4. Will the Counsel General make a statement on support provided to families by the justice system in Wales? OQ57227

I thank the Member for this important question. Families can face a range of legal problems that may require support from different services provided by private professionals, state and third sector organisations. Too often, though, there are gaps in that support, not least because of the dramatic reduction in the availability of legal aid in the family courts.

Thank you. Counsel General, in September, you issued a written statement confirming that family justice would be a key area of focus for your tenure, and rightly sharing many concerns about the numbers of children in Wales sadly taken into care. Earlier this year, it was confirmed that there are now 7,170 children looked after away from home in Wales, which is 1.14 per cent of children. That sits above the current UK average, being 0.72 per cent of children. I am aware that the north Wales local family justice board is one of two pathfinder areas taking part in a pilot programme to test and evaluate a revised child arrangements programme. The aim of this work is to promote non-adversarial and problem-solving approaches to cases, and to help reduce backlogs. Can you confirm what discussions you have had to engage with this work and whether such pilot schemes will be replicated anywhere else in Wales to help address the crisis of looked-after children wherever they may be here?

Thank you, and thank you for those comments. The answer to that is 'yes'. There are a number of pilots that are in operation and problem-solving courts are a particular issue as well. As someone personally who's been very involved in the childcare area, I very much welcome those changes that have been taking place. I have visited myself some of the courts to look at these. I've also had discussions with a number of members of the judiciary about how that operates, and about the support that is ongoing. I liaise also very, very closely with my colleague the Minister for Social Justice, who also is carrying out considerable areas of work in this particular area. I think some of these pilots are really important. They are also one of the areas where we are working with UK Government and with the Ministry of Justice in terms of how to develop them and how to do the best we can to actually ensure that more and more children are actually kept with their mothers, and fewer are taken into care. You raise the anomalies that exist, and of course it's an issue that has been raised by Lord Thomas, who raised it recently, I think, in the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and also about the need to look, I think, overall within Wales at the data, the statistics that exist, to see why there are variations and what can be done to actually resolve those and deal with what is a very, very significant social issue. I think the remainder of the question really needs to be addressed to the appropriate portfolio Member. 

I understand that you, Counsel General, will be taking part in a conference on justice and policing next week, which will be held jointly with Liz Savile Roberts. It will focus on the Commission on Justice in Wales report, which recommended the devolution of justice two years ago. Of course, the devolution of justice is now Welsh Government policy, and has formed part of the co-operation agreement between Plaid Cymru and the Government that was announced this week. But looking ahead to the conference, in that context I would like to ask about two issues related to support for families. First, I would like to ask for an update on the family drug and alcohol courts pilot. What progress has been made to date, please, and what will the next steps be? And finally, I'd like to ask for your views, Counsel General, on comments made by Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee on Monday. He recommended establishing an all-Wales criminal justice board as well as an all-Wales family justice board. What would your comments be on that proposal, please? Thank you. 

Firstly, I look forward very much to the online conference that you refer to, which is a cross-party event, and one that also involves Lord Thomas, but also involves the trade unions, those people who actually work within the justice sector. I think there'll be a lot to learn from that, but I've no doubt in my own mind, and again, reiterating the comments of Lord Thomas, that the devolution of justice is not a question of if, it's a question of when. 

In terms of the comments, I listened very intently to the evidence from Lord Thomas to the Legislation, Constitution and Justice Committee, and to those particular recommendations or suggestions that he actually made. I suppose the best I can say is that I'm very interested in looking at how we can explore them and develop them further.