Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:53 pm on 19 October 2021.
I thank the Member for his thoughtful questions and comments. If I might start by actually saying how important I recognise the role of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee is, and in fact, I think I'm taking one of your papers home, which is a critique of one of our legislative consent memoranda, so I want to think about that very, very carefully, but it is a very important function that the committee has in a Parliament without a second Chamber.
Firstly, on 'Reforming our Union', it relates back a little bit, doesn't it, to a question that was raised earlier in terms of engagement with the UK Government, and that is, we had the first edition of 'Reforming our Union' to the UK Government basically brushed aside, and the second version, more recently, brushed aside. And that was really very, very disappointing, because the whole point to those papers was to actually stimulate a debate, was to engage, and it's very difficult when one party, almost ostrich-like, sticks its head in the sand and says it won't engage.
Now, I will say in terms of on the more positive side, and this is a matter that we have discussed before, is with the inter-governmental agreement—there is some progress on that. The inter-governmental agreement is a mechanism for improving the mechanism of engagement between the Governments of the four nations, although it is not a resolution to what I think are the longer term constitutional issues, which really are also the recognition of, I think, sovereignty, and the fact that the sovereignty of the four nations should now become a constitutional inalienability; that is that it is now shared and should not be capable of being changed.
You're right also in terms of the impact of legislation from the UK Government, and what impact that may have in terms of devolving responsibilities, just mentioning the subsidy Bill, the internal market Act, of course, and the way that is being used in terms of the manipulation of finance. We've had this debate many times before, and of course, as you know, we have a legal challenge to the internal market Act, which is being heard in January of next year.
Can I perhaps just summarise in saying I think all the points you make are valid? I think in going ahead and considering the issues, looking at the issues that the commission will have to consider, it would be irresponsible of us not to be having this commission, and not to be engaging in this process in the light of all the challenges we know are ahead. It is not appropriate, I think, to predict what the outcome will be, because I think everybody who's going to be on the commission, including the co-chairs—the position has been very clear from early on, they are not representatives of any particular political position but are there for their skills, to carry out the functions of the commission to engage with the people of Wales.