Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:07 pm on 28 September 2021.
Thank you, First Minister, for your statement. As you say, it should come to no-one's surprise in this Chamber that because of the political differences between the Welsh Labour Government and the UK Conservative Government there are, at times, tensions; that's understandable in a democracy that throws up Governments of different colours in Wales and at a UK level. So, I am a little disappointed, looking at some of the phrases and words in your statement today, because they don't entirely marry up to the document that you've published, which I thought, by and large, highlighted lots of positive engagement that was taking place at all sorts of levels between Ministers and officials in the Welsh Government, the UK Government and, indeed, the other devolved nations across the whole of the United Kingdom.
The document talks about the Joint Biosecurity Centre, it talks about the good work on the vaccination programme, the collaboration around the pandemic, the weekly meetings that are taking place between many Government departments here and Government departments at a UK level, the fact that Welsh Ministers have been participating in COBRA meetings, the engagement that there has been on the common frameworks, and the good, positive work that has been done as well in terms of engaging the Welsh Government in discussions on new trade deals. So, I thought it was a little bit disappointing to hear the First Minister commenting on lots of the negative aspects of the report, which, by and large—and I would encourage anybody to read it—goes against the grain of what you're saying in the fuller document.
It is important that we do have good working relationships, for the sake of the people of Wales, between the Welsh Government and the UK Government, and that's why I'm pleased that the UK Government did commission the inter-governmental review and that there has been a great deal of progress and agreement between the devolved nations and the UK Government on a framework for engagement in the future. You outlined, very positively I thought, some of the aspects of that that have already been agreed, and we very much look forward to seeing the final outcome. Of course, the delay in the publication of that document and the finalisation of that document is largely down to the pandemic, which has been a significant distraction, of course, for everybody, understandably so. But I do think that many of the challenges that we have experienced in the past as a result of the two different political parties being in Government at both ends of the M4 will be overcome as a result of the frameworks that will, hopefully, be put in place.
I noted that the First Minister made reference to coal tips, and I have to say, First Minister, that I and my colleagues on the Welsh Conservative benches completely agree that there needs to be a joint, collaborative approach to addressing the concerns about coal tips here in Wales, given that they are indeed a legacy from the pre-devolution era. That is entirely appropriate and I don’t recognise the reluctance that you seem to suggest is there in terms of the engagement of the UK Government on that particular issue.
You also made reference, of course, to the need for Wales to get its fair share of funding. I would remind you and everybody else in this Chamber today that Wales has received £8.6 billion extra from the UK Government as a result of the pandemic. That’s a membership dividend, if you like, from the fact that Wales is an important part of the United Kingdom—a constituent part of the United Kingdom. I make no apologies for the fact that I think the UK Government has done a very good job in terms of making that cash available to Wales when it needed it in order that it could plan an effective response. So, I do think that, at times, Welsh Government Ministers need to have a bit of a thicker skin when it comes to the occasional disagreement, which is entirely predictable because of the fact that there are political differences between the two political parties.
Can I ask you, First Minister: do you accept some responsibility for the occasional souring of relationships between the Welsh Government and the UK Government, particularly given the disruption and the disruptive way that your party behaved in trying to prevent the UK’s departure from the European Union? I think that that process—that did sour relationships, it was divisive, and I think at times very unnecessary, given that everybody had to get on and deliver on the outcome of that referendum. There were people in the Labour Party here in Wales, and indeed in England, who are still wanting to go back and reverse the decision of the British people and, remember, the people of Wales, because the majority of people here in Wales voted to leave the EU. But that actually did sour relationships. I don’t think it was always necessary, but, of course, I would hope that you would accept some responsibility on the part of your party for the souring of those relationships at that time.
Now, those things, of course, are behind us, hopefully, and we can press on and make sure that the relationships are improved in the future. And with your indulgence, Llywydd, if I may—