The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of Darren Millar.

The next item is item 8, the Plaid Cymru debate on household debt. I call on Sioned Williams to move the motion. 

Motion NDM7856 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the Bevan Foundation’s report on the impact of COVID-19 on household debt.

2. Notes the rising prices of utilities bills.

3. Notes the Welsh Government written statement on support for the winter fuel support scheme and household living costs.

4. Calls on the UK Government to reform the rural fuel duty relief scheme and increase in fuel duty in areas which have received above UK average public investment in public transport infrastructure.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) work with local authorities to clear some of the significant council tax arrears that have been built up over the course of the pandemic;

b) work with the UK Government to establish a consistent baseline of support by energy suppliers for indebted customers;

c) explore the possibility of legislation that would place a duty on all public bodies, including schools and colleges, to prevent debt.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I welcome the opportunity to open this important debate and move the motion before you. The first inquiry I had the privilege of being a part of as a member of the Equality and Social Justice Committee was on debt and the pandemic. As a committee, we decided that the picture of economic hardship that was clearly beginning to form a year and more into the COVID crisis needed investigating, and actions were recommended to protect the most vulnerable households in Wales from extreme financial pressures. The findings, though unfortunately not surprising, were shocking.

The inquiry found that the rising cost of living was a particular concern for people who took part in our focus groups on debt. Worryingly, many participants agreed that the true impact of the pandemic has yet to be realised, referring to a perfect storm or a tsunami in describing the likely scenario over the coming months and years. In its list of recommendations, the committee calls on the Welsh Government to continue to support people struggling with basic household costs, warning that the full effect of the pandemic is yet to hit home and also warning that more people are falling into debt in order to meet daily essentials, household bills and council tax, and that rising food and fuel prices are set to drive people deeper into poverty this winter. The evidence we heard was stark. The terms used by one witness have haunted me since. They said:

'What really worries me is a potential 30% increase in gas and electricity prices in 2022. That is going to push people into Victorian poverty.'  

Victorian poverty. Plaid Cymru welcomes the recommendation of the committee that the Welsh Government should accelerate the work to bring all social homes up to energy rating A as a result of rising energy costs, and to revise its fuel poverty action plan, as well as the calls for better promotion and support of debt advice services and affordable credit sources among those at heightened risk of debt. We also support the recommendation to explore debt bonfires, as council tax arrears have been shown to be the largest element of household debt and that the lack of a statutory footing for the council tax protocol for Wales sometimes leads to practices that can deepen the level of debt significantly. Our motion today calls for the Government to work with local authorities to clear some of the significant council tax arrears that have been built up over the course of the pandemic, and to look at introducing a duty onto public bodies to prevent debt.

A recent report by the Bevan Foundation on household debt in Wales found that tens of thousands of people across the country were living with problem debt long before the pandemic struck, but that the economic impact of COVID-19 had deepened that crisis. Across Wales, 130,000 households—that is, one in 10 of all households in Wales—were in arrears regarding a bill between January and May 2021. Over the same period, 230,000 households—17 per cent of all households in Wales—had borrowed money. This has led to many households in Wales being pushed into poverty, having to go without the basics of daily life, and suffering from the stress and anxiety caused by poverty and debt. There is no doubt that this winter will be very difficult for so many households across Wales.

The Tory Government in Westminster has betrayed the people of Wales. The financial pressures facing families have been exacerbated in many cases by the cruel decision to cut the £20 uplift in universal credit. Appeals from several quarters, including from the Welsh Government, to overturn that catastrophic cut have fallen on deaf ears. We believe that another measure that the Welsh Government could press the UK government to implement would be an extension of the rural fuel duty relief scheme for Wales. The scheme provides a discount of 5p per litre for fuel retailers in specific rural areas, but none of these are currently in Wales. This would ensure that people in rural areas are not forced to shoulder an unfair proportion of higher fuel costs. In the long term, of course, we need to invest more in public transport, especially in rural areas.

Those most at risk of debt across Wales are all those already facing socioeconomic disadvantage, such as renters, disabled people, children, single parents, women, older people, care leavers, and households from black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds. We should all know, given that we marked International Day of Disabled People with a debate in this Chamber yesterday, that disabled people face extra costs in their daily lives of over £500 a month. It is no surprise, therefore, that disabled people have been twice as likely to be in arrears over the pandemic. Over 20 per cent of disabled people in Wales were in arrears in the first half of this year, and nearly a quarter of disabled people had to borrow money to make ends meet over the same period.

Barnardo's Cymru has also highlighted the financial challenges faced when care leavers transition to independent living, because setting up their own home can cause great anxiety for care leavers, with many having to take up payday loans to pay off debts, leading to a vicious cycle of financial difficulties.

While the limited measures put in place by Welsh Government to mitigate this horrendous and unacceptable level of household debt are, of course, welcome, we feel that more could be done to support families not just over the coming months but also in the longer term. The recent announcement on the winter fuel support scheme means that households in receipt of working-age means-tested welfare benefits will be able to claim a one-off £100 cash payment to provide support towards paying winter fuel bills, which we know are going to be crippling. But it's only for those in receipt of working-age, means-tested benefits. And most recent estimates suggest that 69 per cent of fuel-poor households in Wales are not in receipt of those benefits. So, clearly, the payment won't reach everyone in need. And we know that as regards fuel poverty, things will get even tougher after the next rise to the energy price cap due to come into force from next April. 

The emergency support also announced, which will be available under the discretionary assistance fund for those off grid in mainly rural areas who rely on LPG and oil for fuel, is, of course, also welcome. But, again, this emergency support is only available in the coldest months, and all-year-round support would, according to groups such as National Energy Action, be more effective and equitable as people could access help whenever they need it and could better budget for and plan ahead for winter rather than have to wait for the winter months when it’s already cold. They could also pay for fuel at a time when there's less pressure on delivery services and potentially better value for money per litre, which also aligns, of course, with Public Health Wales's recommended year-round, continuous preventative approaches.

Clearly, the Welsh Government must take a cross-Government and cross-departmental approach to tackling the looming and growing crisis of household debt to ensure the needs of the most vulnerable in our society are met. The outlook is bleak for too many Welsh families. We must do all that we can to ensure that those who are in debt are supported and are not pushed further into deeper financial crisis and forced to make impossible decisions that threaten the health and well-being of their families. I urge Members to support our motion today to help achieve that. Diolch.

I have selected the three amendments to the motion. I call on Mark Isherwood to move amendments 1, 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Darren Millar.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

Delete point 4.

Amendment 2—Darren Millar

Delete 5(c) and replace with:

work with public bodies, including schools and colleges, to explore measures to prevent problem debt.

Amendment 3—Darren Millar

Add as new sub-points at end of point 5:

create and publish a cold weather plan;

expand the financial support available to assist those struggling to meet growing energy bills;

invest in home energy efficiency, prioritising the poorest households in the least efficient homes;

produce regular estimates of the number of fuel-poor households in Wales.

Amendments 1, 2 and 3 moved.

Diolch. I move amendments 1, 2 and 3. As the Bevan Foundation's report 'Debt in the pandemic' states,

'Thousands of people across Wales were living in problem debt long before the pandemic.'

Although

'Home working and reduced opportunities to spend due to COVID-19 restrictions have enabled some households to pay down debt....The economic impact of Covid-19 has seen the financial position of many Welsh families deteriorate, pushing some into problem debt for the first time and deepening the amount of debt owed by some of those already struggling.'

As this makes clear, the issue is problem debt, not simply debt, which includes, of course, risk-based mortgages and car loans. Hence our proposed replacement of point 5(c) of the motion in calling instead for the Welsh Government to work with public bodies, including schools and colleges, to explore measures to prevent problem debt. I have in mind the extensive work done on this issue during previous Senedd terms. I was a Member of the Communities and Culture Committee that produced the 'Financial Inclusion and the Impact of Financial Education' report 11 years ago. Quoting Les Cooper, then co-ordinator of the north Wales financial capability forum but sadly no longer with us, this stated that

'the resources and methods that are currently used to increase financial capability "do not address the basic skills challenges we have in Wales."'

Les had championed the award-winning scheme in some Flintshire schools that delivered financial literacy through participative theatrical performance. They even brought their production to the Senedd in the hope that this best-practice model, 11 years or more ago, would be shared and adopted across Wales.

Questioning the First Minister here in January 2018, I quoted Money Advice Service research, which found that many young people in Wales are ill-prepared for dealing with adult financial responsibilities, with just 35 per cent learning about money management in school. I asked him to revisit the recommendations of the 2010 Communities and Culture Committee report. 

Our other amendments today call for Welsh Government action to tackle fuel poverty, including the production of regular estimates of the number of fuel-poor households in Wales, where previous estimates have been sporadic, in 2004, 2008 and 2018. 

In 2018, prior to the pandemic, it was estimated that 12 per cent or 155,000 households in Wales were in fuel poverty. Prior to COVID, Wales saw a 45 per cent increase in 2019-20 excess winter deaths. Wales has some of the oldest and least thermally efficient housing stock compared to the UK and Europe.

On 1 October, the energy price cap set by the energy regulator, the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets, increased after gas prices hit a record high as the world emerged from lockdown. Although the price cap ensures that suppliers only pass on legitimate costs to customers, National Energy Action Cymru has estimated that this rise could plunge 22,500 more households in Wales into fuel poverty this winter, and that we could see the numbers in fuel poverty rise by 50 per cent or more compared to 2018 estimates. It called for deeper protection for low-income households this winter.

NEA added that the Welsh Government has a vital role to play to support fuel-poor households across tenure to retrofit and upgrade the energy efficiency of their homes, and called on the Welsh Government to expand the financial support available to assist those struggling to meet growing energy bills, as well as, longer term, investing in home energy efficiency, prioritising the poorest households in the least efficient homes.

Speaking here in 2018, I noted that the annual cost to the Welsh NHS of treating people made ill by living in a cold, damp home was approximately £67 million annually then. Cold homes have also been linked to poor mental health, social isolation and reduced educational attainment.

It is nearly three years since the Welsh Government stated that it would be developing a cold weather plan in conjunction with Public Health Wales. When I asked the social justice Minister here last month what specific year-round cold weather resilience planning the Welsh Government is planning now, the Minister replied,

'We will have a cold weather plan in place'.

But, we needed this published and operating before another cold winter was upon us.

The UK Government announced another freeze on fuel duty in its autumn budget, recognising that fuel is a major cost for households and businesses. As drafted, Plaid Cymru's proposal to reform the rural fuel duty relief scheme could penalise rural residents and businesses, which nonetheless retain poor public transport connectivity.  

Mark, you need to conclude now. 

Finally, the Welsh Government should take heed of NEA Cymru's 2021 fuel poverty monitor, launched yesterday, which focuses on the decarbonisation of domestic heating for fuel-poor households. Diolch.

Thank you to Plaid Cymru.

I really welcome this debate here this evening. Debt is a terrible thing. It is something you have on your mind all of the time; it weighs you down; it makes you feel you can't find a way out; it makes you shout at your children; it makes you feel unwell. I'm really interested in what would help and we've heard some possible solutions through the debt report that was issued by the Equality and Social Justice Committee. 

Some may see some of those ideas as socialist utopian ideas—the words of the Conservatives—but I implore you all to look into them, because none of us wants to see people in debt and none of us wants to see people weighed down and having mental health issues because of that.

The debt bonfire idea that Sioned mentioned is one that we have pushed forward, and I'm really pleased to see it included in the report. Let me explain a little bit about it. When debt reaches a debt auction, the organisation that has put the person into debt has already accepted that it is unlikely to recoup to total value of the debt owed. Whilst the company then forgets about the debt, individuals and families battle on with the weight of debt around their neck. We want to see the Welsh Government think seriously about this idea, and to see moneys put forward to set aside the debt, a fraction of what is owed. But, my goodness, the effect that that would have on those individuals and those families that are in debt—

Will you take an intervention?

Yes, of course I will. 

What I would also state is sometimes this debt is gaining more and more interest, and it's getting bigger and bigger. When people couldn't afford to pay it in the beginning, making it bigger and bigger only makes matters worse and worse. Thank you.

I thank my colleague for that intervention, and you’re absolutely right—the exponential growth of that debt adds to the real weight on that particular family.

The second idea, again, possibly seen as a socialist, utopian idea, is one of universal basic income, and I do welcome the Labour Government’s commitment to this. But I would also like to see it going further and extend it to beyond the care leavers plus arrangement that’s being proposed. Universal basic income is this generation’s national health service. And like the NHS in 1946, when Winston Churchill’s Tories voted against it 21 times, we still see continued resistance to universal basic income being enshrined in order to give everybody the opportunity of a basic income level, which makes sure that they can feed their children, which makes sure that they can heat their homes, which makes sure that they have got a life which is about dignity. Churchill said in 1946 that the NHS was a first step to Britain becoming a national-socialist economy. The universal basic income that’s been proposed is actually one that I would implore again everybody to listen to, everybody to learn about. Before you condemn it, look at the evidence and see how it really addresses poverty.

To conclude, I would like to see many ideas adopted in order to support people that are in debt. We cannot continue to go on like this. And the pandemic, as we have seen and heard, has put even more people into that position. I support this motion, I want to see the Welsh Government take this forward, and I also would just like to finish with a word about the Conservative Government in London, which, in my view, has put even more people into debt through the withdrawal of the £20 uplift to the universal credit. Please support this motion. 

Thank you very much to Plaid Cymru as well.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Thank you to Jane Dodds for those words.

In her opening remarks, my colleague Sioned Williams illustrated how more and more people in Wales are being pushed into poverty and debt. That word 'pushed' is important, as far too often we hear some politicians discuss poverty as though it is a choice, or something that happens to people because of their own actions. And whilst debt is a personal problem that causes huge distress to the individual or family facing economic hardship, I think it is important that we recognise today that it is a societal problem that requires action from all of us. That quote read out by Sioned about the Victorian levels of poverty is not an over-exaggeration or over-dramatization of the reality for too many people living in our communities. And increasingly, we see a greater divide, with more and more people struggling to secure their fundamental basic human right to a safe and warm home and food.

People aren’t increasingly being pushed into debt because they are buying luxuries. The people who have come to me for support are people who have done everything possible to avoid going into debt, but have been victims of circumstance that any one of us could similarly face ourselves, and the pandemic has only made this worse.

Whilst we, of course, welcome the fact that the Welsh Government extended the flexibilities to the discretionary assistance fund until the end of March 2022 following representations, this isn’t enough to solve the debt crisis in Wales. That’s why, as part of our motion, we have proposed exploring the possibility of legislation that would place a duty on all public bodies, including schools and colleges, to prevent debt.

Adopting a progressive policy approach to debt management would be able to prohibit public bodies from adopting practices that increase debt. For example, this approach would be well applied to local authorities and the collection of council tax debt. After all, across the UK currently, there is a rapid increase in the accumulation of council tax debts, and it is the No.1 debt issue that the citizens advice bureau are contacted about. In the first half of this year, nearly 1 in 20 Welsh households were in arrears on their council tax, and in March 2019, households in Wales owed £94 million in council tax debts, a figure that has likely only risen over the course of the pandemic.

Council tax is also viewed as a priority debt, as councils may take individuals to court if they fail to pay, with local authorities often using bailiffs to enforce court orders that can cause significant stress and anxiety for those in arrears. On top of this, missing even a single council tax payment can make an individual liable to pay their full annual bill. This, alongside possible legal and bailiff fees, often results in people who were initially unable to pay their council tax bill being in greater debt, as Mike Hedges mentioned in his previous intervention as part of this debate. Our public bodies should not be driving people into more debt. Instead, we should be helping to prevent debt from occurring in the first place, or from becoming unmanageable. What we are therefore asking in this motion is for the Welsh Government to work alongside local authorities to clear some of the significant council tax arrears that have been built up in the pandemic and examine how to introduce legislation that would place a duty on Welsh public bodies to reduce debt.

Earlier this week I met with Samaritans Cymru, and amongst the issues we discussed was how financial concerns can drive some people to suicide, as is reflected in the number of people that call the Samaritans to talk specifically about debt. And if anyone out there is struggling with debt today, let us send a clear message that they are not alone and there is support available, and that we in Wales don't accept that poverty is inevitable or acceptable. Let's unite to make sure that there is more done to tackle the household debt crisis and support this motion today that would make a difference to people's lives in the communities that we represent.

Can I just start off by saying I agree with everything Heledd Fychan has just said? And, unfortunately, I hope I don't repeat any of it during what I say here.

I think it really is important that we think about people who are in debt. They're in debt because they're poor. Can I reply to Mark Isherwood? Debt is not caused by irresponsible expenditure, it's not caused by a lack of financial literacy; it is caused by a lack of money. It's caused by bills coming in and the inability to pay them. And, the biggest problem that can face anybody is an unexpected death in the family where all members of the family have to get together and they have to collect money, borrow money in whatever way they can, in order to have a basic funeral. [Interruption.]

Would you accept that I was quoting from committee reports in the Senedd, which were cross party, based on detailed research, and identified some good practice, which did work with the families at the time?

I'll accept that; what I'm saying is that, in my opinion—and it's only my opinion, but that's what I've been paid to come here to give—it is not caused by irresponsible expenditure. Most poor people I know who are in debt, it's caused by an unexpected bill. It just happens. And funerals are the worst. I'll just go through a case I know. So, if I use male and female in this case, it's because of the people I'm talking about rather than anything to do with gender. And somebody's sister-in-law died unexpectedly. She lived in a council house in Swansea, so she had very little money. She had children who had to be looked after by the rest of the family, so that immediately put pressure on the rest of the family. That was then followed by having to pay for the funeral, and a basic funeral is incredibly expensive, and it really does affect. Four or five members of the family had to get together, but you're talking about £500, £600 each. When that is roughly what you have to spend on the necessities of life in a month, it does cause you immense problems.

Can I just say that too many people in Wales, including many of my constituents, live in poverty and debt? In the 1990s, the way out of poverty and debt was, 'Get employment'—simple. Many people living in poverty now, who are building up debt, have one or two family members in work and still have debt. What poverty means is people going hungry, houses not adequately heated and children going without things that many take for granted. We are approaching Christmas, and as many prepare for the festivities, many people in here are planning for their children and grandchildren, there are others where there'll be few, if any, presents for the children, and no special food for Christmas. In Swansea, my MP Carolyn Harris is raising money for Everyone Deserves a Christmas, and I'll be collecting food in my local office for the local food banks and will be donating to the Mr X appeal, which provides children who otherwise would not have a present at Christmas with a Christmas present. All this has been made worse by the cruel cut in universal credit, which has made matters so much worse for many poor people. To some people in here, £20 is a minimal amount of money; to others, it will pay for their week's shopping, taking the 'just managing' into 'not managing'. I'm not going to quote Mr Micawber as I haven't got time, but it's going from 'nineteen and six' to 'twenty and six', which makes a big difference.

But why are people in debt and in poverty, especially those who are working? It's because they're working under conditions that most of us never thought we'd see in our lifetime. You have zero-hour contracts, and you have the worst ones that are minimum guaranteed weekly contracts. So, in a week, you'll be guaranteed to work seven hours. Most weeks, you may work 30 or 40 hours; you are just about managing. But if you're ill, or if the company has a problem, you go back to your seven hours, and all of a sudden, instead of having £300, £400 for that week, you get £70. The bills don't go down, so what can you do? You end up borrowing. And I think that that is one of the problems we have with debt: people are borrowing because their income has just collapsed in one week. Don't be ill—that's the one thing; if you're on low pay, don't be ill. You can't afford to be ill, and that may well have been some of the problems with COVID. Because you cannot afford to be ill and you have to work those hours in order to get paid. I think it really is important that we start realising why people are in debt. It's not because they're spending money on fripperies and it's not because they're wasting money. In fact, if you ask a poor person how much money they've got, they'll be able to tell you to the nearest penny. If I asked most people in here, they couldn't probably tell me to the nearest £100. I think that really is the problem we have—lots of very poor people, and, of course, we've had fire-and-rehire brought in, just to make matters worse. We need to get out of it, but only higher wages, guaranteed hours and a proper job are going to get people out of this poverty and debt circle that far too many of my constituents and far too many people I know are in.

Whilst the pandemic has been difficult for many sections of society, older people have suffered more than most. The increased threat of coronavirus to their health has increased isolation and loneliness, taking a heavy toll on the mental and physical health of older people. The economic fallout has also had a big impact on older people. Since the start of the pandemic, 24 per cent of workers aged 60 to 64 have been furloughed, lost hours and/or their pay, and may have lost their jobs completely. We know that when older workers lose their job, they often find it difficult to find work compared to younger people. It is a sad reality that those who lose their jobs between the ages of 50 and 60 years old during the pandemic may never find another job before reaching state retirement age, thus increasing poverty in retirement. It is already estimated that one in five older people in Wales live in relative income poverty—a figure that has been rising over recent years and could increase further in the coming years.

To compound matters, credit is not so easily available for older people. This is something I'm familiar with due to my experience in retail banking. The rules are drawn up so that older people are often denied access to loans they may need to meet unexpected expenses. As a result, many older people are forced to go without or turn to unscrupulous lenders with high interest rates.

A big setback to household incomes that will disproportionately older people is the extortionate rise in utility bills. Between January and October, gas prices in the UK rose 250 per cent, according to the industry group Oil and Gas UK. The failure of the Tory Westminster Government to build spare capacity and contingency plans for a sharp rise in wholesale gas prices has caused chaos in the energy market. It has left people exposed to the worst effects of the market. Older people generally have a greater need for warmth during winter, compared with younger people, meaning that energy prices will have a bigger impact on their household budgets. An estimated 67,000 older households are thought to be living in fuel poverty in Wales. We know that living in cold, damp homes is detrimental to anyone's health. This is particularly concerning for older people as winter approaches and a new COVID variant has been discovered. We must ensure that no-one in Wales goes without heating, because it will increase their risk of respiratory, heart and circulatory diseases.

I would like the Welsh Government to work more closely with the UK Government and energy suppliers to ensure a baseline of support for indebted customers. The Welsh Government should also invest in a high-profile campaign to increase the take-up of pension credit. In 2018-19, unclaimed pension credit totalled as much as £214 million. Aside from the extra cash, claiming these credits unlocks a range of other entitlements, such as council tax discounts, free dental care and help with housing costs. If the Government could do this, it could make a big difference in the lives of older people. Diolch yn fawr.

The Minister for Social Justice to contribute to the debate—Jane Hutt.

Diolch, Llywydd, and I'd like to start by thanking Plaid Cymru for bringing this debate today. It not only highlights the rising levels of household debt in Wales outlined by speakers today, but also the steps we're taking as a Welsh Government to mitigate some of the grave hardships being faced. And I also welcome the Equality and Social Justice Committee inquiry into debt and the pandemic. I look forward to responding to the recommendations, which I'll consider carefully.

Evidence to the committee has shown the consequences for people left struggling with problem debt, and that evidence shows those painful and long-lasting impacts, as Sioned Williams and Jane Dodds, members of the committee, have identified and heard in that evidence. Households are under unprecedented financial pressures as a result of the pandemic, but also from our exit from the EU, the rising cost of living, fuel and food, and cuts to welfare support. As we've heard today, this perfect storm—this perfect storm of rising costs and adverse impacts—is plunging many more vulnerable households into poverty, as Mike Hedges has described.

I agree with the Bevan Foundation's assessment that, sadly, debt levels across Wales will increase in the coming months. We know this will include debt owed to public sector creditors, including local authorities, the Department for Work and Pensions and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. We did welcome the legal protections from debt enforcement action and creditor forbearance that eased the financial burden for many households across Wales during the pandemic. However, as evidenced by the Bevan Foundation in their report, we can't avoid the reality that now legal protections, creditor leniency and the £20 per week universal credit uplift have ended, people in Wales have been left with problem debt.

Most of the powers to address this cost-of-living crisis do lie in the UK Government's hands, but we will do everything we can as a Welsh Government to help families through this winter. To help tackle these unprecedented challenges, we are making £51 million available to develop our own bespoke household support fund to help families facing the cost-of-living crisis to pay their bills this winter. The household support fund will help to mitigate the UK Government decision to cut the £20 universal credit lifeline for tens of thousands of families, despite widespread representations to halt that cut, made again here today.

I want to talk about the household support fund because the first phase will provide families with extra help to pay their energy bills over the winter, and give extra funding to food banks and community food schemes. More than £38 million will be made available through a winter fuel support scheme, as we've heard today, for households in receipt of working-age, means-tested benefits. It is important to share the information: the scheme will open for applications on 13 December and eligible households will be able to claim a one-off £100 cash payment.

And it is important to recognise that we can't address all the austerity measures that have been imposed by the UK Government. Our ambition through the winter fuel support scheme is to support those households who suffered an income shock when the UK Government ended their £20 universal credit or working tax credit uplift payment. So, we want to support households who receive one of the earnings replacement, means-tested benefits that the UK Government refused to increase. But we're under no illusion, this can't compensate the households who lost over £1,000 a year when the cut—the universal credit cut—was made unnecessarily and cruelly. But also, we have to look at the opportunities that we have in terms of the payment. It will help eligible energy customers, regardless of whether they pay for their fuel on a pre-payment or a credit meter. A rigorous take-up campaign is being promoted, which advice givers and local authorities are taking forward.

But, as part of the fuel poverty plan for 2021-35, we are working with stakeholders to prepare and publish a cold weather resilience plan. And thank you for raising the need for us to ensure that that plan is taken forward. I can tell you I'm very pleased to respond to Mark Isherwood this afternoon to say that the plan identifies key actions we can implement that have an immediate impact for those in need. It does include promoting and supplying emergency assistance payments and continuing with the installation of domestic energy efficiency measures. And we are due to publish the plan on Fuel Poverty Awareness Day, which I know you'll be aware is this week, on 3 December. So, I'm sure that you will welcome that news today. 

In addition, over the past decade, more than £394 million has been invested to improve home energy efficiency through the Warm Homes programme, benefiting more than 67,100 lower income households. And these improvements are reducing the energy bills of lower income households by an average of more than £300 annually. As well as supporting families struggling to pay their fuel bills, the household support fund will provide more than £1.1 million to support and bolster food banks, community food partnerships and community hubs. And it will help address food poverty and food insecurity and provide a wider range of services to help people and families maximise their income.

Alongside action to tackle food poverty and food insecurity, we are tackling the root causes of food poverty through our commitment to the social wage and targeted activity to maximise income and build financial resilience. We invested an extra £14.9 million into the discretionary assistance fund to support the increasing demand on the fund during 2021, providing those hardship payments to those experiencing financial crisis. The discretionary assistance fund works with Citizens Advice to refer people who have accessed the fund on to wider advice and support to address their underlying financial needs, including getting specialist debt advice. 

And it is important we help people in Wales to claim all the financial support that they are entitled to. So, our second national 'Claim what's yours' welfare benefit take-up campaign aims to raise people's awareness of their entitlement, encourage them to seek advice—and, Peredur, I do agree about pension credit; that's got to be part of the 'Claim what's yours' campaign—and help people navigate through the welfare benefits system to get their entitlements, their rights. Our long-standing commitment to supporting advice services ensures that people across Wales can access free and impartial debt and social welfare advice. And 18,000 people received debt advice and were helped to manage debts of over £8 million as a result of our single advice fund services. People who are receiving advice on their welfare benefit entitlements were supported to get an additional income of over £43 million as well. 

So, in conclusion, I have to say that we are addressing the issues that have been raised in this important debate today, including those who are struggling to pay their council tax bills. Obviously, Heledd Fychan, it's important that we are working with our colleagues in local government. Our council tax reduction scheme is crucially important, and also our income maximisation scheme for lifting children out of poverty. 

So, my final point is that I look forward to responding to the Equality and Social Justice Committee's report and their recommendations. This is a cross-Government responsibility—working with my colleagues in Welsh Government, working as a result of our co-operation agreement as we seek to work together to tackle poverty, engaging with the UK Government, making representations and working with our partners in tackling household debt in Wales. Diolch.

I call on Delyth Jewell to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Llywydd, and thank you to those who've contributed to this timely debate. It's surely morally wrong for anyone to be in debt simply as a result of trying to survive, because that's what we're talking about here: families who struggle to afford basic costs, rent, or council tax to keep a roof over their heads, and bills for gas and electricity to keep them warm and fed. Sioned Williams has talked about the Victorian poverty facing many families. We no longer have the spectre of Scrooge in his counting house, but the flash modern company with enticing websites and usurious interest rates. Mark Isherwood spoke about improving financial capability; I know that financial literacy and capability is something Citizens Advice has worked on for many years. I don't think it will answer all of the issues we've raised, but I do agree that this does deserve more support. Jane Dodds spoke about the psychological toll of debt, the weight of debt around families' necks—yes, indeed.

Heledd Fychan mentioned the fact that poverty was a problem for all of society and the problem of council tax arrears and the pressures that people face when bailiffs go to people's homes. 

Mike Hedges took up many of these themes, and how even basic funerals can tip people into debt—these unexpected crises that mark us. Debt doesn't come from fripperies, he said. I couldn't agree more.

Peredur Owen Griffiths mentioned the impact the pandemic and poverty have on older people, the impact of the increase in energy bills.

He also spoke about how credit is denied, often, to older people and how, actually, people, because of their circumstances, can be affected even more. I thank the Minister for her contribution and her update on some of the ways in which the Government is acting on this. I welcome the news about the 'Claim what's yours' campaign. I would prefer automatic benefit payment, but I do welcome the news about people being advertised more about what they are entitled to claim. One of the overwhelming points that's come up time and again, I think, in this debate is how circumstances can push anyone into debt. COVID and rising bills have made people's debts more acute, but households all over Wales were already in a daily battle to afford to keep the heating on, cutting back on this, going without that; people struggling to spend enough, not on extravagances, but their basic existence.

In Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises, two characters are talking about bankruptcy and one of them asks the other, 'How did you go bankrupt?' To which the other replies that it happened in two ways: gradually, then suddenly. And that, surely, Llywydd, encapsulates the horror of any debt: a process that has been on the brink of happening for so long, and then something pushes it over the edge—the unexpected emergency, new shoes, a pay cheque not arriving, a funeral. And in this debate about debt, we've talked about the 'suddenlys', haven't we? The energy bill crisis and the hot panic it caused; the pandemic that's coated almost every aspect of life in difficulty; the cruel cut to universal credit; all of these 'suddenlys' that pushed more people into poverty. But they are also the 'graduallys': the persistent, nefarious structures that trap people on the edge of ruin every day; the energy market we have that passes on risk-free profits to shareholders and pushes prices up for the people who need their product to live; the borrowing system that allows banks to lend to each other at almost negative interest rates, but forces the desperate mother to pay through the nose; systems that all but ensure that there have to be losers. Libertarian economists claim the market will always provide, but they don't specify what it will provide. For families at the bottom, the unfettered free market can provide nothing but misery, and living with this insecurity, this constant threat of poverty, that is exhausting. It's steadily traumatising. The Royal College of Psychiatrists has found that one in every two adults in debt has a mental health problem, be it provoked by guilt, isolation, anxiety, hopelessness. Research from 2018 found people experiencing problem debt were three times as likely to have considered taking their own life.

Llywydd, the structures of our society allow this to persist. They price in that pain and despair—gradually, then suddenly. Adam Smith used to proclaim the fabled invisible hand of the market, but, as I hope this debate has clarified, for the poor in our community, that invisible hand is an all-too-visible clenched fist that grinds them further into desperation and penury. No-one should be in debt simply from struggling to survive. And it's the last clause of our motion that I'll close with: the need to introduce measures that place a duty on public bodies to prevent debt. Because managing debt once it's happened doesn't do away with trauma or tragedy. Supporting people with dignity and respect and preventing that harm from occurring—that is how a civilised society should operate, and it's a motion and a principle, Llywydd, that I commend to the Chamber. 

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. I will defer the vote until voting time.

And that brings us to voting time, but we will need to suspend proceedings to prepare for voting, so we will take a break now and we'll return to vote.

Plenary was suspended at 18:21.

The Senedd reconvened at 18:27, with the Llywydd in the Chair.