Welcome back. The next item is a statement by the Minister for Climate Change, net-zero strategy. And I call on the Minister for Climate Change, Julie James. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The challenge presented to Wales by the climate emergency is not simply to eliminate greenhouse gas emissions and protect communities against the impact of more intense weather, as significant a challenge as these represent. The challenge is to make the transition to net zero into a set of opportunities to make Wales stronger, greener and fairer. Between 2018 and 2021, our legal targets for decarbonisation, agreed by the Senedd, were brought forward by over a decade. This means we need to achieve greater emissions reduction in the next 10 years than we have in the last 30 years.

Whilst it is easy to agree on the need for decisions to be made, there remain both practical obstacles and, in some cases, outright opposition to taking some of the specific steps to shift our economy onto a net-zero trajectory. The case we have to make is that, whilst there are short to medium-term challenges, the benefits to Wales in making the transition will far outweigh any disbenefits along the way.

Such a transition will not be delivered by relying purely on technology and free markets to provide all of the solutions for us. Our net-zero plan for carbon budget 2 is designed to help mobilise collective action and deliver a planned approach that reflects our duties under the Well-being of Future Generations Act (Wales) 2015—a just transition, in which workers are supported to gain the skills and opportunities to play a leading role, prioritising nature-based solutions to make ecosystems more resilient, developing shorter and more circular supply chains that reduce our consumption of natural resources, avoiding waste and retaining more value in local economies.

The plan covers Wales's territorial emissions, and therefore action from UK Government is needed in those areas for which they are responsible. We regret the lack of engagement we have had from the UK Government in the development of their net-zero plan and the lack of measures in last week’s spending review to support action on climate. By setting out clearly our expectations of UK Government action in our plan, we believe we are providing a constructive challenge, which I hope the Senedd will endorse.

The net-zero plan we published last week is the product of engagement and consultation that has taken place over the last three years, from formal policy consultations and Senedd scrutiny to initiatives like the Blaenau Gwent climate assembly. The evidence gathered to inform the Wales 2050 calculator indicate that delivering on our ambition will achieve a 44 per cent emissions reduction by 2025, outperforming the 37 per cent target recommended by the Climate Change Committee. The plan is not, however, the final word. Further ideas and action will be needed to achieve further emissions reduction, both in this Senedd term and to lay the foundations for achieving Wales's 2030 target. Globally, emissions are still rising, and every additional reduction in emissions we can achieve will make a difference.

Our plan is more than a set of proposed investments and regulations. It sets out the ways in which we will work collectively with industry, with other public bodies and with communities to deliver upon and further strengthen our ambitions. This approach can be illustrated by the approach we are taking to two of the most significant challenges to delivering net zero in Wales.

The first is the approach we are taking to eliminating emissions from Wales's homes. We could see the market was not delivering the right technologies at the necessary scale to meet the challenge of housing decarbonisation and climate adaptation in Wales. Our approach has been to use Welsh Government investment in social housing as a means to shift the wider housing market through our optimised retrofit programme. A further £50 million of investment into this scheme has been made available in this year, in addition to the £20 million I announced last winter, to test ways of decarbonising existing social homes, developing proof of concepts that can be rolled out beyond social housing.

Today, I can announce that £50 million of this annual funding will be extended for the next three years, reflecting the Welsh Government’s firm commitment to this issue and giving industry the certainty that will enable it to plan for the future, developing the skills and supply chains that will enable the successful decarbonisation of Welsh homes. The success of this scheme does come in part from the Government investment, but, critically, it also comes from the commitment of social landlords, of small and medium-sized enterprises and of third sector organisations, who shape our plans and deliver on the ground. By working with those partners and drawing on their expertise we can develop the right approaches for the diverse range of housing types in Wales.

The funding we provide will require applicants to demonstrate how they have adopted a Wales-first approach to supply chain establishment and growth. This includes making use of Welsh timber in support of our aim to grow a sustainable, high-value, high-skilled timber industry. We intend to support energy-positive homes, in which tenants’ homes generate enough energy for their own needs and surpluses to be sold to the grid, boosting household income and putting money directly into tenants’ pockets. This approach shows that, where Government works collectively with businesses, other public bodies and communities, even the most complex decarbonisation challenges can be addressed in a way that delivers benefits to social justice and local economic benefits, as well as emissions reductions.

A second policy challenge is the need to virtually eliminate fossil fuels from energy generation. The Welsh Government is the only Government in the UK, and one of the only Governments in the world, to have in place a policy position to oppose the extraction of fossil fuels. We have committed not to permit any new petroleum licences for exploration or production in Wales. Our coal policy states our intention to bring a managed end to the extraction of coal in Wales as soon as feasibly possible. We will oppose new fossil-fuelled power stations in Wales and any other replacement power plant that emits greenhouse gases in its operations. This robust stance in policy and regulation is an important Welsh Government contribution to moving away from the use of fossil fuels in our energy system, and I hope that other Governments in the UK and around the world can take courage from Wales's lead.

Our net-zero plan includes our aim to have in place detailed local energy plans across the whole of Wales, and to be the first country to have a fully co-ordinated and integrated approach to developing energy networks that do not rely on fossil fuels. Our planned approach is designed to bring together public bodies, regulators, infrastructure operators, businesses and third sector organisations around a shared agenda that we can deliver collectively. As well as helping to ensure investments in our energy infrastructure are efficient and maximise local benefit, the process of producing these plans delivers far more than Welsh Government could achieve by regulation alone.

As we welcome world leaders to the UK for COP26, we can be confident that Wales has the determination and ingenuity to deliver change that benefits not only the natural world, but also delivers equality and social justice. I'll be travelling to COP26 later this week to showcase climate action in Wales and to learn from others too. I hope this statement today provides the Senedd with an opportunity to welcome the measures we have committed to take, to urge us to go further and faster where there are opportunities to do so, and to join with us in calling on all public bodies, businesses and communities in Wales to join with us in delivering social justice through our transition to a net-zero Wales. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. 

Conservatives' spokesperson, Janet Finch-Saunders. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The Rt Hon Boris Johnson MP, our Prime Minister, certainly had his finger on the pulse when he stated, and I quote:

'Humanity has long since run down the clock on climate change. It's one minute to midnight on that...clock and we need to act now.' 

Now, that message also applies to this Government, especially in light of some of the concerns and failings, actually, of the net-zero Wales carbon budget 2021-25. Now, I do welcome the announcement in relation to the optimised retrofit programme and the benefit that this will bring to social housing. But I have to ask you, Minister: what about the 900,000 owner-occupier homes in Wales? Your key delivery mechanism, the Warm Homes programme, between 2011 and 2023 is only expected to reach 79,000 homes. So, would you revise the eligibility criteria for Arbed and Nest so to help even more homes to become even more energy efficient?

Now, you rightly highlight the need for action on energy generation. So, to be clear, the UK Government has brought forward its commitment to remove unabated coal from the UK's energy mix by a whole year to 2024. So, whilst I welcome the continued moratorium on any future large-scale energy-from-waste developments, I'm asking, really, why does policy 19 not stop small-scale schemes also, with an exception for dangerous waste? Policy 22 looks to increase renewable energy developments in Wales by pointing us towards 'Future Wales'. That document has 10 pre-assessed areas for wind energy, where there is a presumption in favour of large-scale wind energy development. So, why did you not, as the Welsh Government and as the Minister, pre-assess some areas for hydro energy? And can you clarify how these projects will contact to the grid, if pursued? I think we all know the problems that we have here in Wales with the grid.

Why are you making Wales wait until the end of 2022 for you to set out a plan for innovation in new renewable energy technology? And it is fair to say that it's quite poor form that, two years on from the publication of the Welsh national marine plan, you are still yet to set a target in policy 24 to identify potential strategic resource areas for marine renewable energy by 2023.

Why has it taken four years to create strategic resource areas? And will you be making a commitment to creating a marine development plan, which, as the RSPB have called for, for quite some time now, would be a statutory document that guides development into specific locations? Now, according to policy 27, you aim to maximise Welsh benefit from commercially operated infrastructure projects in Wales. So, if the Welsh Government is serious about nuclear energy, how can it be that your own development company, Cwmni Egino, announced over a year ago—I hope I've pronounced that all right—and allocated £2.5 million, still does not have a formal business plan?

Policy 30 reiterates your long-term ambition to enable around 30 per cent of Welsh workers to work remotely. Now, if that is truly a Wales target, why is £100,000 of the £500,000 being invested still in six flexible working sites by 2025 going to locations in the Valleys only?

So, moving on, I support the aim of policy 31 to increase trip mode share of active travel, and whilst I see there is an aim to create a commuter cycleway between Cardiff and Newport, why can we not be starting schemes in north and mid Wales too? In Aberconwy, we could have an active travel route stretching from Llandudno Junction to Betws-y-Coed. However, after two decades of work, we're still only at Welsh transport appraisal guidance stage 2 for a major section of this. So, why don't you work in your capacity as the Minister to simplify the nightmare that is reaching the point of shovel-ready active travel schemes?

And finally, we welcome the aim of policy 32, as I've said, to increase trip mode share of public transport. However, will you clarify why only £50 million is allocated to the north Wales metro, while south Wales is to receive £1 billion? Together, we all need to work and see every sector and area of Wales move faster on climate change, but, Minister, I'd be really grateful if you could answer those observations and questions. Thank you. Diolch.

Diolch, Janet. Thank you, Janet. I do admire, Janet, your attempt to champion the Prime Minister in his pronouncements on greening the world. If only he put his money where his mouth is. We know that in the last budget, the Chancellor didn't even mention the word 'climate'. We know that they've decreased the ability of people to go on rail, whilst increasing the ability of people to go on planes, and we know that he himself left Glasgow to go back to London on a plane. So, this is all about your actions, as well as what you say out loud. I don't think that Boris Johnson is, unfortunately, doing Britain proud at all at the moment in terms of what he's proposing to the world.

I also have to say that the refusal to put a moratorium on coal and the refusal to engage with us in changing the remit of the Coal Authority, so that it no longer has a duty to promote coal extraction in the United Kingdom, and even in Wales, which we have been asking them to do for a very long time, is not really indicative of the sort of action we'd like to see. However, I didn't want to strike a note of that kind of dissension.

What we are saying here in our net-zero plan is that, together, across Wales, we can bring things to bear that really will make a difference. So, I think that Janet actually mentioned herself a number of things that I would like to highlight in that regard. So, on coal, we obviously do have a policy here of no further extraction of coal across Wales. She mentioned energy from waste—'waste to energy', as it used to be called when I was in the industry. We absolutely oppose new incinerators and so on; however, some waste will need to be incinerated—she mentioned herself some forms of clinical waste and so on. So, it is important to make sure that we get the right kind of incineration and that we generate renewable energy where waste does need to be incinerated for particular types.

However, I will raise at this point the remarks that Boris Johnson made about recycling, where he seemed to disparage the idea that recycling was a good thing. What he wasn't able to see as part of that was, of course, it's not just about the separation and collection of recycling; it's about what you do with the recyclate. The whole point of recycling is that you put it back into use as the product that it was made. We have enough plastic already in the world to keep us going in plastic products for as far into the future as mankind can foresee. What we need to do is be very good at recycling it and getting the reprocessers here in Wales to recycle it for us into products that can be recycled over and over again, because in Wales we know that people want to come on that journey with us, where you reuse, of course, first, and then recycle second. So, I do think it's important to make sure that we don't disparage individual efforts to do the right thing in making really quite ill-advised pronouncements, I would say, about some of the things that we need to do in the world.

We have some big things to do, as well. She was right to highlight wind energy and the issues with the grid. Again, I think the UK Government could benefit from a proper conversation with both us and the Scottish Government about the way that the national grid currently runs, because it's not a national grid, it's a grid run by four big producers and it's not done in the way that we would like, futureproofed, it's done on the basis of being driven by contractual arrangements. We've had some really useful conversations with grid producers and with Ofgem so far, and I hope very much that we will be able to get the grid into a good place where we can plan for the future, so that communities right across Wales can, for example, have the kind of EV charging points that we'd like to see and, frankly, the broadband backhaul that we'd like to see as well, because the grid is fit for purpose, as well as of course needing upgrading in north and south Wales. So, I completely agree with that.

In terms of the working from home things that she mentioned, of course we have targets for that. My colleague Lee Waters has emphasised on a number of occasions that this doesn't mean that everybody works from home all the time, but that you work from home when you can or that you work locally to you, if your home isn't suitable, in small local hubs. But, of course, what will be very important for that is broadband. As my colleague Lee Waters says, broadband is not devolved to Wales but we have stepped into the gap the UK Government made when it failed to put geographical coverage as part of its provision for broadband across Wales, whereas the Welsh Government has stepped up to that.

So, what we have done is a suite of measures in this plan that set out where we are now, that set out our proposals for the future and set out what we'd like our communities to do. Optimised retrofit is a very good example of that. Excuse me, I'm very much struggling with this cough, I'm afraid, Dirprwy Lywydd. The optimised retrofit is a very good example of that. So, rather than announcing air-source heat pumps for all, we know that each house will be different. Some houses will be suitable for air-source heat pumps, and we will have schemes in order to allow those houses to transition to that. But what we're doing is running a programme to figure out what each type of house in Wales requires to bring it up to the highest possible EPC rating that it can achieve. It's not a one size fits all, it's not a cheap pronouncement, but a hard slog alongside our registered social landlords and council partners to figure out what works and then sort out how we can make people transition to that. And of course, at that point, we will then be able to put grant schemes in place that allow our private sector landlords and our owner-occupier tenancies to come along that journey with us. But, rather than just announcing a grant scheme that will not work, we are doing the hard yards with our partners to make sure that, for Wales, we will have a net-zero plan that actually is robust and will actually deliver the benefits that we want.

Minister, if you're struggling with your cough and you're finding it difficult to speak because of it sometimes, please feel free to be very succinct in your answers. [Laughter.]

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you, Minister; I really hope that your throat is okay.

We live in a time of crisis, and the challenge that we face is known to us all. I welcome this strategy today as a starting point, as was the declaration of a climate emergency and a nature emergency; that was also a starting point, offering an opportunity to lay some foundations. However, as with the previous statements that I've mentioned, there are areas where I would like to see some more clarity.

Some have suggested that there is a lack of ambition at the core of this strategy, or a lack of innovation. Could the Minister please state how many of the policies in the plan are new, and how many have been carried over from previous plans? People need to understand plans also in order to take action, but recent research shows that only 24 per cent of businesses say that they understand enough about the environmental policies of the Government. So, how will the Government improve that situation?

Secondly, I would like to see more clarity about how you will measure progress. There is a delay, or a time lag, of about two years in respect of the emissions data, so it's not always entirely clear what impact the various policies in the first low-carbon plan have had. So, may I ask, in the absence of reliable or up-to-date data, how will the Government measure whether it's meeting these important targets? How has this consideration affected the plan placed before us today? Also, shouldn't we be aiming to improve the monitoring systems that we have to give us a clearer picture of how the scheme is developing?

Minister, I'd like to also ask about the UK Government. You've said previously that your department had little warning before the UK Government published the net-zero plan. As I understand, it was a matter of only hours. Could you tell us how this has affected how the strategy will interplay with the UK strategy? It might be useful for us to know your assessment of the extent to which the success of your strategy is dependent on action from the UK Government.

And finally, Minister, I'd like to ask about the Crown Estate. I'm sure Members in the Chamber and online will agree that, if we're to maximise our chances of reaching net zero, we have to have our own resources under our control. The Crown Estate's control of our sea bed and large tracts of land as well means that Wales doesn't have oversight of those resources. Some estimates show the UK Government could raise up to £9 billion over the next decade from auctioning sea-bed plots to windfarm developers. Powers over the Crown Estate are devolved to Scotland, but the millions of pounds of revenue brought in by the estate in Wales go to the Treasury and the monarch. That can't be right, Minister. So, I know the First Minister today has expressed an openness to the idea of seeking the devolution of these powers, so could you, Minister, tell us how much of a priority that will be for the Government please? And if it's not going to be a priority, how much do you estimate that these plans will be hampered as a result?195

I hope I've given you enough of a break for your throat. [Laughter.]

Diolch, Delyth. Yes, so, just in terms of how many are new and how many are not, the plan is a snapshot in time that fulfills a statutory requirement. We expect existing policies and proposals to be updated to increase their impact, and we expect new ideas to emerge as our understanding of the evidence improves. So, it's not a be-all and end-all thing against which we'll test everything; it's a living, breathing document, and we're going to go out after COP—. We're going to COP to get a lot of new ideas, we hope. I know many people are going to COP virtually, as well as in person, to get those new ideas, and we'll have Wales Climate Week at the end of November to try to pull all of those ideas together and get the vibrancy of COP, but then we'll have a whole series of events next year, where we go out to new engagement and we test some of the things that we've got to say. So, this isn't meant to be a thing that we measure it against; this is a rolling, iterative programme of things that we're going to do. So, I think it's important to understand that. 

So, the full plan will not be updated on a regular basis; we'll update bits of it as we go along. So, you'd expect to see the transport bit updated when there's a new development in electric buses, for example; you'd expect to see the housing bit updated if there's a new progressive way of doing photovoltaics in Wales, as I really hope there will be, as I saw something really exciting when we launched the plan last Thursday that I'm hoping we'll be able to invest in. So, you'll expect to see bits of it surge ahead as we get to grips with that. And part of that will be engagement. One of the big programmes we've got for next week is behaviour change and engagement, and we expect to see the plan evolve as we engage with our communities and we evolve new ways of engaging people in what we need to do. And I don't mean individuals only there; I mean industrial clusters, business clusters, communities of interest, geographic communities, and so on. So, there is a whole engagement plan to go with that. 

In terms of data, we're working very hard to make sure that the data is the best that we can get, that we understand what it looks like. We'll absolutely upgrade that every five years, as we're required to do, but we'll do that as often and as iteratively as we can, given where we are with the data collection. And you're right, there is a lag in it, so we need to develop as many good ways of making sure we've got the best data we can get. We absolutely do not want to be congratulating ourselves that we've done well off the back of data that's not telling us that. That's not what this is about. So, we absolutely do want to do that. 

And then the last thing I think you said was the thing about the Crown Estate. I agree, we would like very much for it to be devolved. We're certainly going to talk to them about that. But, in the meantime, I have engaged with the Crown Estate. I've had a couple of meetings with them already. They're very anxious to talk to us, and we're engaging with them to make sure that we have them on board. We understand what we need to do to enter into arrangements with the Crown Estate to be able to put floating wind, for example, and tidal flow and various other things out onto land currently owned by the Crown Estate around Wales, and to liaise with them, with the grid and with Ofgem to make sure that we've got the connections into Wales. Because the other thing we absolutely do not want is to find that Welsh waters are hosting floating wind, for example, but the connections are going across to Devon because the connection to the grid here isn't good enough. To be fair, I've had a very good set of meetings with the Crown Estate, as have my officials, in engagement on how to do that. So, we're doing the sub-optimal thing while we work on the optimal thing that I completely agree with you about.

Have I taken the Deputy Presiding Officer by surprise in my succinctness?

No, Huw Irranca-Davies has not been unmuted yet. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Diolch and good afternoon, Minister. I fully welcome the statement today, particularly on the back of the launch of the Wales net-zero strategy. As you've said, it's a live document, but it shows a really high level of ambition, and it will drive some really serious changes in the way that we live and that we work and that we travel. It carries implications for all of us, but they are things that can be practically achieved if we have a will to do it and we get the seriousness of what is going on in COP at this very moment and the challenge ahead of us. Can I ask one simple question, Minister? This has come from a young constituent of mine. These changes that we need are huge and they're urgent, and we all need to be part of that change. As Wales's First Minister joins COP26 today to show the ambition of Wales to tackle climate change, what changes will the Welsh Government and its own agencies demand of themselves to show this real high-level commitment and leadership to achieve net zero?

Thank you, Huw. That's an excellent question, and it's always true that the young people ask us the most difficult questions. I'm afraid there's not a really simple answer, but I can give you a sort of combination answer, and it's this: it's to challenge ourselves every single time we make a decision across all of the Welsh estate, all of the Welsh Government's actions: 'Is this thing that we're doing not only not going to harm our environment, but is it going to enhance our environment and lower our emissions?' So, the way that we ask our agencies—NRW, for example, and the way they manage our woodland estate: 'Is that optimal? Is there a better way to do it?'

We've already embarked on that. We've already done the deep dive into trees, we've already started to review our policy on forestry and the way that we plant and harvest our renewable resource in trees, and the way that we plan our national forest, for example. Another example is we've already changed the way that we own and manage land in the Welsh Government's ownership, so we now no longer manage the land for its maximum financial value; we manage it for its maximum public value. Those are things that we're spreading out into all our procurement arrangements across the Welsh estate.

Those things might sound a bit dry, but they are the things that drive the difference in how we do things. For example, if we're bringing a piece of development land forward and it has trees that have grown on it because it's been undeveloped for a little while, then we expect the development to replace those trees—if not on site, then on other suitable land in Wales. We need to make sure that we absolutely replace like-for-like land that is used for development with other land.

You'll know that overnight, for example, the first outcome of the roads review has taken place. We're going to work with communities in Gwynedd to make sure that we bring forward economic development plans that are not based on tarmacking a large part of the countryside, but that are based on green jobs, green development and green infrastructure. These things are hard to do, they make people cross at first, but we absolutely have to do them if we're going to have the impact on the climate that we want.

Thank you, Minister. Thank you very much for all of the work that you've done. I'd like to pay tribute to you and the Welsh Government in your work and in publishing your second carbon budget in the weeks running up to the COP summit in Glasgow. I want to also say that I will both be an ally to you when you're pushing forward with this ambitious green agenda, but also holding you to account as well if I feel that you are moving too slowly. It's really imperative that we work together here, that we don't criticise each other, that we look at how we can learn from—as you've said—other countries and other schemes in order to move forward this agenda as quickly as possible. I also want to say that I agree with this approach to not building more roads. I support this approach to not building roads, because fundamentally, if we're serious about achieving a net-zero Wales, then we must start to shift people off the roads and to using public transport. So, it is such a shame, isn't it, that the Conservative Westminster Government are intent on ploughing ahead—

Can we have a question now, please?

I want to ask the Minister about micro hydro projects. We have lost the funding to these in Wales and I wondered if you might consider restarting the hydropower grant scheme so that we can ensure that Wales meets its commitments to reach net zero. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you, Jane. I appreciate the sentiments, and I absolutely want to work alongside everybody in the Senedd, but also actually want to have our feet held to the fire; we absolutely do need to go as fast as we can, and it's very important that the Government is urged to go faster where that's appropriate. I very much look forward to working with you with that set of criteria in mind.

In terms of micro hydro, I had a very good meeting with a hydro group in Wales very recently. We've invited them to sit on one of the round-tables that my colleague Lee Waters is conducting as part of his deep dive into renewable energy, and part of the outcome of the deep dive will be to look at how we put grants in place for community and micro projects across Wales. So, I expect that to be part of the outcome of the deep dive, and we absolutely are ensuring that hydro is a big part of that.

I also thank the Minister for her statement. First, can I request that the science is explained? It is net zero rather than zero because we exhale carbon dioxide. Carbon is oxidised to form carbon dioxide. We know that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas because, despite being substantially further away from the sun than Mercury, Venus is hotter. The difference is that Venus has an atmosphere made up mainly from carbon dioxide. I have four requested actions: reduce Welsh Government Ministers' travel using virtual visits and meetings to set an example; ban the extraction of peat and the use of peat in Wales; set annual net tree planting targets at local authority level; and set an expectation that those in administrative positions in Welsh Government-funded bodies work from home or a local hub over half the time, with exception reports produced for the Welsh Government. Finally, I hope the next COP meeting is a virtual meeting with zero travel.

Diolch, Mike. I can very succinctly go through those. I'm very happy to say that we are very actively working on reducing Welsh Government travel and doing virtual meetings where at all possible. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to see something on the ground, but most of the meetings that we do are virtual.

In terms of peat restoration, we have a plan for that. There's a biodiversity plan for that, and I'm hoping to bring forward a specific item on peat and peatland restoration to the Senedd. It'll be in the new year now, I think. I'm looking actively to work on that.

On tree planting, part of the tree deep dive outcomes will be reported back to the Senedd shortly, and I'm very keen to be looking at different ways of ensuring that we have targets across the piece. In particular, Mike, I know you'll be interested in us making sure that we have the right kinds of green infrastructure for development projects, and in particular for housing and industrial development projects in Wales to include the right kinds of green infrastructure—trees where that's appropriate, but actually grassland and pollinator plants, for example, along highway verges and other places where that's appropriate as well, bearing in mind that they sequester carbon as well.

In terms of working from home, my colleague Lee Waters has been working on the working from home strategy for some time. I'm sure he was listening to the 50 per cent target. We are actively considering how we can encourage more public sector workers from right across Wales—and indeed the private sector, too, but the public sector is where we have a more direct influence—to work from home for the majority of their time.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I broadly welcome the Welsh Government's net-zero plan and would like to put on record my support for the continued ambition to deliver net zero in both Wales and the UK by 2050. One of the key factors in delivering on this plan, as I'm sure the Minister will be in agreement with, is how the aims contained within it will be funded. This is a particularly important point given that the Government's best estimate is that meeting net zero will lead to additional costs of between £10 billion and £16 billion in total over the period to 2050. I'm not trying to score any cheap political points here, Minister, and I hope you'll be able to respond in a similar manner, but I would be interested to understand how your climate change department is working with the Welsh Treasury as well as the UK Treasury to better understand the financial implications of achieving net zero, and how to fund it.

Secondly, the plan notes that councils in Wales will play an important role in cutting emissions. Noting that I'm still a sitting councillor in Monmouthshire, I would appreciate further information about what additional long-term support may be provided to councils to help them achieve this.

The final point that I'd like to raise, Minister, is how Wales can attract more private investment to achieve net zero. It is my understanding from what has been reported that the proposed Blue Eden project in Swansea, which will include the tidal lagoon, will not require taxpayers' money, and it's these sorts of cutting-edge projects that we should be encouraging. What steps is the Government taking to attract private sector investment into green initiatives in Wales? And I do hope you feel better soon, Minister. Diolch.

Diolch, Peter. I hope I feel better soon, too. Thank you for that. You've absolutely put your finger on the pulse of that, of course. We absolutely have to use public sector funding as leverage to lever in private sector funding across Wales. You referenced the Swansea project; that's a very good example. So far, I think it's fair to say, the Swansea project doesn't need any public funding. However, we're in discussion with Swansea and a number of other local authorities about which parts of the projects may indeed require public subsidy. For example, depending on what the energy generation looks like, I'm sure that they will be looking for contract for difference from the UK Government. We already know that they will require some additional public expenditure for infrastructure cost. However, the project is a good one. It's primarily funded by private investors so far. It would be really great to see it come to fruition in my colleague Mike Hedges's constituency—I think it is primarily located there. It relies on a company that thinks it can produce something that's both affordable and credible in terms of generation of power via solar, as I understand it, and battery storage on land. It's a good alliance of private sector companies with the council as a partner—so, the public sector partner underpinning it—and it's certainly something that we're keeping an eye on as it goes forward.

We have a number of other arrangements of that sort. For example, the innovative housing programme is a really good one. One of the things we do with the innovative housing programme is we encourage private sector developers and investors to come forward, with public funding that de-risks the initial commercialisation of a project. They do a proof of concept that then allows them to scale it up and attract private investment. So, one of the things I was delighted to be able to do through the innovative housing project, for example, was do the proof of concept we have in my colleague Rebecca Evans's constituency of an all-timber Welsh house. She and I have visited the project a number of times. If you haven't visited, I would recommend it to you, just to prove the fact that you could build an entire house out of Welsh wood. Now that company has proof of concept and, of course, it can start to look for private sector investors to develop the concept further. So, absolutely, using de-risking public funding to lever in private sector funding is where we need to go, because you're absolutely right in identifying that this is an agenda that we simply cannot do on public funding alone; we absolutely have to get every community in Wales, including private sector funders, on board with it.  

I'd like to declare that I'm a councillor on Rhondda Cynon Taf council before asking this question. In response to the statement, I wanted to ask about the dualling of the A4119 from Coed-Ely to Ynysmaerdy, a project that was announced last week as one of those looking to receive £11.4 million through the levelling-up fund of the British Government. Obviously, this stems from a bid that was made by a council controlled by the Labour Party. Indeed, the Welsh Government has contributed to the development of the project in the past through the local transport fund. How does this fit with the Welsh Government's review of investment in new roads? Indeed, is this scheme part of that review? If not, why not? And, if so, what is the view of the Minister in terms of the fact that the Welsh Government's policy is being undermined by the British Government in this way?  

Thank you very much for that question, Heledd. I'm not entirely certain how it aligns with the net-zero plan, but I think the answer to your question is that the roads review has within its sights all projects that are funded by local transport grants and Welsh public funding. However, the roads review will look to see whether a road is so far advanced that it cannot usefully be brought into the review because of the advancement of contracts and diggers in the ground, or whatever the colloquial phrase used is—that it is so advanced that there is no point in reviewing it. That is a matter for the review itself and not for Welsh Government Ministers. They are independent in that regard, and I'm sure that when they announce the set of roads that they've reviewed, they'll be able to say which roads are in and which roads are out.  

In terms of the funding of devolved areas inside Wales, the levelling up fund is, I'm afraid, an absolute cacophony of UK Government funding right across devolved areas for reasons that we're not entirely sure about. What we are sure about—and my colleague Rebecca Evans I know will be updating the Senedd on this during the budget discussions—is that we are not getting anything like the amount of money we would have got if the 'not a penny less of EU funding' promise had been made good. We're getting very considerably less, and the UK Government is also not using our well-developed regional investment arrangements. My colleague Huw Irranca-Davies worked very hard in the last Senedd on getting a consensus view across Wales on what regional developments needed to take place, and this so-called levelling-up fund has ridden a coach and horses through all of that for what I think is, and my friend Alun Davies earlier on in today's proceedings called, 'pork-barrel politics', and I have to say I entirely agree with him.

I do welcome this statement from the Minister, so I thank the Minister for that. It's absolutely right that our minds are focused on the changes that we all have to make to reach net zero, but I do believe it's going to take some bold and tough decisions to reach the true net zero, and I'd like this to be reflected in everything we do as Governments and everything we do in society. One of the key areas I see is public sector pension investments, and I'd be very keen to encourage the Minister, her officials, and Members from across the Chamber to read my piece for the Welsh Fabians, which has been published today on this. Now, Minister, I do recognise that we don't have the competence to do this, but I do believe there are other ways of achieving this. For example, we could include public sector pension fund investments in our carbon neutral public sector targets in 2030. Now, this would provide, in my opinion, the impetus to the campaign and send signals to public sector investment funds to create products that don't invest in oil and gas. So, therefore, do I have your support, Minister, and the influence of your ministry for climate change—the Welsh Government's ministry for climate change—to help strengthen this campaign as we take it forward?

Diolch, Jack. I think the very simple answer to that is 'yes'. I think we absolutely need to make sure that the public sector across Wales, including its pension funds, de-invest from deforestation and oil and gas exploration as fast as possible. I'm not yet aware of the full detail of the deforestation announcements that have been made from COP26, but I fervently hope that they do include things like the investment of pension funds from the public sector and so on, and I will certainly be working alongside my colleague, Rebecca Evans, to put pressure on the UK Government to make sure that we do invest UK pension funds in the right way. You are absolutely right in identifying it as being outside of our competence, but nevertheless we are happy to bring our influence to bear in that regard.

I welcome the ambition that's been referred to here this afternoon. Let us hope that it doesn't suffer the same fate as the ambition that your Government had of eradicating child poverty in Wales. Time will tell, of course. Forgive my cynicism; every time I hear the Government here announcing things on climate change and talking about difficult decisions and the need for everyone to pull their weight, what I hear is the call on farmers to constantly cut emissions, to do more, and calls on rural communities to do more, whilst you don't touch upon the millionaires and multinationals and heavy industry that are doing most damage to our climate. I would like to hear more about the pressure that you're putting on multinationals and the very wealthy to pull their weight in this regard.

Yes, there are very difficult decisions to be made. How do you reconcile your statement yesterday on the Llanbedr link road with your plan to dual the A465 at the Heads of the Valleys? I note that this work started just a month before the moratorium, thereby enabling you to continue the dualling of this huge road, which will allow vehicles to travel at 70 mph. Yes, there are difficult decisions to be made. Are you willing to take that decision to prevent that work and cease it to ensure that that doesn't develop, for the benefit of communities in Wales?

Can you conclude now, please?

A final question, therefore. If we do want to see the alleviation of climate change and real things happening in our rural communities, then that has to go hand in hand with investment in public transport for our communities, and, more than that, in public services in our communities. It's fine for you to ask some octogenarian in Llanbedr to ride a bike some four miles to the nearest surgery in Harlech, but that doesn't meet the fundamental problems that there aren't such services available in our communities. So, will you work with the Minister for Economy and ensure that community services are provided in our rural communities? Thank you.

Diolch, Mabon. I don't share your cynicism, I'm afraid, and I'm very sorry to hear you express it in that way. I understand the disappointment of the people in Gwynedd about the Llanbedr bypass. We had a decent meeting with Gwynedd Council yesterday and we will absolutely be sure to be working very closely with them alongside my colleagues, the Minister for Economy and the Minister for local government, to ensure that this isn't about cost saving, this is about doing economic development in a green way, bringing green jobs to the area and making sure—exactly as you say—that public services and public transport are funded, rather than the road. The road would've cost several million pounds. We are very, very happy to work with Gwynedd Council to see how we can invest that money in local greening services to make sure that we do have a public transport infrastructure that works for the people of Gwynedd.

The idea that we're somehow leaving out the millionaires and the high emitters I just reject altogether. Of course we expect people to do what's necessary; it's pointless me saying to the vast majority of people who live in the Valleys of Wales that they should stop taking their private jets to Glasgow, for example, as I'm pretty sure that none of them have ever been on a private jet to Glasgow, so that's not going to cut their emissions very much. It's horses for courses here. Of course, if you're a frequent flyer, you should very seriously consider not flying or flying so frequently, but for the vast majority of people in Wales, they are not frequent flyers, or flyers at all. Very large numbers of people don't even own a car. So, this is about making sure that we have the right platforms in place for everyone to be able to do their piece, and the right policies in place to make sure that we have the just transition that I know, Mabon, that you want, as well as myself. So, I'm very happy to pledge to work with you on a plan to make sure that we bring the better public services and public transport to all of the people of Wales, including in our rural communities, of course.

And finally, Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you. Unlike Delyth Jewell, I found that the net-zero plan was absolutely packed with new facts, analyses and firm commitments, so I thank you very much for the rigour of the work that has gone into that very large report.

I welcome the opportunity to hold the Government's feet to the fire, as well as being open to new ideas and actions. I do think that we are letting the private sector off the hook when it comes to decarbonising our housing. I was disturbed to read not only that Rent Smart Wales reports that there are 109,000 private sector rented homes that are below energy rating C, and there are certainly a lot of them in my constituency. But not only that, I read in your report that there are 60,000 private rented homes without any EPC at all, so I wonder if you can tell us what Rent Smart Wales is doing to rectify that anomaly in the system, because we clearly need to know if they are even compliant with the energy rating E. 

Secondly—

And finally, I hope.

—I want to turn to part L, which is that Lord Deben was very, very strong on this when he spoke to the climate change committee in September. He said that he feels very strongly about the need for the Welsh Government to use the powers that it has on this, which is that by not moving quicker towards net-zero obligations in new homes, we are simply letting house builders off the hook. Because they are, as he says, handing the purchaser of these new homes the bill instead of doing it themselves in the first place at a very much lower price, and that does not need to increase the cost of the house itself— 

The Member must ask the second and final question.

So, what are we doing to raise the bar higher in relation to new housing, because every new house that's built that's not zero carbon has to be retrofitted? And as you explain very clearly in the net-zero plan, that is a really complicated business.

Yes, diolch, Jenny. Just on the part L, we will be bringing forward part L regulation amendments in the new year. The whole point of them will be, of course, to bring private sector housing up to the standards that new social build housing enjoys, and I look forward to negotiating that set of regulations through the Senedd. I'm sure that everybody who has contributed to today's debate feels very strongly, as you do, about what those regulations should say and what private sector housing in Wales should look like. So, we will be doing that in the new year, I assure you. I've also had a similar conversation myself with Lord Deben.

On the PRS, that's a much more difficult problem because we have to negotiate making sure that people's housing is not removed from the PRS and lost to the PRS. It houses some of the most vulnerable families in Wales.

Much of the PRS that's in very poor condition is in the centre of cities—in Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham and so on—and it tends to be the larger houses that house multigenerational families. So, what we will want to be doing is putting a grants scheme in place that allows and encourages those landlords to give those properties over to the local council, if they're stockholding councils, or the local RSL in return for the local housing allowance and rent supply, so that the RSL can bring the house up to standard. Otherwise, we fear that if we put the obligation onto the private rented sector landlords themselves, they will simply remove themselves from the sector, so we will have an unintended consequence.

So, we will be working very carefully with the National Residential Landlords Association to understand what that might look like, and understand what those incentives look like, to make sure that we both bring the houses up to standard and retain them in the private rented sector, which is, after all, a very important sector for people who are at the most vulnerable end of the housing market. 

Thank you, Minister.