If I can thank the Member for his contribution and the summary, I think, of the history of devolution—certainly my recollection from the early 1970s, when I have to say that there were those of us who were never sure it was going to happen, but the lesson that you learn is that things do change and you have to prepare for the future. I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said that by failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail. And he also said that when you are finished changing, you are finished. And we are in a process of change, and that's why I think we have to embrace that change. 

I'm grateful for your reference to the quote attributed to me of Dominic Cummings; it was actually Lord Frost. I thought more pertinently Lord Frost on the basis that he is currently leading the negotiations on the EU exit, so maybe his comments really are worth bearing in mind very carefully. 

Can I say again that I think it's perhaps a mistake to focus on particular individual options, whether it's independence, whether it's federalism, radical federalism, unionism and so on? I think the starting point in terms of the message that has to come over is that we want to see change that will benefit the people of Wales, which will bring decision making closer to people, to give people more control over the decisions that impact on their lives. So, the issue of subsidiarity for me is a fundamental one. 

You mentioned, of course, the interview with Keir Starmer and of course the UK Labour commission that is there. I think what those comments and that commission indicate, of course, is that it is not just in respect of the situation in Wales, or Scotland, or Northern Ireland, there are clear demands for the decentralisation of power, for the greater empowerment of people and communities in respect of that devolution that's already taken place in England. It may be that the debate there is is 10 years behind, but it is certainly gathering pace and it is certainly relevant to, I think, the debate that is coming for the future. My view is that, in respect of the UK Labour Party commission and any other commissions that are there, I would hope that this commission, which is a Welsh Government-established commission, on the basis of a manifesto commitment but is independent of Government and has a mandate to consider all options, would want to engage with any process that is taking place that is of relevance to the people of Wales and relevant to the task that they have.

And in terms of will the UK Government listen, well Governments come, Governments go, politics changes. I think that, if the commission is able to have the sort of engagement we want to see it have, if it is able to build up that sort of consensus amongst the people of Wales and, hopefully, cross party as well on the need for change, then we will succeed. So, we either argue our case, we either campaign for the sorts of changes that we believe should take place and the sorts of values that we have, otherwise what is the purpose of this place? Change is something that is always occurring. It always takes place, and it's much quoted that devolution is a process not an event, well, history is continually changing. The world we live in changes, and I have to say the world I lived in when we started looking at devolution after Kilbrandon in 1974 has changed rather immensely. You no longer see Tipp-Ex and carbon paper in people's offices as you once did. The technological revolution has changed so much, as the world has globally. 

So, I see the commission and I see, hopefully perhaps, in summary to the points you raised being this: we live in a global world, Wales has to make its own voice and its own way and its own identity there. It has to work with the neighbours around it, it has to develop the interdependencies, and that goes fundamentally to our democracy. But, beyond everything, this is not about us as politicians, whichever party we are, saying we know what is best for the people of Wales, it is actually saying that there are challenges ahead, and the best way forward in determining what they should be is by actually engaging with the people of Wales, the people who elect us. And I think that is why the commission is so vitally important. Diolch, Llywydd.