further 12 months would be premature and cost the equivalent of adding 1p on the basic rate of income tax—

Will you take an intervention?

—in addition to a 3p increase on fuel duty. 

Mark, will you take an intervention?

Sorry, I missed that. Yes, certainly, Joyce.

Thank you for taking the intervention. Do you agree that the UK Government have rightly identified that the amount of money that people are receiving on universal credit isn't sufficient, and that is why they actually increased it by £20 a week, so that those people could just survive? Do you also agree, if you agree with that, that it is a really wrong move and a bad move to remove it now when people need it the most?

What I agree with is that it was a temporary uplift introduced in response to COVID-19 and extended beyond the original promised date.

Today, welfare spending will still be £241 billion in 2021-22, with over £111 billion on working age welfare, or 4.9 per cent of GDP. Universal credit provides a safety net, but is not designed to trap people in welfare. Unfortunately, however, as our amendment 2 states, poverty levels in Wales are higher than in other parts of the UK due to the failure of successive Welsh Governments, responsible for measures to promote prosperity and tackle poverty in Wales for over 22 years. 

As the Joseph Rowntree Foundation reported last year, Wales has retained the highest poverty rate of all the UK nations throughout devolution since 1999, and has the lowest GVA prosperity levels of any UK nation. Further, their 'Poverty in Wales 2020' report last November found that Wales still has lower pay for people in every sector than the rest of the UK and that, even before coronavirus, almost a quarter of people in Wales were in poverty, living precarious and insecure lives. And as the Bevan Foundation also stated, poverty was a significant problem in Wales long before the arrival of COVID-19. This is despite the billions received and spent by successive Welsh Governments, which was supposed to tackle the prosperity gap.

By June this year, the Welsh Government had received an additional £8.6 billion from the UK Government since the start of the pandemic. As Audit Wales states, it allocated £5.1 billion to the COVID-19 response in 2020-21, and the Welsh Government has at least an additional £2.6 billion available in 2021-22. That report was published this week. This money needs to be invested in building back better, lifting people out of poverty, preventing them from spending—

Can the Member come to a conclusion now, please?

Pardon?

Can you come to a conclusion now?

—a life dependent on welfare, whilst maintaining flexibility around the discretionary assistance fund. Diolch.

I call on the Minister for Social Justice to formally move amendment 3, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths.

Amendment 3—Lesley Griffiths

Delete point 3 and replace with:

3. Notes the income maximisation work done by the Welsh Government to support families on low incomes

4. Urges the Welsh Government to:

a) continue to explore the case for the devolution of the administration of welfare; and

b) maintain the current flexibility around the discretionary assistance fund to mitigate the impact of any universal credit reduction and the ending of furlough on people in Wales.

Amendment 3 moved.

Formally. 

Thank you. Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you very much. I was very grateful that all members of the Equality and Social Justice Committee supported the request for me to sign a joint letter to Thérèse Coffey as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, which went from all the Chairs of the committees responsible for social justice in the four Parliaments of the UK. And I'm aware that a similar joint letter has been sent by the Minister for Social Justice with her counterparts from the other devolved Governments. 

What is most extraordinary about this cruel cut is it is opposed by no less than six former Conservative Secretaries of State for Work and Pensions. So, I think it's a very uncomfortable task for Members of the Conservative Party on the benches opposite to be arguing that this is a credible idea. Indeed, a majority of Conservative voters, according to a recent poll, are opposed to this cut because they seem to fully understand, in a way that Rishi Sunak does not, that this is coming at the time of a perfect storm. Not only is it the time when the furlough support is being withdrawn, but it is also in the week, this week, when we have seen a massive increase in the energy prices, and a hike in what is the cap that can be paid. There's a particularly massive hike in the amount of money that can be charged to people who are paying on the meter for their electricity and gas, who are themselves the very poorest people, because that is why they are having to have a more expensive access to electricity prices. In addition to that, this week, we have seen the impact of COVID on families who need to buy childcare. Far too many parents are having to simply work in order to pay for childcare in order to keep their job, and we can see how this is a perfect storm.

It seems to me a completely impossible idea that it is being argued by the Government that this was a temporary measure and we're now going back to business as usual, because there is no such thing as business as usual: we are still in a pandemic and people are still in precarious work, and meanwhile, prices are going up for a combination of reasons, including the legacy of leaving the European Union and the impact it's having on food supplies and food prices. It seems to me unbelievably difficult to in any way justify this cut at this particular time after 10 years of having failed to put up benefit rises in line with prices, and with wages. So, the very poorest people, including the poorest people in work, are going to have to pay for other people to have to pay fewer taxes. And it is an incredible situation.

So, I think what we have to debate now is what we can actually do about this ourselves, because we cannot influence Rishi Sunak; we do not know whether there'll be a last-minute change of heart, but it seems unlikely, given that they've now marked 1 October as the date on which this cut will come in, and have actually written to recipients to tell them that. So, I think the people who will be hit hardest will have to end up having to choose whether they eat or heat, or they will have to choose whether to eat and heat but not pay other bills like council tax bills, which in turn will impact on local authorities who will be unable to pick up the revenue that they can normally expect to get from council tax. So, it is a complete perfect storm and very, very difficult to see how we can mitigate the impact of this very cruel cut.

What's £20 a week? It's not that much, surely? That's what some of the billionaires in Westminster have implied, but £20 adds up to £1,040 a year: a huge amount for families for whom the pandemic is far from over. And this cut, as we've heard, will happen a week after the furlough scheme is likely to end and at a time when living costs are set to rise. We've heard the term a number of times already, 'a perfect storm', well, it's a perfect storm when the roof has blown off. And Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm using terms like this, 'pandemic', 'furlough': they should be anchor points that remind us that we are not living in normal times; we're living in a time of global crisis and that global crisis has every day catastrophic effects on people living in poverty—'catastrophic' in its true sense: sudden changes, things being turned upside down.

And in the midst of this crisis, when all the pieces of people's lives are being held in this precarious balance, a vital piece is taken away, an uplift that was meant to keep people in balance gets knocked out, and like a Jenga tower, like a pack of cards, it can all come tumbling down, because that is the lie, isn't it, at the heart of our benefit system. It's not about ending poverty; it's about keeping things in an impossible balance: a system that pushes families into debt before they get their first payment, ensuring they're behind before they start, forcing them to barely get by, forever struggle, never feel comfortable or at ease, holding up a house of paper and cards.

More than 61,000 families in south-east Wales will be affected by this cut. In Merthyr, Torfaen and Newport East, more than a quarter of all families will be affected. Sixty-one thousand families. Let's not dismiss that statistic—61,290 families, to be precise, will lose money that is helping them to live, and anyone who says that people receiving universal credit can afford to lose this money must have a fundamental misunderstanding of how poverty works. Twenty pounds a week can be the difference that means that children have full bellies, that means that families can keep the heating on, but it also means that children can have books, pocket money, and that they're able to go on school trips. Because those things shouldn't be luxuries, they shouldn't just be for the well-off children; they should be normal. The cut will be self-defeating. At a time when Governments want to kick start our economy, taking £286 million from the pockets of people who would spend it locally is economically futile at best. It is a benefit cut imposed on Wales without any mandate.

The UK benefits system we have is far from universal in its benefit. It is not a credit to our society; it isolates people, it sets them apart and seeks to degrade them. The impact of this cut, £20 a week, will be measured in cortisol and calamity. The mental health impact of poverty, of sudden shocks to incomes, of insecurity and panic, are well documented. Relationships will be strained, debts and loans will rise and anxiety will be felt every day by those families—those thousands of families that will be going through life with that little bit more difficulty, going without those few things more, those vital things that none of us would ever deprive ourselves of. Not a house of cards anymore, but a glass that will shatter any illusion of fairness in how universal credit operates.

I'll end, Dirprwy Lywydd, with a challenge for the Welsh Government. We've had Westminster Tories in control of welfare for over a decade, and we need urgency in changing things. This cut will come into effect in less than a month. Plaid Cymru has proposed a Welsh child payment, learning from Scotland, where low-income families with children under six receive a £10-a-week payment. I understand this will soon be doubled and extended. Wouldn't now be an ideal time to introduce a similar policy in Wales? The time to help these families is now.

I'm very grateful to Plaid Cymru for introducing the motion today, and it's very important that we discuss this, isn't it? The coronavirus has demonstrated to all of us how important it is to have that social support. It's vital in ensuring that we succeed together, that every individual and every household succeeds. Our communities can't, and our economy can't, prosper following the coronavirus unless individuals and their families across Wales also prosper. The decision made by the Conservatives to withdraw £1 million this year from the pockets of the households that are most vulnerable not only is neglectful, but is cruel. The Conservatives should feel ashamed about the decision made by their Government.

Just as people begin to hope that we can move forward from the worst of the coronavirus, the UK Government is ripping support from right under the feet of people in incredibly precarious positions. The Prime Minister's claim that he wants people to live by their own efforts rather than welfare shows how out of touch he really is. Almost half of those receiving universal credit are already in work, and with many having young families, this cut will leave parents and their children behind, despite their best efforts. It will hit more than 3,500 households in Powys alone, more than 14,000 people, many of which will be households with children.

Let's be clear. This will push people into homelessness. This will force families to foodbanks. This will see people in cold houses over the winter. People will be pushed deeper into poverty, with all of the implications that has for people's health and well-being. It is shameful. And nobody in this place should be resting on their laurels. In Wales, more than 200,000 children live in poverty, around 30 per cent of our children here, a higher proportion than anywhere else in the UK. In the year to March 2021, more than 54,000 children received food parcels. That's one food parcel every 10 minutes for a whole year.

I cannot support the Conservative amendments. They fail yet again to recognise that the £20 uplift only scratches the surface of what an adequate social security system should offer our citizens. Not only that, but their amendments also fail to recognise the role that the UK Government welfare reform, particularly cuts since 2017, have played in driving child poverty. And whilst I recognise the work of the Welsh Government, families cannot survive on a steady-as-she-goes approach from Cathays Park. It's a haunting reality of modern Wales that so many children are robbed of their childhood, their freedom and their hope for the future. We must go further and faster. 

I'll finish on this. We don't just need a compassionate welfare system that treats people with dignity; we need a whole rewrite of a social security system that enables people to thrive, not barely survive. So, I'll finish on this: the Government has one opportunity to get a pilot of universal basic income right. The evidence around the benefits of providing—[Interruption.]

Will the Member take an intervention? 

No, I won't—cash payments is overwhelming, and I'd urge the First Minister to work with those of us who are trying to campaign for a universal basic income to establish a more comprehensive pilot than is currently being proposed. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Jane Dodds was entirely right—cruel is the word, and I think we have to accept today that it's not the fault of people living in poverty that they are living in poverty. I think we have to accept that £20 per week hasn't resolved the issue of poverty. Seeing people smiling and laughing infuriates me when I know about the stories behind these statistics; when I get phone calls from people who are in work, and as Sioned Williams said in opening the debate, people who are key workers and can't afford to feed their children. I'm sorry, I am just infuriated in seeing people not truly understanding the poverty in our communities, and the solutions that we have to work together on, because if we don't accept that there is a problem, then how on earth are we going to resolve this? How are we going to change people's lives? 

Sixty-five thousand, two hundred and thirty families will be impacted by the cut in universal credit in the region I represent, namely South Wales Central. The Bevan Foundation has estimated that large sums will be lost from local economies in constituencies in the region. The losses are as follows: in Cardiff Central, the loss will be £8.4 million, Cardiff North, £5.2 million, Cardiff South and Penarth £13.2 million, Cardiff West £10.5 million, Cynon Valley £7.6 million, Pontypridd £6.1 million, Rhondda losing £7.8 million, and the Vale of Glamorgan losing £8.6 million. The total losses therefore are £67.4 million, which is a huge sum only in South Wales Central.

My region and its constituencies has suffered economically and socially for decades. During the pandemic, Rhondda Cynon Taf suffered most deaths per capita than any other region within the UK, and it continues to suffer high rates of COVID spread. They've also experienced the worst of climate change in Wales, suffering destructive flooding. As well as this, the region suffers from poorer health than other regions in Wales. People are dying earlier. More people suffer food insecurity and are reliant on foodbanks, and child poverty levels are the worst in the UK, if not Europe. [Interruption.] Well, and the Conservatives, sorry. If you're going to challenge Government, then both Governments are as guilty as each other. 

The uplift of £20 has been a saving grace for the people of South Wales Central, but wasn't a solution. It has allowed more families to afford to live, to feed their children, to clothe them, to pay for electricity, light, heat, crucial broadband connections, and has mitigated some but not all of the worst impacts of the pandemic. The Welsh Government must do everything within its power to urge the UK Government to overturn its cruel decision on universal credit. It must do everything within its devolved powers to mitigate the impact of poverty in South Wales Central and across the whole of Wales.

We need a strategy to tackle and to end poverty—a robust and considered proposal to tackle poverty that includes clear performance targets and indicators to measure progress. And, of course, there are a whole host of other policies that we can bring into power that will make a difference, including expanding eligibility for free school meals to all children in poverty, or all children in Wales, as we would like to see, and the Government must maintain the flexibility of the discretionary assistance fund to mitigate the impact of the reduction in universal credit in Wales.

Time and time again, the people of South Wales Central have been let down by consecutive Labour and Conservative Governments in the UK Parliament, and by the Labour Government here in Wales. Enough is enough. We need more than empty words from both Governments. We need action. Let's take that first step today.

In my constituency of Bridgend, over 6,000 households rely on universal credit, and there are 4,375 children living in homes where their parents rely on this support. There is no denying that if we cut the £20 from these household budgets every week, it will have a huge impact. It is the difference between being able to pay your bills, buy new school shoes for your children, or putting food on the table. In fact, cutting the £20 will mean that one in four people will very likely need to skip a meal, and one in five would very likely be unable to heat their homes this winter. And 40 per cent of the affected people in Bridgend are in work. They are in key jobs, like teaching assistants, nurses, supermarket workers—working, but being pushed closer to poverty.

For a nurse in Bridgend, this cruel cut will mean losing £1,159 a year. For our social workers in Bridgend, working with vulnerable children, it will mean £1,108. A teaching assistant, helping young people with their learning, could be £1,040 worse off. And Labour is clear: whether in Westminster or in the Senedd, we are opposed to this cut, which will hit hardest those who can least afford it. I am pleased that we're having this debate today, that we're able to give a voice to the people who are being ignored by the UK Government, that we're able to give a voice to the people who can't do it for themselves. I am pleased that we are making people face up—anybody who supports this, to actually face up—and look at these statistics and who it's going to be impacting across all of our constituencies. You have to look them in the face when this happens. I'm glad that we're having this debate, because Labour MPs planned to use their scheduled opposition debate on 8 September to press the UK Government to cancel the cut to universal credit. However, the UK Government pulled this just a day before it was due to take place. And what came instead? A debate and vote on Boris Johnson's national insurance hike—yet another attack on working people by the Tory UK Government.

Let me end by saying a huge 'thank you' to the millions of campaigners across the country. Even if it doesn't affect them, they have been out there and they have been raising awareness and they have been fighting this universal credit cut. My own fellow Unite the Union members, community members, were on the steps of the Senedd today, joining us in demanding that the UK Government don't look away. Do not look away from the millions of people that you are pushing further into poverty, when we are still in the middle of a global pandemic.

Thank you very much, Deputy Llywydd, and I urge Members to reject this motion and its baseless criticisms of the UK Government. Cuts to welfare from the Labour Party, Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems show that it's a universal approach rather than universal credit. And it's no surprise, given the news that's come out during the last 24 hours that you're all doing a deal, so it's no surprise really.

The UK Government rightly introduced—[Interruption.] No, I've only just started, Alun. The UK Government rightly introduced a temporary uplift to universal credit during the pandemic. This was always a time-limited measure. Initially put in place for 12 months, it was extended for a further half a year—six months. A measure put in place during a pandemic where thousands of people found themselves out of work. The lockdowns have been lifted and we are now focused on helping the economy bounce back from the chilling financial impacts of COVID control measures. 

The UK Government borrowed vast sums of money during the pandemic to ensure that we could save jobs at the same time as we concentrated on saving lives. UK national debt is now at a staggering £2.2 trillion. Our borrowing has risen from 84 per cent of GDP in the months leading up to the pandemic to a staggering 106 per cent of GDP today. We can't afford to keep up this level of borrowing, particularly when the economy is bouncing back. 

Labour market statistics for September show that not only have the number of workers on the payroll surpassed the pre-pandemic peak, but that wages are up. Office for National Statistics figures for August 2021 indicate that there are now thousands more people in work than there were at the outset of the pandemic. The stats also show that the median monthly pay increased by 6.5 per cent when compared with February 2020. Yesterday, further evidence of the economic recovery emerged as job vacancies hit a record high with more than a million jobs available. 

Unemployment continues to fall. Rather than railing against the removal of temporary welfare measures, the Welsh Government and their little helpers in Plaid and the Lib Dems should focus efforts on tackling poverty by helping people into work and helping those in work to retrain. Our supply chain is nearing collapse because of a lack of HGV drivers, yet long-term unemployment remains stubbornly high in Wales—[Interruption.]

Can I remind Members to give the Member an opportunity to speak and to listen to him speak please?

It would be nice.

Go ahead.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Why is the Welsh Government not working with the sector to provide retraining opportunities? Work is the best way out of poverty and the Government should be doing everything possible to help and encourage people into the workforce. Our nation can't afford to continue borrowing over £5,000 every second. The UK Government are doing what any responsible Government would do by trying to balance the books. The pandemic has cost eye-watering amounts of money, but now that we're over the worst, it's time that we seek to control the cost wherever possible by ending temporary schemes. I therefore call on Members to reject this motion this afternoon. Thank you very much.

I'd like to say that universal credit has never been fit for purpose. It costs more than the previous legacy benefits to deliver because of the bureaucracy of it and helps even fewer people. I think that the proposed cut of the £20 uplift is a kick in the teeth for many of my constituents across north Wales. Forty per cent of those on universal credit are in low-paid jobs, as has previously been said—

Would the Member take an intervention?

No I won't—and they've carried out essential work throughout the pandemic in sectors such as the NHS and social care. Rather than being thanked for this incredible job that they've done during the pandemic, they're about to be hit with £1,000 a year universal credit cut as well as a tax hike. 

In-work poverty and poor working conditions should be resigned to history. Instead, this cut will only make matters worse. I don't know if any Members have tried to get a job recently and seen what's out there, the low pay—[Interruption.]—that's been driving the economy. Low-paid, really poor working conditions—[Interruption.]

Will the Member take an intervention? No.

—and terrible shifts that don't fit in with families. It's not just universal credit that's to be blamed for this either. It's the combined impact of Tory austerity policies, including the bedroom tax and the two-child policy as well. So, now you can only get funding for two children.

In Rhyl alone, 4,000 people will be impacted. This has a knock-on effect on local communities at a time when investment in our communities should be a top priority—

Gareth Davies rose—.

I think the Member has indicated that she will not take an intervention.

Give working class people money in their pockets. Give working class people money in their pockets and they will spend it because they need to spend it. Grow the economy that way. Put money in people's pockets. Rich people conserve it, put it in the banks. Money is supposed to be spent, it's supposed to be part of the economy, to keep the economy going.

The Welsh Labour Government has taken steps to tackle poverty across Wales, expanding the discretionary assistance fund, protecting free school meals and it plans for a trial of the universal basic income, which will be greatly welcomed. Diolch. Thank you.

It's been just an amazing insight into the other benches today. I just want to say one thing. They talked about HGV drivers and training them, well, I just want to say this to you: by the time you've trained an HGV driver, the food will be rotten in the lorry. Just a thought for you to think about, that's all, and I thought it might be useful to help you in that deliberation.

But I want to ask a few questions. We all know that removing a £20-a-week lifeline is cruel, but I want to ask a question: what did the UK Government think the people were spending that £20 a week on, that they no longer need now? Did they think that it might have been for food, for rent, for heating, for clothing for their children? I have to ask this question, because if they did think that that's what people were spending that £20 a week on, why is it that they think they don't need it now? Is it the intention of the Prime Minister, of course, to do what the Tories always do and blame the poor, yet again? And we've seen evidence over here this afternoon—for being poor. Does he recognise that key workers are receiving this very small lifeline? Those key workers that you went outside to clap, those are the people you're taking this £20 a week from. And the Tories do have a good history, of course, of removing things from people. They put the bedroom tax in so that they removed the right for people to have two bedrooms. They failed to give women their pensions on time, but claimed that they did it. They also just last week decided that the wealthy don't need to pay for healthcare, because they put the rise on national insurance. Who is paying that, I ask? But also, the healthcare that that NI rise was intended to cover had absolutely nothing to do with COVID, but had everything to do with 10 years of austerity.

So, you've brought the country to its knees, and now you want to bring people to their knees. But you won't be happy in doing that, of course, because you're going to blame those people—those very people you will be depending on to fill those shelves, once we've trained those HGV drivers, of course, and the food isn't rotten—you'll be taking the money out of their pockets. And the Resolution Foundation has said that those claiming universal credit will have to work nine hours a week to make up for the £20 shortfall. It's a pity that the work and pensions Secretary, who thought it was only two hours, hadn't read that brief first, because she clearly didn't understand that 63 pence in every pound would be reclaimed. She couldn't even do simple maths, for goodness' sake. It's an absolute insult. This is an absolute insult. And to claim that you can't afford it and to actually agree that you can't afford it is somewhat baffling. I notice that Stephen Crabb, today, has come out and said that it is a shameful thing to do. I would be very interested to know whether his colleague, Paul Davies and some of you from this bench agree with that.

I call on the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm really pleased to respond this important debate today, and I do thank Plaid Cymru for bringing it forward. In response to Sioned Williams in her opening speech, when a lifeline like universal credit is under such attack, when those who rely on it are faced with such injustice, we must unite in opposing this entirely voluntary decision by the UK Government.

What is clear, and has been expressed so powerfully in this debate, is that the £20 that so many people needed at the beginning of the pandemic is still needed now. Circumstances have not changed. Harms have become more entrenched. The numbers claiming universal credit, as we all know as Senedd Members, have doubled from 3 million to 6 million from the start of the pandemic. As so many people have said today, those who are affected by this cut are those who need us most, and those who have also played a key part in protecting our country from COVID-19—many key workers.

So, we have repeatedly called on the UK Government, together with Ministers in Scotland and Northern Ireland, to rethink this impending cut. They still can rethink and change to make the £20 a week increase permanent—that's what we have called for—and to extend the payment to people claiming a legacy benefit. Can I thank the members of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, chaired by Jenny Rathbone—all members backing that call, and all of the committees across the UK Government, including the Westminster select committee itself, which also backed this call to make the £20 a week increase permanent?

We asked the UK Government in our letter from the Ministers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to show us their assessment of what impact this cut would have on poverty levels. We have had no response. We reminded the UK Government that this is the single biggest overnight cut to a social security payment since the second world war. The UK Government Ministers know what the impact will be. They have seen the assessments. They have heard the warnings from copious experts, charities and, indeed, the dissent from their own benches.

Members have set out so clearly this afternoon the very real impacts of this entirely voluntary decision. Trussell Trust report that one in four people will very likely need to skip meals. Sarah Murphy expressed this so clearly, warning from that graphic description of the impact that this could have on her people in Bridgend. That is 64,000 people in Wales—one in four. One in five will very likely be unable to afford to heat their homes this winter—61,000 people across Wales.

It will increase poverty levels across Wales, and I am sure that I'm not the only one who has met with the Wales anti-poverty commission, which told me this summer what this would mean. This was their key priority—that I should work, as Minister for Social Justice, to stop this £20 cut. Those were child poverty charities, Citizens Advice, the 'Keep the Lifeline' campaign, registered social landlords—all calling on the UK Government to protect this lifeline.

It will impact on disabled people and those with caring responsibilities. They make up 76,000 people who are registered and respected as not required to work by the DWP—the no requirement group. Also, there is this huge negative economic impact, which has been expressed so clearly today. The Bevan Foundation found that approximately £286 million would be stripped from the Welsh economy.

So, Members have drawn attention to the perfect storm. If just the £20 cut wasn't draconian enough, it's coupled with the end of furlough, the rise in fuel costs, and all living costs rising—and, of course, the recent manifesto-breaking announcement to increase national insurance, a move that their own HMRC said could lead to a breakdown of families on the breadline.

Dirprwy Lywydd, 97,000 people in Wales who receive universal credit are working, as Carolyn Thomas said, in low-paid work, and a hike in national insurance hits those just getting by. So, the warnings and evidence are clear, and thank you to Jane Dodds for stating so clearly that we need that safety net. We must ensure that Government can support and intervene for those who will suffer.

It's a stark reality that even if the £20 payment is maintained—and that's what we call for this afternoon—it will not make up for the income that our poorest households lost because of the severe cuts to their benefit payments introduced by years of welfare cuts. And Joyce Watson actually did refer to Stephen Crabb. He admitted that today—. Under his watch, he admitted he was part of the Tory team that took the decision to freeze benefits that has now, he admits, pushed more workers into poverty.

So, Deputy Llywydd, we know the key levers for tackling poverty, such as powers over tax and welfare, sit with the UK Government, but we know too that people in Wales deserve a truly robust social security system that doesn't force people into further or continuing poverty, and that is why we will also continue to explore the case for the devolution of welfare. This is, obviously, a commitment, and it was discussed yesterday, but it was also a response to the equality, local government and justice committee in the last administration.

In the meantime, we must take action now. The ending of the £20 per week—if it happens, and we must still strive to stop it—means households are heading towards a financial cliff edge. It's vital that we help, using all the levers that we have in child poverty. I'll just mention two areas: the income maximation action plan—we're putting more money into people's pockets; we've had our national welfare benefit take-up campaign, and it helped people claim £650,000 of welfare benefit income—but also the discretionary assistance fund—the fact that we boosted this by £25.4 million during the pandemic—and providing emergency support for people who have off-grid fuel experiencing financial hardship for the coldest months of the year.

So, I can confirm today that I will continue to—that the support will be extended, from the discretionary assistance fund, in these circumstances, from October through to the end of March, ensuring support throughout the whole of the winter, and we'll continue the flexibilities that we've built into the discretionary assistance fund during the pandemic to provide financial support to people who will soon be facing even greater pressures as a result of the changes being made by the UK Conservative Government.

Dirprwy Lywydd, when there is so much opposition to the £20 cut—and there may be some on our benches here—from devolved Governments, from charities, from over 50 Tory MPs, including six former Department for Work and Pensions Secretaries of State, it is indefensible and frankly deplorable that the Conservatives are refusing to listen and to stand by those who need them the most. Austerity is clearly and firmly back for the poorest and lowest paid, but I thank colleagues again for this motion, for allowing us to jointly call on the UK Conservative Government to step back from this brink and do what is simply the right thing.

I call on Luke Fletcher to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I'd like to thank Members and the Minister, of course, for a reply and the contributions to today's debate. I might not have agreed with them all, but thank you nonetheless.

Dirprwy Lywydd, this debate couldn’t be more timely. This morning, on the bus in, there was a BBC news headline: ‘Price rises see record jump as food costs soar in August.’ The biggest increase in inflation since records began in 1997, yet we hear nothing, nothing from the Tory Government: no u-turn on the scrapping of the £20 uplift to universal credit, nothing on what measures it will take to protect the most vulnerable in society or the largest reduction to any social security payment since the 1930s. Instead, we've got the work and pensions Secretary backing the cut to universal credit saying that it would only mean two hours of extra work. If only it was that simple. 'Shameful’ is probably the word that's most appropriate that comes to my mind. I'm sure the Dirprwy Lywydd wouldn't want or even take kindly to the words I used when I initially heard the comments, so I'm minded not to repeat them.

Now, we know that the reduction in universal credit and working tax credits will have implications for the Welsh economy. The Bevan Foundation have estimated that the cut will directly remove £286 million from the pockets of low-income families in Wales annually. We hear about the emphasis on economic recovery. Well, it will no doubt be hindered by the decisions taken by the UK Tory Government, who would rather punish the working class and help their rich butties. As Delyth Jewell has already asked us: what is £20? That's money that could have gone on essentials—money that would have been spent in our economy, money that could have gone on the occasional treat.

Sioned Williams rightly pointed out the effect that the cut to universal credit would have on working families. As she has already highlighted, the TUC tells us that a third of families affected in Wales will be working families, and that's families in each and every one of our constituencies and regions. This is about dignity and respect for our fellow citizens, and on this point of dignity and respect, with the evidence—and, of course, evidence collected over the course of almost a decade, by the way—against universal credit, I find it hard to believe that the Welsh Conservatives still defend it. Case after case after case where families are stuck in a vicious cycle of poverty. And I've sat here, as well, through this entire debate, and all I've been hearing are Conservative Members on the benches laughing. Laughing. You should be utterly ashamed. [Interruption.] No, I will not be taking an intervention, thank you. No, I will not take an intervention. [Interruption.] I will not take an intervention. You have been laughing all the way through this debate.

Come with me; come with me to my region. And I'm sure Sarah Murphy as well—we both represent the same area. We'll take you to some of those families who have been affected by the Tory Government, and we'll see what they think about the fact that you laugh on your benches. You should be utterly ashamed—

Can we hear the Member speak?

—of yourself. Utterly ashamed of yourself. [Interruption.] Utterly, utterly ashamed of yourself. You have no purchase in this argument whatsoever.

So, what needs to happen? Well we've outlined in clear terms in our motion, and we've elaborated in great detail, what the Welsh Government needs to do. A socialist Government would pursue the devolution of welfare as a matter of urgency to tackle poverty in Wales. And I'm sure the Minister and Labour Members would forgive me when I say that I don't always see eye to eye with them, but I would like to think that their Government would be far more compassionate than the one we have in Westminster at the moment, not that the bar has been set particularly high, mind you. The Government must publish a robust and meaningful plan to tackle poverty that contains clear performance targets to measure progress, and it must mitigate the worst effects of the cut to universal credit by maintaining flexibility around the discretionary assistance fund while employing other measures, such as extending free school meals eligibility.

Like my friend Sioned Williams, I too have only been a Member of the Senedd for four months, and I've heard enough about reviews to last me a lifetime. People need help now. The time to act is now. What is the point of this place and what is the point of us if we cannot protect the people of Wales? What is the point of this place if we cannot give the people of Wales the help that they need when they need it the most?

I ask Members one thing when they come to vote on this motion: think long and hard. Think long and hard about the hardships that face working families in Wales today. Think long and hard about the consequences of your vote. Think long and hard about what help you would need if you ever found yourselves in their positions.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is an objection. I will defer voting until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, I will suspend the meeting before proceeding to voting time.

Plenary was suspended at 17:23.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:32, with the Llywydd in the Chair.