The next item, therefore, is the statement by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change on the metro, and I call on the Deputy Minister to make his statement. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. The climate emergency demands we change the way we travel. Seventeen per cent of Welsh carbon emissions are generated by transport, and as the UK Climate Change Committee makes clear, simply switching to electric cars will not meet the 2050 net zero target. We need to cut the number of journeys and get people to switch to more sustainable forms of transport too.

We fully recognise that this is not going to be easy. For some 70 years transport policy in the UK has favoured car travel over public transport, and as a result it is now easier for most people to hop in the car than it is to plan a journey using more sustainable forms of transport. That has to change. But for that to happen, we have to make the right thing to do the easiest thing to do.

Our Wales transport strategy sets out the steps we need to make to meet our target of 45 per cent of journeys by public transport or active travel by 2040. We are aiming to publish a new bus strategy around the end of this year, and a White Paper to follow, and a bus reform Bill this Senedd term.

Our active travel investment for short local trips is now the highest per head in the UK, and we are working with councils to identify safe local networks that will encourage people to leave the car at home and walk and cycle instead. Ten per cent of car journeys are under 1 mile in length, and many of those trips could be made on foot or by bike.

For medium and long-term journeys, rail has an important part to play. We need to see the £5 billion shortfall in rail investment from the UK Government made up in order to modernise our network. For our part, we have taken the Wales and borders franchise under public control and are working hard to stabilise it after the collapse in passenger numbers during COVID. As we plan the rail recovery, we must do it in tandem with the other sustainable modes, so that people can make their whole journey, door to door, by sustainable transport.

The Burns commission in south-east Wales has set a blueprint for how that can be done, and we want to scale that approach to other parts of Wales. In particular, I want to emulate the model where the Welsh Government and Transport for Wales have formed a single joint delivery unit with the local authorities, and an independent delivery board set up to drive performance and ensure progress. I’m pleased that Simon Gibson and Dr Lynn Sloman, both noted for their delivery focus, are serving as chair and vice-chair of the delivery board in south-east Wales.

Llywydd, I can announce that I have tasked my officials with creating a similar collaborative approach in north Wales too. We will create a north Wales metro delivery board, and I will be advertising for an independent chair and vice-chair to make sure we are being as ambitious as possible and to hold delivery partners to account, ourselves included. I would also like to see this model of partnership, co-design and shared leadership adopted by the four corporate joint committees across Wales as they take up their responsibility for regional transport planning over the course of this Senedd term.

The evidence from around the world suggests that if you want people to use public transport, it needs to be easy to use. In the parlance, it needs to 'turn up and go', and that's the design principle at the heart of our metro programme: frequent, seamless services connecting people with key destinations, and we've committed over £1 billion to our three metro programmes. Each is in different stages of development and we are today publishing updated maps showing the current ambition.

In the south-east, significant construction work is already under way, and in the next few years we'll increasingly see physical evidence of one of the most ambitious infrastructure projects to have taken place in Wales in modern times. A new bus station right next to the main train station is going up in Cardiff. Work has been going on over the summer on the core Valleys line to prepare it for the introduction of new tram trains. By 2024, there will be new tram trains offering fast turn-up-and-go services at around 50 stations on the Welsh Government's network, as well as new services being planned to double the frequency on the Ebbw Vale line through the Vale of Glamorgan, and to Maesteg.

In north Wales, we've put in place the foundations for a significantly improved rail and bus service and active travel through our £50 million of Welsh Government funding announcement. I recently saw for myself the plans at Wrexham General station to make it easier to change between rail and bus, helping connections between the north Wales coast and the more frequent Borderlands line services from next year at Shotton, alongside a new station at Deeside industrial park.

We've asked Transport for Wales to take on the development of the Swansea bay and west Wales metro to assist the local authorities in that area. This is at the earliest stage of development of the three metro key schemes, and I'm keen to increase the pace and the ambition for public transport in this part of Wales. Around £8 million has been allocated this year to deliver active travel and public transport schemes to support the Swansea bay metro programme. Preliminary work is being carried out to develop a potential hydrogen bus pilot in Swansea bay and Pembrokeshire, and new interchanges, including a new station at St Clears delivered by Transport for Wales, which will be in place by 2024, will offer real improvements to public transport in the area.

I've also recently commissioned work to develop a new programme for mid Wales to examine how our approach to the metros can be applied in this region and our more rural areas across the whole of Wales. We must learn from Germany and Switzerland that it's perfectly possible to have an effective public transport system in rural areas. It'll require a different approach to urban Wales, but it's absolutely doable with commitment. Car clubs and electric bikes will have a major role to play, as will demand-responsive transport, and in pilots across Wales, our Fflecsi service is offering access to public transport where previously there was none, opening up new opportunities for more people. We are now trialling Fflecsi in 11 areas, where we are seeing significant passenger growth and it has now been used for over 100,000 journeys. And we're committed to learn from it and to scale it.

Llywydd, delivering our metros is one of the most ambitious and complex programmes ever undertaken by the Welsh Government. The maps published today illustrate our emerging programmes. We have the capability, the expertise, the experience and the desire in Wales to progress at pace. In fact, we will not achieve our net zero ambitions if we don't. Diolch.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

I have a large number of people who wish to speak, and I therefore ask everyone to keep within their time allocation so that we can get as many in as possible, please. And I'm sure the Deputy Minister will also be succinct in his answers to the questions.

Conservative spokesperson, Natasha Asghar. 

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Firstly, I thank the Deputy Minister for his statement today. I wish to put on record that the Welsh Conservatives do fully support the metro projects across Wales, but I do want to also just put in there that we don't think it's going to be a fully fledged solution to the environmental crisis. We do share your hope that it'll make it easier for people to use their cars less and use public transport more. However, we do have concerns that your Government is relying too much on the metro as an immediate transport solution for south Wales. I know you mentioned £750 million was being spent on south Wales and, as someone from south Wales, that's great, but just in comparison, £50 million for north Wales is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those people who live in north Wales. 

Deputy Minister, I just want to give you an example. If I fall and trip right now and break my hand, a plaster will literally only help me to a certain point, but if I actually need a cast to resolve the issue that I have at hand, that's what we need here in Wales. We need a cast, something that's actually going to solve the problem of transport. Therefore, it's my belief that the economic benefits derived from the metro will be offset by the damage done by your failure to invest in improving our roads. As the planning inspector of the proposed M4 relief road said in 2019, if the south Wales metro were created overnight, it would only alleviate traffic by 5.9 per cent. So, I'd like to know: have your figures changed since then?

Your decision to freeze all new road building has been met with widespread dismay by businesses in Wales. The Road Haulage Association has criticised the move and said that Wales needs a fit-for-purpose road network to boost trade. You mentioned previously in a statement that one out of five people do not have access to a car. This is not me being difficult, but I'd very much like to know where you got the figure from, because my main concern is those four out of five that we haven't discussed and mentioned. So, Deputy Minister, do you feel that the south Wales metro may not actually solve all the transport problems of south Wales, and that we need an efficient, modern road infrastructure as well, side by side?

Your comments on new and improved bus services are welcomed by myself and many of my colleagues, but merely highlight the neglect and decline in bus services that has taken place under the Welsh Labour Government. Under your Government, the number of local bus journeys has fallen from 100 million in 2016-17 to 89 million in 2019-20. So, how will you deliver this promised increase in bus services? Six years ago, Wales replaced the bus service operators grant with the bus services support grant, with funding set at £25 million. It is shocking, therefore, that this fixed pot of £25 million has not changed since the BSSG inception. So, how will you deliver this promised increase in bus services when funding per passenger is inadequate and compares poorly with that provided for rail passengers?

I sincerely, from every ounce of my soul, welcome your comments on a new integrated ticketing system and flexible fare options, but can you advise what is the present position regarding my call for an all-Wales travel card, which received a positive response from the First Minister? Having spoken to those behind the Oyster card in London, we already have the system in place here in Wales and have the infrastructure to provide that all-important all-Wales travel card. I love the idea of having a debit card system here. The tap-and-go system would be fantastic for so many people across the board, but it would cost a lot of money and time. Do we have that time, Deputy Minister?

Finally, Minister, I agree that Wales needs new and improved train stations, and have supported calls for one at Magor and Undy. I'd like to know what discussions have you had specifically, or intend to have, with the UK Secretary of State for Transport, Grant Shapps, to make this a reality and deliver these vital links in the Welsh network chain right now. Thank you very much.

There was a series of questions there, and I'm mindful of the Deputy Llywydd's plea to keep the answers short, so I will do my best.

I'm getting a little tired of sharing platforms with Conservative spokespeople who call for us to take bold action on climate change and then the next day stand up in the Senedd and demand we spend billions of pounds on roads programmes. Those two things are not compatible, so how you explain that disconnect, I don't understand, because it's complete hypocrisy. That's what it is. It's hypocrisy. You cannot do both things at the same time. Now, you want us to spend £2 billion on a motorway through Newport, which, as we know, would increase traffic and car use, not decrease it as the UK Climate Change Committee tells us we need to do. Your figures on the metro are out of date, because the approach of the Burns commission has shown that an integrated approach of bus, rail and active travel, focused around the city of Newport, can achieve modal shift. It can achieve the same impact as the road for half the price.

You ask where we get the figures of 20 per cent of people not having a car. The answer is quite simple: the census. These aren't contested figures. These are well-established figures. In fact, additional figures from TfW show that 80 per cent of bus users don't have an alternative. So, investing in public transport is as much a social justice case as it is a climate change case.

The suggestion of the all-Wales travel card is an attractive one, but it simply can't be achieved with the fragmented, privatised system that her party has left us as a legacy, and that's why we're taking through the bus modernisation Bill. She may curse and say it's inconvenient that I point out the Conservative record on public transport, but we are living with the legacy of it 40 years on. The privatisation of the bus service was a disaster, and it makes it nigh on impossible to introduce the sort of changes we've seen in London, because in London the bus service was kept regulated in public ownership. That was not—[Interruption.]

Can the Deputy Minister hold on a second? Members should listen to the answer. You've raised questions; please listen to the answer. And Government backbenchers, also listen to the answer, please. Deputy Minister.

In terms of the different levels of investment in different parts of Wales, as I made clear, we are in different stages of development. The south Wales metro has been in gestation for a very long time. We now need to make sure that it's matched across the rest of Wales. I hope she would have welcomed the announcement we made today of a delivery board for north Wales, with an independent chair, to challenge us all—local authorities, Welsh Government and Transport for Wales—to increase our ambition and increase our pace. Because, if, unlike her, I am sincere in delivering our net-zero commitments, we do need to shift resources from road building to public transport, and that's why we announced the roads review.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you, Minister, for your statement. I wanted to ask you in the first instance about public confidence in using public transport as a result of COVID. Research by Transport Focus shows that there's a clear difference between those who have been using public transport during the pandemic or recently and those who have not. The latter group are much more concerned about using transport again and they want to make sure that they feel confident that the transport provision is clean, is safe and is ready for use. It's clear from what you've been saying, and what we all know, that there needs to be a modal shift in the sector to achieve net zero, but still large numbers of people continue to be concerned about their safety. So, what steps will you and the Welsh Government take to inspire and increase travellers' confidence to boost the use of public transport, especially for the metro?

I also wanted to ask about accessibility, Minister, because obviously, we need to make it easier for people to actually use public transport. I note that you said that we need to make the right thing to do the easy thing to do. I welcome that, and I'd add to it as well: the safe thing to do. So, as well as making sure that we learn from what Sustrans say in terms of making sure that the first mile and the last mile are connected, what steps are you and the Government looking at and planning for in terms of making sure that walkways are well lit, that it is accessible and feels safe for women walking on their own, and older people who might feel nervous about falling as well if walkways aren't well lit—that kind of thing? How are you taking into consideration those areas?

Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm very aware of time, so I'll just ask one final question. Turning to decarbonisation and connectivity, you said, Minster, in your response to the Conservatives just now that we have a fragmented and privatised system, which is the legacy of how Westminster has left us in terms of public transport. There isn't a comprehensive rail network connecting the different parts of Wales, and north-south journeys have to be made through England. One of the major reasons for this is that not all responsibility for rail is devolved. So, could I ask you how you aim to address barriers to connectivity in terms of, yes, electrification, the grid limitations, capacity, things that were raised in our debate last week, but as well as that, the limited powers over rail infrastructure that we currently have, so that a fully decarbonised, connected transport network can become a reality?

Thank you. There were number of questions. Passenger demand is starting to return to the rail service. It's now at 66 per cent of pre-pandemic levels, which, clearly, is significantly lower, but it's increasing all the time and we are maintaining deep cleaning at stations and on trains. We've seen this trend right across the world, where post-pandemic confidence using mass transit is reduced, and that's not unexpected. It's one of the reasons why we're keeping support for the rail and bus industry at the levels we have done. But obviously, we want to taper that down as demand increases. So, we, frankly, have to feel our way. We're in an unprecedented public health crisis and we don't know what the future holds.

We are currently at alert level 0 and that allows public transport use, but we are encouraging social distancing. I do get very concerning reports of services where there is overcrowding and people aren't wearing masks and that is clearly shaking public confidence. But the law is clear: we want people to wear masks. We do have enforcement measures in place and we, each of us, have a responsibility to follow the law and follow public health advice. But clearly, we're in an incredibly difficult and unprecedented situation and we are monitoring it on a weekly basis.

In terms of the point about rail powers and barriers to connectivity, this is clearly a really important point. We want rail powers to be devolved. The UK Government are not engaging in that conversation. In fact, they're barely engaging in any conversation at all. Natasha Asghar asked me when I met Grant Shapps; I've failed to get an audience with Mr Shapps, he won't meet with us. So, there is definitely a disconnect here, which is very concerning for us achieving the ambitions we want. And as I said in the statement, we remain £5 billion short in the investment we need for rail infrastructure. So, it is an impediment on us achieving our net-zero ambitions, for sure, and I raised this with Sir Peter Hendy, the chair of Network Rail, recently. Clearly, these are political decisions by the UK Westminster Government; they talk of levelling up, but they don't deliver levelling up, and until they do, we will have these barriers that Delyth Jewell outlined. In the meantime, we have to try and address them with other things that we do have in our control, namely bus, in particular. That's why we are developing our bus strategy at the end of this year.

On the alignment, Minister, between the metro and the delivery board for the Burns commission, I wonder if you could say a little bit more about how that is going to be ensured and achieved. We do have quite a few players involved, as you said. There's the Welsh Government, Transport for Wales, the local authorities, and then the delivery board, to deliver on the Burns commission strategy on behalf of the partners and with the partners.

There's the metro work, and there are the corporate joint committees. It's quite a task, I think, to make sure that there is good communication and joint ownership and vision that translates into actual measures on the ground. So, I wonder if you could say a little bit more about the process that's going to ensure that we do see effective delivery in that sort of scenario with that sort of set-up.

In terms of active travel, Minister, I think that it's fair to say that, sometimes, local authorities have struggled in terms of their own internal capacity to make sure that we get— 

Will the Member conclude now?

Certainly—that we get the right quality and effectiveness. So, I wonder if you could say a little bit about how the Welsh Government, with partners, will ensure that that's achieved. 

Absolutely. I think that those are both strands of the same argument. Capacity and capability within local authorities is a real delivery constraint. That's why it's essential that local authorities work through the corporate joint committees to pool their resources. Then, we'll work alongside them, through Transport for Wales. James Price has said, as chief executive, that he wants TfW to be the servant of local authorities—to be the technical brain for them; that the accountability in decision making is local, but that we pool the delivery capability. I think that that is a sensible model.

As I say, I'm really encouraged by the Newport example. Through that Burns delivery plan, we are, I think, sketching out what can be applied to the rest of Wales. The Welsh Government has got a huge amount of work going on behind the scenes, which you won't have seen the result of yet. That is one of the problems that we have with the whole metro development. The lag between the planning and the technical work and the delivery is long, and people are tired of hearing the promises because they don't see anything for it.

But, we are definitely going to see a change with that for the south Wales metro in the coming year or so, and I think that we will see that in Newport too. The Welsh Government and the council and TfW are working very closely as one unit to design schemes, put them in for funding and then work on the delivery. So, I'm confident that the model is working, and we hope to scale it.

The people of Cardiff are certainly delighted that they are going to get their bus station back, because it has been a long road. So, that is going to be very exciting. Thank you for releasing these maps, because it is really useful to see what your priorities are up until 2029.

The Burns report is framed around using two of the four train tracks between Newport and Cardiff and beyond as the spine of the south-east Wales metro, yet I can't see anything around that on your map. I am particularly concerned about this because the bi-mode trains have been revealed as being seriously polluting by the Rail Safety and Standards Board. Passengers are imbibing air that is worse than on a busy urban roadside location. So, that's really bad news for Cardiff and for all the passengers who are going west.

So, is it that you have almost had to give up on the UK Government? Four years after cancelling—

Can the Member conclude now, please?

—the electrification of the line to Swansea, they still haven't come up with their initial assessment of how they are going to improve the Wales rail infrastructure. Is there anything that you can say to tell us that that is not going to be a hole in the plans from the Burns report?

[Inaudible.]—capture everything that's going on, that's for sure. We do have bids in to the Department for Transport for work to deliver on the Burns report. We've been given encouraging noises when I've met with Ministers, but have yet to have any confirmation that we are going to get the funding. Without the funding, it's not going to be possible to deliver on the Burns report and address the congestion. So, on the one hand, they say they want to build a road, and Boris Johnson chastises us for not having built the road. We've come up with an alternative, come up with a former Treasury Permanent Secretary, endorsed by the chair of Network Rail, and the UK Government is failing to fund it. So, we are still hopeful that that will come forward, but I have nothing to report yet. But the Member is absolutely right that, without it, we're not going to be able to take polluting traffic off the roads.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for bringing forward this statement today. It is of course a very timely statement. Just a couple of weeks ago, I raised a question with you regarding the north Wales metro, in the Chamber, and I was really pleased to hear you agree with me that there should be urgency around the delivery of the metro in north Wales. And in light of this, I certainly welcome some further focus in my region, with the creation of a north Wales metro delivery board, which you've announced here today. I am disappointed, though, to not hear anything about an expanded proposal for north Wales. The current metro proposal for the region stops at Rhyl. Now, whilst Rhyl is a wonderful destination, the rest of north Wales needs a clearly supported strategy to mitigate current pressures for those living in the region, alongside our 26 million annual visitors, whilst also delivering a solution that contributes to the climate change challenge. So, Deputy Minister, how will you task this north Wales metro delivery board to deliver a north Wales metro that truly serves the region? Thank you.

Well I know that, as a former leader of a local authority in north Wales, Sam Rowlands will fully value the importance of local leadership, and the role that local authorities have in shaping these proposals. And that's why I think it's important to create this joint delivery mechanism, both for operational and for strategic means, so we can together increase the ambition. I met with the cabinet members from the north Wales economic ambition board recently, and put this challenge to them. I think there's still a focus with some on road-based schemes, but the message needs to get through that we need to shift our focus here. Again, there is a disconnect between, on the one hand, calling for us to meet net zero, and on the other hand being wedded to a way of thinking that is out of line with that vision. So, I'm very keen that we start looking seriously at the role that public transport can play as the workhorse of the transport system, and that we work closely with north Wales local authorities to design what's going to be right for their communities, so we can give people realistic alternatives to the car.

Minister, you'll know where I'll be coming to at my concluding point on this, but can I just first of all say, I think this map, the document, the statement today shows that Welsh Government is serious about changing the whole conversation about shifting towards active travel, public transport—as you just described it: the workhorse of the way we travel about our communities, get to work, get to social events, and so on? And it does require us to put our political goodwill behind this as well, and to be consistent in arguing the case for this, so that people can have accessible, affordable, regular, frequent, universal ticketing, that they can hop from bus to bike and on to train, and get to the places they need to go, and design the communities around it.

But, Minister, you know where I'm coming. Maesteg is mentioned in the document, Maesteg is on the maps as well, in the emerging proposals up to 2029. I've been campaigning on this now for nearly a decade—not just since the time I was in the Senedd. Minister, will you meet with me, and local authority representatives, to discuss in further detail the proposals for Maesteg, so we can give our constituents timelines about when we'll deliver this? Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Naturally, I'm delighted to meet with the Member, and his local authority colleagues, to discuss the five options that we are currently looking at to increase the frequency of services on the Maesteg line as part of the phase 2 WelTAG process, which will be completed this financial year. All of the options being assessed include integrated transport hubs at Bridgend and Ewenny Road, and will consider the appropriate type of rolling stock for providing increased frequency of services. And I look forward to working with him to go through the detail of that.

Minister, like others, I very much welcome both the statement and the scale of the ambition from the Welsh Government today. The last question took you to Maesteg; I'm going to take you to Ebbw Vale and Abertillery, and that will be no surprise to you at all. Could you ensure that the Ebbw Valley line is treated with equality in terms of the services and investment? We have not seen the devolution of the Ebbw Valley line, and we've seen the UK Government starve the Ebbw Valley line of investment, and I'm grateful to the Welsh Government for stepping in and filling the responsibility that is held by the UK Government on that. But we need equality of services and a timeline for development of new services. We also need links to the Grange. We've debated and discussed many times in this place over the years. If the Welsh Government is serious about this ambition, it cannot be making investments as large as the Grange, and then not ensuring there are public transport links to the Grange from across the area served by it, including Blaenau Gwent. 

And my final point is in terms of the bus strategy and the Bill. I understood that this Bill would be brought forward in the first year of this Senedd, and so, it would be useful, I think, for Members to understand why there appears to be something of a delay because we need bus services re-regulated today. We are seeing the impact of that misguided Thatcherite policy today in Blaenau Gwent. The people of Blaenau Gwent want control of their buses back. Thank you. 

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, there is not a Bill that is in the offing of the legislative programme that different campaigners don't want done in the first year of this Senedd term, and clearly we can't do them all in the first year of this Senedd term. So, the First Minister and the Counsel General are currently looking at the best way to manage that logjam. I would say that the pause does allow us a chance to be more ambitious, and we are now working with the local authorities and operators to see if we can design a bus Bill that is going to be more radical and more effective than the one that we previously had conceived. So, I think this is an exciting opportunity for us to up our ambition, and that is something we are definitely committed to do. 

In terms of the Grange, I think the Grange is a case study of something we need to learn really and not allow this to happen again, and that's why I said in the statement why it's so important for the CJCs and the local authorities to come together and take their responsibilities seriously so they can plan transport alongside other services, so we're not creating out-of-town developments that aren't served by public transport. And, of course, in this instance, it's the Welsh Government itself—it's the NHS planning that is to blame for creating a large trip-generating site away from public transport networks. And never again I think we should say that this be allowed to happen.

And, so, I'm frustrated that we haven't been able to make greater progress in getting a bus service to the Grange as we have discussed previously. The latest update I have for the Member is that there is an hourly bus service, No. 29, operated by Newport Bus, that links the hospital to Cwmbran and Newport via Caerleon every hour, seven days a week. In terms of his specific point about the valleys he represents, then there will be a new direct bus service to the hospital from key centres in Blaenau Gwent, Torfaen, Caerphilly and Rhondda Cynon Taf in the next six months subject to funding being identified, and then we will be looking to see how we can bake that into the metro enhancements that we are planning. And I realise that is not as good as it should have been, and I apologise for that, but that is something we are still progressing.

And in terms of his final point about the rail links, as he knows, from this December, there will be an hourly service between Cross Keys and Newport, and we have given a £70 million loan to Blaenau Gwent to upgrade the infrastructure so that we can have a new service extending all the way from Ebbw Vale to Newport, which he's been campaigning for consistently, and it will now be delivered. And in terms of the Abertillery link, this is something that is the responsibility of the UK Government and it's not part of the devolved settlement. But our £70 million investment does create a spur to Abertillery which allows that investment to take place when the UK Government is finally willing to step up and support the network as it should. 

I do welcome the refreshing comments from the Deputy Minister on the inadequate public transport options to the Grange Hospital. There is a growing consensus on the need for urgent action to address the climate challenge emergency that our planet faces, although the Conservatives opposite remain confused despite Boris's change from orange to green. 

The ambitious Wales transport strategy is ambitious, and the metro offers us real potential to make a difference alongside the other planned sustainable modes of door-to-door sustainable transport. We know that people are aware of the need to lessen car usage but, rightly, they ask for improved public transport alternatives, and I do welcome the progress on bus policy for Wales and that modal shift to follow. Deputy Minister, you note that the Welsh Government have committed a third more rail services to improve connectivity, despite totally non-existent UK infrastructural spend here in Wales—no electrification or other spend in that department from the UK Government. And, in Islwyn, we have seen—

Can you ask your question now, please?  

I'm coming to that very swiftly—

Now, please. 

—how welcome the Ebbw Vale line to Cardiff is. Deputy Minister, what actions, then, can you and the Welsh Government take in order to meet with the UK Conservative Government to ensure that Wales receives that badly needed funding required to transform Wales's public sector infrastructure? 

Well, we genuinely do want to work with them, and we do our very best to have constructive dialogue with them, but it's a bit of a one-way street at the moment, I've got to say. I did have a good meeting with, as I said, the chair of Network Rail recently, and I've met with some of the junior transport Ministers, but not with Grant Shapps himself. And their view is that we should be doing piecemeal bids to the UK Government to compete with all other parts of the UK for rail schemes. Our counter argument is: we have a share of the rail network, and we have a significantly smaller share of the investment that that share of the network requires. And, so, we think, we should, as of right, as from the population share and the track share as well, be getting a larger slice of the pie. They simply don't agree, and they simply will not act. So, I think that makes the levelling-up rhetoric hollow when it comes to Wales, and, in fact, they're making things worse by developing the high speed 2 line without giving us our population share; we do not get a Barnett share for that. So, not only, according to their own business plan, is that going to suck money out of Wales, high speed 2—let's be clear—is going to damage the Welsh economy. So, we get a negative effect to our economy; we don't get the population share that normally rail spend on an England basis would mean that we do get, so we're being short-changed, and they're not addressing their historic under investment in the Welsh rail network. So, I think it's a shameful story, and I would hope the Welsh Conservatives in this Senedd, instead of singing the old songs, would focus on being constructive and trying to get their own Government to stand up for Wales.

As a previous cabinet member for Flintshire, I'd like to say that the Welsh Government has made huge investment in the north Wales metro, providing £17 million of funding to local authorities over the last year alone, and I've seen investment in cycle lanes, park and ride, electric buses, right across the region of north Wales. We've also put—. I know Flintshire's also put in a bid for the parkway station as well—for planning for that—and a bid to UK Government to build it. We also need investment in the north Wales railway line as well, which, again, leads back to the UK Government. We've had £17 million of investment from Welsh Government, but nothing, so far, from the UK Government under level-up funding, and they're still waiting to hear regarding this vital investment. So, we really need to push that and make it happen.

Last week, I also raised public awareness of all this funding that's taken place under the metro initiative. So, that's investment in Fflecsi transport— 

Can you ask your question now, please?

Yes, this is it: so, I'm asking can we have metro signage so people will understand the investment made in park and ride, the cycle links—how they all link together—investment in stations as well. I think that's really important. And, also, post COVID—

We need a question. 

Post COVID, we need to encourage people to come back to using public transport as well. So, would you, Deputy Minister, make funding available for local authorities to be able to invest in properly advertising the metro, advertising timetables for buses and what's available for people, so they can gain confidence in using public transport again? Thank you.  

I think the Member makes a really important point about providing people with information. The research shows that there are two barriers to people taking up public transport: one, is a lack of services, but the other is a lack of information and knowledge about the services that do exist. So, giving people targeted information is essential, and that is one of the things we’re looking at as part of the Wales transport strategy. As well as the infrastructure, how do we improve on what are called softer measures, encouraging measures? Signage and information are a key part of that. So, that is definitely something that we are developing further.  

There is money already available to local authorities for active travel signage and route information if they want to apply for it. I must say, the picture across north Wales in local authorities applying for the funding is very patchy. Some local authorities haven’t put a bid in. So, there’s definitely funding available, and funding that we’re making available to all local authorities.

In terms of the point about signage for the metro development in particular, I will take that back and consider it. It’s a point that’s been made about other metro developments. As I said, this is a significant infrastructure programme—£1 billion of investment—and we do need to let people know that it's coming and it’s exciting, and it should help them think about changing their travel plans.

Minister, you made reference earlier on to the need for Wales to have its population share. What about the population share of investment within Wales? You’ve referred to £1 billion having been invested or earmarked to date for these three metro projects, yet, of that £1,000 million, only £50 million has been allocated to north Wales. That’s a gross disparity in investment by your Welsh Labour Government. What are you going to do to make sure that there’s a fair share of investment coming to north Wales, rather than the insulting and paltry amount that you’ve suggested is going there today?

Well, Darren Millar never misses an opportunity to sow division and try and create a sense of grievance—

This is your division that you've sown.

It’s the first time I’ve heard him make a case for rail investment in north Wales. As I say, he’s normally obsessed with putting money into road-building schemes, despite then going on to plead for the plight of the red squirrel, which—by the way, if we don’t tackle change, biodiversity will be threatened. So, there’s a disconnect in his argument and his thinking too.

As I said, the state of the metros in different parts of Wales are different. We have to raise ambition and delivery right across Wales. That’s what our Wales transport strategy is about, which he hasn’t supported. That’s what our investment in the metro is about, which he hasn’t supported. And that’s what the announcement today about the delivery board for north Wales is about. I’d be grateful if he’d support that.

Thank you, Minister. I welcome the announcement of the delivery board, but it has to deliver. Now, it is clear to me that the UK Government are selling north Wales short by not electrifying the main line, so I would be interested to know what discussions you’ve had, Minister, about improving signals and signal crossings as a way of improving that line. I’d also like to understand what plans you and Transport for Wales have got to introduce bi-modal and tri-modal rolling stock in north Wales to help with the increase in frequency within the region.

Now, it was my understanding, Minister, that part of the metro was always rapid bus transit. Now, to me, without the red route, we will not have dedicated bus lanes to allow this to happen. Now, you have made some exemptions for roads in your review. Have you considered exempting the red route and its bus lanes?

And finally, Minister, do you support the efforts by the Mersey Dee Alliance to build a comprehensive active travel network? And with the glare of the Presiding Officer, I will end there. [Laughter.]

Well, I've got to say there’s nothing stopping the local authorities in north Wales from developing an ambitious active travel network now, nor indeed putting in bus lanes. That power has been there all along, and there’s money available to do it. So, that’s why I want to set up this delivery unit, so that we are acting far better together in pushing in the same direction.

The red route, as Jack Sargeant knows full well, is part of the roads review, and one of the purposes of the roads review is to look at how we can prioritise investment on maintaining existing infrastructure, but also creating the investment we need to create things like rapid transit bus routes and improvements in public transport more generally. So, I’m not going to guess what the roads review is going to come up with about the red route, but it’s in the pot with almost everything else to try to shift our direction of travel.

In terms of infrastructure, in terms of rail—trains, rather—on the north Wales network, we are currently progressing the class 230 trains for the Wrexham and Bidston line later this year, and we’ve introduced refurbished InterCity trains on services between north and south Wales, with increased capacity and better customer services. We’re trailing the testing of new trains around north Wales at the moment, and I’d be happy to write the Member with further details of what plans we have.

Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I appreciate the fact that you've allowed this question. Thank you very much to the Deputy Minister for the statement. It's only now that I see the maps, but what's striking is the lack of investment and the absence of anything in our rural areas once again. Now, I understand that the maps are looking at trains, but people in rural areas are more dependent on private transport than public transport because of the absence of public transport provision in those rural areas. So, what plans do you have to expand the provision of trains in our rural communities, especially looking at the west, from Anglesey down through Meirionnydd, Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire? Thank you very much.

Well, I think we should be more diagnostic, really, when it comes to public transport in rural areas. I know there is a fixation on heavy rail trains, but, in carbon terms, we've got very tough targets to have to meet. We have to increase emission cuts in the next 10 years more than we've managed in the whole of the last 30 years, and we have a finite amount of money to do that with. So, I think we need to make very hard-headed judgments about where the money we have can make best effect when it comes to carbon savings. And it's my view that spending over £1 billion on heavy rail in rural areas is not the best way to do that.

Now, I think we can achieve significant modal shift in rural areas using different modes. So, as I mentioned in my statement, if we look at the example of rural Germany or rural Switzerland, where they have flexi buses, as we're developing in Wales, they have electric bikes, they have car clubs—there's a whole range of other things that can be done quickly, far quicker than building a heavy rail route, to give people practical alternatives to the car that wouldn't cost as much and would enable us to hit our climate change targets in a way that diverting resources into schemes like these would not.

And finally, Mark Isherwood.

Diolch. Three very short questions. You refer to the North Wales Economic Ambition Board. Given that the growth deal offer was originally a UK Government offer that the Welsh Government signed heads of terms in November 2019 with the UK Government, which is primarily focused on infrastructure and will be co-funded by the two Governments, the UK Government must already be involved in the north Wales metro, particularly on the infrastructure and cross-border connectivity. Can you confirm what that engagement is? Because I know it's sincere and ongoing from the other Government.

Do you recognise that many of the proposals in the north Wales metro actually predated the north Wales metro, coming, for example, from the economic ambition board's Growth Track 360 proposals, the proposals regarding Crewe station, which have now borne fruit, thankfully, and my connectivity with Welsh Government on behalf of rail user groups calling for the service improvements in Shotton and the new station at Deeside Parkway, which predated the announcements on the metro by many, many years?

And finally, will you join me in welcoming the announcement, at a devolved level, by Manchester in England, that the rail link from north Wales to Manchester Airport is now going to be the chosen option to be maintained as we go forward?

Well, clearly, the UK Government has a role to play in public transport in north Wales, and rail is not devolved. And, as has already been mentioned, the electrification of the north Wales line has yet to materialise. We have pushed for union connectivity funding for the delivery unit to push forward electrification of the north Wales line, and I'd appreciate Mark Isherwood's help in persuading his colleagues in Westminster to support his constituents, because they've not done that yet. We've also supported the bid by Flintshire County Council into the levelling-up fund, and we are still waiting to hear from that. So, there is absolutely a role, and we want to work constructively with the UK Government to make this happen.

The UK Government have published plans for a 'Great British Railways', as they're calling it, and properly done—and if it's not just flag waving, it is actually about improving delivery matters—properly done, that could improve partnership working. We supported the recommendation of the House of Commons Welsh Affairs Committee for a joint delivery board between England and Wales to take these things forward, and we'd very much like to work in partnership with them on that. But partnership is a two-way thing, and responsibility for rail infrastructure is not devolved, and the UK Government is not delivering.

I thank the Deputy Minister, and thank you, everyone. We will now suspend proceedings to allow changeovers in the Siambr. If you are leaving the Siambr, please do so promptly. The bell will be rung two minutes before proceedings restart. Any Members who arrive after a changeover should wait until then before entering the Siambr.

Plenary was suspended at 15:55.

The Senedd reconvened at 16:06, with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.