The next item, therefore, is the statement by the First Minister on the British-Irish Council summit in Wales. Therefore, the First Minister to make his statement—Mark Drakeford.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. On 19 November, Friday last, Wales hosted the thirty-sixth summit of the British-Irish Council at St Fagans National Museum of History in Cardiff. The Minister for Education and the Welsh Language and I represented the Welsh Government. We were joined by representatives of all BIC member administrations either in person or via our videoconferencing systems. I welcomed leaders from the UK, Ireland, which was represented by both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man. I also held bilateral meetings with Michael Gove, who led the UK delegation, Nicola Sturgeon, First Minister of Scotland, and the Northern Ireland Executive delegation—Ministers Deirdre Hargey and Gary Middleton—as well as the newly appointed Deputy Chief Minister of the Isle of Man, Jane Poole-Wilson.

The summit took place at a particularly crucial moment for the member administrations of the British-Irish Council, in the context of recovery from the pandemic, continuing discussions between the UK and the EU, and the need for Governments to work together to take action against climate change, following COP26 in Glasgow. Our collective discussions, Dirprwy Lywydd, provided a valuable opportunity to consider latest political developments, to share experiences on tackling common challenges, and to identify ways though which we can harness the combined experience and energy of the Governments to the benefit of all the people across the islands represented. In particular, at an early-morning meeting on Friday before the main summit plenary event, we discussed ways of accelerating the collective contributions that members of the BIC could make in pursuit of the COP26 agenda. The discussion focused on the importance of citizen and community engagement in a just transition to net zero, and work is planned to share research and consider further engagement with coastal, post-industrial and rural communities in this agenda.

The formal plenary provided an opportunity to explore different perspectives on the operation of the Northern Ireland protocol and the state of relations between the constituent members of the council and the European Union. In relation to the current position on the negotiations between the UK Government and the EU, I took the opportunity to reinforce the Welsh Government's view of the importance of making progress and resolving issues through dialogue rather than unilateral action or ultimatum.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

Diprwy Lywydd, each summit focuses on a particular strand within the work of the council. The Cardiff summit took as its theme support for minority, indigenous and lesser used languages, with specific reference to early years and childcare policy. In leading this item, we were able to draw on the pioneering work in Wales on early years language education.

In keeping with this theme of the summit, and in line with the way we work in Wales as a bilingual nation, the plenary discussions were conducted on a multilingual basis. For the first time at a summit of the BIC, there was simultaneous interpretation from Welsh, Irish and Gaelic into English, which enabled delegations from Wales, Scotland, and Ireland to make contributions to the discussions using their own languages. I was also delighted that contributions in Manx, Jèrriais, and Guernésiais also featured during our conversations, which further demonstrated the rich linguistic diversity across these islands.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we also noted progress made in the implementation of proposals agreed at the thirty-fifth BIC summit in Northern Ireland in June of this year, and particularly the scope for the newly established senior officials group to support the future work of the council. The plenary also endorsed the work of the ministerial group held earlier in the year, which focused on sustainable transport arrangements, particularly in the context of climate change. A joint communiqué was issued after the summit was over.

I'd like to take this opportunity, Dirprwy Lywydd, to put on record my thanks to David Anderson, director general of Amgueddfa Cymru, National Museum Wales, and the team at St Fagans for being such excellent hosts. Holding the event at the museum provided an opportunity to demonstrate the rich cultural history of Wales in a unique and memorable location, and that was widely appreciated by the visiting delegations. The summit agreed that it will meet again in the summer of 2022, and this time on the island of Guernsey.

On behalf of the Conservatives, Darren Millar.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you, First Minister, for your statement. I think it's very welcome that you're making an oral statement to the Chamber following the summit in Wales, because, of course, usually, we tend to receive written statements only in respect of these important relationships. So, I do welcome that, and I would put on record a request, if I may, for this to be a more regular feature following British-Irish Council summits in the future. I'm also pleased to hear that the summit took place, of course, in St Fagans, something that I like to showcase visitors to Wales whenever they visit this part of the world. It truly is one of the most incredible museums, I think, in the whole of Europe, and it's always a delight to be able to see the expressions on people's faces as they learn about Wales, our culture and our history as they go around that tremendous place.

First Minister, you referred to a number of issues in your statement. Obviously, the protocol will have been something of an important issue for members of the summit to consider, and I am pleased that it does appear that is there a different mood music around the protocol at the moment, and there appears to be a great deal of willingness both on the European Commission side and the UK Government side to wanting to secure an agreement without triggering article 16. That, of course, is in everybody's interest, and I am pleased to see that that does appear now to be the case. Would you agree with me that that mood music was rather different at this particular summit than from previous discussions with Governments, both in London and Dublin, and what are your hopes and anticipations for the timescale for an agreement? 

You made reference as well, of course, to the work that the British-Irish Council has done in terms of highlighting the issue of minority languages. As you will know, I have been a long-standing member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, and one of our work streams in that assembly has been around minority languages, and the world-leading work that we have done here in Wales has been something that we have always liked to share and encourage other people in the various BIPA jurisdictions to adopt. So, I'm very pleased that the British-Irish Council has also been discussing this important issue. And I wonder whether you can tell us what consideration the British-Irish Council and the hosts of each summit give to the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly's agenda when considering what topics to include in the themes that are discussed at each meeting.

I noted with interest that you referred to the impact of the pandemic as well, of course, and the vaccination programme in your statement. That is also a subject of a current British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly inquiry—in fact, it's the European affairs committee of that British-Irish assembly, which I must declare an interest in as the chair of that committee. We are undertaking an inquiry into the roll-out of vaccinations across Europe and in the different BIPA jurisdictions at present, and I think it would be useful for the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly to share its findings with, obviously, all of the Governments in the different BIPA jurisdictions to see whether that has anything useful to add to the discussions that might take place. 

I do welcome this statement. I hope that we can continue to have oral statements in the future on these important topics, and perhaps there will be some way in which parties across the Senedd can work together to feed some of these work streams into the wider parliamentary business of the Senedd in the future in order that we can capitalise on the good work that's been done by BIPA, the British-Irish Council and others in terms of forging these important relationships across the whole of the British isles.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I thank Darren Millar for that contribution. I was very keen to make an oral statement today both because this particular summit was held here in Wales and because of the significance of the items that were on the agenda, and I've heard what the Member has said about oral statements in future, were the British-Irish Council to be engaged on matters that clearly would be of interest here.

I share everything he said about St Fagans, in my own constituency, of course. This wasn't the first British-Irish Council to be held in St Fagans. The first one was held in 2002, and because I am as old as the hills, Dirprwy Lywydd, I was there at that one as well. Bertie Ahern was the Taoiseach—[Interruption.]—I should be; I may well be, indeed. [Laughter.] In those days, because the British-Irish Council had not long been in existence because of the Good Friday agreement, it was attended by the Prime Minister as well, and Darren Millar is absolutely right, Llywydd—you can see the impression that the museum makes on people who are visiting it for the first time, and that was very evident on Thursday and Friday last week.

I agree with what Darren Millar said, Dirprwy Lywydd—there was a different mood music. I'd met the German ambassador here in Cardiff early in the day on Thursday, and he reported the same impression from the Commission, and the contributions by Michael Gove at the plenary sessions particularly, I thought, were designed to assist in that different mood music to help to move forward the prospects of securing an agreement. Quite certainly, everybody who spoke—apart from the UK Government, who, for understandable reasons, I think, didn't comment on this issue, but I think every other contribution—emphasised, as the Member has, that it is in everybody's interests to avoid the triggering of article 16.

I thank Darren Millar for what he said about the parliamentary assembly's work. Personally, and on behalf of the Welsh Government, I have argued that there ought to be a closer synergy between the work of the council and the work of the assembly and that we ought to think about, every now and then, getting together where there is a common piece of work going on. That's not been a view necessarily supported by all members of the council, but my own view is that a great deal of work goes on in both forums, it often is of common interest, and certainly the COVID impact was discussed in a very lively way on Thursday and Friday, because, of course, the Republic of Ireland has recently had to introduce fresh measures, the Executive in Northern Ireland was in the middle of making its decisions, and, by now, we may have heard of conclusions in Scotland as well. So, I'm very happy to go on working on that idea that we should make more of the synergies that could be created between the work of the ministerial group and the parliamentary group when we're both engaged on common concerns.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. In your written statement in response to the previous summit, I think you mentioned that the UK Prime Minister had not attended, and he didn't attend again. In fact, I don't think he's ever attended, and I don't think Theresa May attended and neither did David Cameron. You have to go back to Gordon Brown in 2007, I think. I know this because I was reading—. He attended in Belfast at that time and I know this because it's included in Ieuan Wyn Jones's new book, and he was representing the Welsh Government at that summit whilst Rhodri Morgan was recovering from illness. And Gordon Brown only turned up because Ian Paisley and Micheál Martin had threatened to cancel the whole thing if he hadn't done so. So, why do you think that UK Prime Ministers are so unwilling to attend the summit? Isn't it important? Whilst every other Government, as a rule, sends their First Ministers, and in this case the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste, doesn't it at least show some disrespect, if truth be told, to the other Governments that the UK Government isn't represented in the same way?

Micheál Martin, the Taoiseach, has put forward some ideas in relation to the council and strengthening the council. I'm wondering whether he shares some of the ideas you have mentioned now, your ideas on reforming the relationship with the parliamentary assembly. There is a different constitutional status to the various members of the council, isn't there? You have the Republic, of course, as an independent nation; you have Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland with their own devolved parliaments; and then you have the Crown dependencies too, which have a status somewhere in between—quite interestingly, outwith the European Union but within the customs union, outside the UK but espousing British identity. That's interesting in the context of the discussions that will come up through the constitutional commission. I wonder whether you had an opportunity during the conversations at the periphery, which can be the most interesting during these sessions, to discuss the constitutional commission and the lessons that can be learned from that range of constitutional models that might be relevant to us.

Finally, minority languages was one of the themes discussed. Was there any discussion at all on the pledge by the UK Government to introduce legislation on the Irish language in Northern Ireland following the political crisis in Stormont some years ago? There has been a pledge to legislate before the end of the year, but there are only a few weeks remaining of this year. So, was there anything to report in terms of progress to that end?

Thank you very much to Adam Price. I have been three or four times to these summits, and every time the absence of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is raised. I can see, a decade ago, when the system after the Good Friday agreement was running quite smoothly and we were all still within the European Union—I can see that there was a case for the Prime Minister not attending. But, in the Brexit context and in the context of everything that has happened post Brexit, the case for the Prime Minister to be there and to discuss with the partners who are so important within that agreement—well, that case is strengthened, I think, and several people expressed disappointment that Mr Johnson wasn't there. There was an opportunity to be there and speak to the other people present.

There was an interesting discussion with the Taoiseach and others about how we can strengthen the council, and there are a number of ideas. I referred to the new group of senior officials. We're going to ask them to do some work on how we can strengthen, on the one hand, the council and also reform how the council operates, so that we can derive everything from the opportunity when people travel from all over to come together. It was very interesting of course to hear from the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey. They have very interesting points of view. For example, the Chief Minister of Jersey had a great deal to say about fisheries and how that is part of the discussions with the European Union.

There wasn't a great deal of mention made in the plenary about legislation with regard to Northern Ireland and the Irish language, but that happened on the periphery of the summit. There were many people talking about the importance on the one hand and sensitivity on the other hand of this whole topic, and what the UK Government has promised to do and, at present, hasn't delivered on.

Like others, I welcome the oral statement this afternoon. I welcome the opportunity to debate and discuss the issues that have arisen, both from the meetings last week but also the wider issues of relationships in these islands. Like others who have spoken this afternoon, I also agree that the council is a good opportunity for us not just to root and deepen peace in the islands of the British isles, but also to learn from each other. And, certainly, as a past participant myself, I can certainly say that I learned a great deal from colleague Ministers in other administrations. But, you also met, First Minister, last week, at an extraordinarily difficult time in relations between these islands. I think that anyone who followed the debate and the discussion around the Northern Ireland protocol has seen nothing in the last year of its operation that was either unexpected, not predicted or in any way surprising. And the failure of UK policy in this field is a profoundly troubling matter for us all.

But, in terms of the place of Northern Ireland, of course, it does have a direct effect on the politics and policy of this place, because if we agree common frameworks that include the territory of Northern Ireland, and if Northern Ireland is following mainstream European regulations, then it is difficult to see how a common framework that includes Northern Ireland can vary itself from— 

The Member must conclude now.

—European norms. Therefore, First Minister, my question is: how do you see the operation of common frameworks, if there is a determination in UK policy—and we saw Lord Frost saying this again—that they want there to be a major turn away from EU regulations, because that will have a direct impact on the way that common frameworks operate here in Wales?

Well, I thank Alun Davies for that, Dirprwy Lywydd. He's absolutely right to point to the fact that the discussions about the future of the protocol have a direct impact on us here in Wales. I do very much regret the fact that the UK Government—Lord Frost being their agent in this matter—refused our request to be in the room when these discussions were taking place. Our only purpose in being there would have been to ensure that essential Welsh interests were known to those who were making the decisions. We weren't expecting to be decision makers. We thought we had a constructive part to play in making sure that those who did make decisions were well informed about the impact of the protocol on Welsh ports, for example, which I did discuss extensively with the Taoiseach and with Mr Gove.

Common frameworks work, Dirprwy Lywydd, has gone on quietly and in the background, more slowly than we would have wished, but making progress. And I'm still optimistic that we may be in a position to publish a series of those common frameworks for external scrutiny before too long. The context within which that work is carried out, however, has undoubtedly been made more challenging by the atmosphere that has, up until more recently, surrounded these discussions.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. You say in your statement today that dialogue, not unilateral actions or ultimatums, is important, and of course that will be true in terms of not invoking article 16 to hide behind the mess that has somehow been created by a bad deal. I'm really concerned about the ports of Milford Haven, Fishguard and Pembroke Dock—all valued employers in my region. I notice on camera that the Taoiseach said that already they've seen reduced activity in those ports, and we've all read reports about sea traffic evading and bypassing the Welsh ports. If we add in free ports as well, the sustainability and the viability of these ports start to come into question, and will be ultimately severely challenged. So, I want to know, First Minister, what conversations you had, raising those issues that I've just raised with Michael Gove at the British-Irish Council.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I thank Joyce Watson for that very important question, which is absolutely relevant to the part of Wales that she represents. I did have an opportunity to discuss these issues, both with Mr Gove but also with the Taoiseach as well. The danger for Wales, Dirprwy Lywydd, is that we are being squeezed in both directions. People in the Republic are making plans to transport goods directly to the continent of Europe, bypassing all the new complexities that they have to face if they bring goods into Welsh ports, because we're no longer members of the single market or the customs union. And at the other side, there is evidence of goods being imported into the United Kingdom going north on the island of Ireland, and then coming across from Northern Ireland into ports in England and Scotland; again, in order to avoid the complexities that leaving the European Union has created.

The Taoiseach was very clear with me that, in the view of his Government, the land bridge remains the quickest, the safest, the most efficient, economically beneficial route to transport goods between Ireland and the United Kingdom and the rest of the European Union. But for that land bridge to be effective again, we need a stable agreement, because people are going to have to have complexity, but they need complexity that they can get to grips with, understand, and then operate. The danger is—and this is where I think we have to be as vigilant as we can—that when people invest time and money and energy in establishing alternatives, even if they were meant to be short-term alternatives, if you're not careful those things become permanent. Even though they are not as efficient, even though they take longer, even though they're more expensive, if you've put a lot of your time and energy into establishing them, you may decide that it's just easier to stick with them, and if that were the case, then that would certainly be to the detriment of ports here in Wales.

First Minister, the pandemic and COP too have shown the need for closer working between Governments across the globe. The British-Irish Council summit, hosted by the Welsh Government at our iconic St Fagans National Museum of History, was a unique opportunity for Wales to show the value of how we are all stronger working co-operatively together.

First Minister, did you have an opportunity during your bilateral meeting with Michael Gove, who led the UK delegation, to raise also the grave concerns of the communities of Islwyn that we are being and will be potentially short-changed by the UK Tory Government? The confidence of the people of Islwyn is not helped when the Prime Minister addressing the Confederation of British Industry recently descended into total incoherence before asking the assembled audience if anyone had been to Peppa Pig World. First Minister, how can we and the Welsh Government ensure better clarity and transparency with the UK Government's funding of Welsh communities following the UK leaving the European Union, and how can the Welsh Government continue to drive systemic co-operation from a Tory Government seemingly intent on dilution of devolution?

I thank Rhianon Passmore for that, Dirprwy Lywydd. The bilateral meetings that are possible around an event like the BIC are very valuable. I did have such a meeting with Mr Gove. My aim in those meetings is that where I think we can work on things together, I want to emphasise those things, and I want to make progress on positive ground. We did that on a number of issues, the UK inquiry into the COVID experience being one of them. But I cannot leave a meeting of that sort without being as clear as I could be, and I don't think I could have been more direct with the Secretary of State in making it clear to him that the way that Wales has lost out in funding, in decision making, in those things that were promised to Wales as a result of leaving the European Union, and the operation of the internal market Act to achieve all of that, is the single most difficult challenge facing the United Kingdom today, because it poisons relationships. Until the UK Government is prepared to take a different approach to those matters, that will always be there in the background, despite the efforts that Michael Gove himself—I'm happy to acknowledge that—and we, where we can, try to make on areas where more common ground is possible. 

And finally, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. I appreciate the comments about the discussions that were had around the port of Holyhead, and you're quite right that there's squeezing from both sides, with the increased traffic directly to the continent, but also there's the Northern Ireland link. Can you give me an assurance that you will press the UK Government to not in any way allow Liverpool ports, ports on the Mersey, to be given prominence over Holyhead? I remember as far back as the development of the TEN-T transport network, where Holyhead was seen as lower priority than the ports on the Mersey at that time. Now we're coming to a point where that really means something, and we need those assurances for the port of Holyhead.

I'm absolutely happy to give that assurance, Dirprwy Lywydd. I did directly raise with the UK Government not simply ports in Pembrokeshire, but particularly the impact on Holyhead given its significance as a port to the whole of the United Kingdom in the BIC context, and Welsh Ministers lose no opportunity to make sure that we return to this issue with UK Ministers whenever we have that chance, and to press them to go beyond the sort of assurances we have had up until now, which is that all this is just teething trouble, that it will all settle down, and that provided we all just keep crossing our fingers, it'll all be all right. Well, I'm afraid, as every week goes by, that view of the world becomes a little harder to sustain, and we really need to move UK Ministers beyond that, to think about what actions they can take, and we are prepared to take as well, to make sure that the real advantages that there are of trading through those Welsh ports are secured for the future. 

Thank you, First Minister.