3. Statement by the First Minister: Programme for Government — Update.

– in the Senedd at 2:47 pm on 7 December 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:47, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

The next item is the statement by the First Minister on the update on the programme for government, and I call on the First Minister to make the statement—Mark Drakeford.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

(Translated)

Llywydd, our programme for government for this term was published within weeks of the elections in May, and I made a statement to the Senedd on 15 June. The programme was published early, so that we could make a start on the radical and ambitious policies that we need as we face the unique combination of the ongoing pandemic, the aftermath of Brexit and the challenge of climate change. We also face the first majority Conservative Government at Westminster in the history of devolution, a Government that routinely attempts to undermine and roll back the devolution settlement at every turn, a settlement which has been endorsed in two successive referendums. Today, I want to provide an update on progress and draw attention to amendments made to the programme for government to reflect the co-operation agreement, which the leader of Plaid Cymru and I signed last week.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:48, 7 December 2021

Llywydd, I make this statement as we continue to respond to the pandemic, including to the latest adverse developments in order to meet our overriding priority in the programme for government, and that is to keep Wales safe at a time of a global public health crisis. This week marks a year since vaccinations became available. Since then, more than 5.5 million doses have been given to adults and children over the age of 12 in Wales, thanks to the enormous efforts of our vaccination programme.

Last week, the first case of the new omicron variant was confirmed in Wales. We now stand on the brink of another potentially perilous moment in our efforts to keep Wales safe and to keep Wales open. Our public health experts have modelled the potential effect of the new variant in Wales, drawing on the latest information from South Africa and other parts of the world. While there is still a great deal to be learned and any modelling at this point is inevitably provisional, we have to brace ourselves for the potential for a formidable wave of new infections in the new year, potentially just six weeks from now, if we cannot slow the spread of this new variant.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:50, 7 December 2021

Vaccination remains our strongest defence against this cruel virus. By this time next week, a million people in Wales will already have received a third, booster dose. But there are still too many people yet to take up the offer of vaccination, and if there is one message that I would like to convey today, it has to be this: when you receive your invitation for a vaccine, whether it’s your first, second or booster vaccination, please make it your priority. There is nothing else that you will do that day that will do more to help keep you or to keep others safe. And it is never too late to be vaccinated here in Wales. If you've yet to be vaccinated, please, come forward now. It is the best Christmas present you can give yourself and your family this year, and it’s not too dramatic to say that it’s an investment in making sure that you are here for a healthy and happy Christmas next year as well.

Llywydd, despite the ongoing challenge of responding to the pandemic, as a Government we continue to press forward, wherever we can, with our priorities and all those actions that will create a better future beyond the pandemic. My party set out six headline pledges in our manifesto earlier this year. We have made significant progress on all of them, and I'll highlight just three today.

We said that we would retain the 500 police community support officers we have in Wales, who do so much to keep our communities safe, and that we would fund a further 100 over the lifetime of this Senedd. That pledge will be kept in full not over five years, but in the first year of this Senedd term. The funding has been secured and the recruitment of the 100 extra PCSOs is well under way. I had the privilege of spending time on the beat with police officers in Wrexham recently, where I heard first-hand about the benefit that those extra posts will bring to front-line policing.

Last month, the economy Minister launched the first phase of the young person’s guarantee, a guarantee that will ensure there is no lost generation here in Wales following the pandemic. We also promised to pay social care workers the real living wage. We've now received the advice from the social care forum about how to do that for a large and mobile workforce spread over hundreds of employers in the public and private sectors, and, when we publish our draft budget on 20 December, there will be further detail of how we will take that very important commitment forward.

Practical efforts to deliver the remainder of our radical programme continue every day. We promised we would invest in our health and care workforce and create a new medical school in north Wales. This weekend, as the leader of the opposition said earlier, the health Minister announced extra funding for the health and medical workforce of the future for the eighth year running, adding another £260 million to the training budget.

We said we would create a new national music service for Wales, and last week the education Minister confirmed £6.8 million for music and the arts in schools, giving students access to musical instruments.

We made a commitment to go on working to eliminate violence against women and girls, and, as I said earlier this afternoon, today we launch consultation on our new five-year strategy.

Llywydd, later this afternoon my colleague Rebecca Evans will make a statement on how we intend to reform the council tax here in Wales. This is one of the specific areas covered by the co-operation agreement. I believe it is an excellent example of what the agreement will enable this Senedd to achieve. Council tax is the most regressive form of taxation in Wales. Those with the smallest incomes pay a far higher proportion of those incomes in council tax than those who are far better off. In the last Senedd term, a report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies set out ways in which council tax could be reformed to make it fairer. Now, there are some veterans in this Chamber of the last major council tax revaluation of 2003, and they will remember just how complex and politically challenging that proved to be. The co-operation agreement will give us the stability and the combined political capacity to make reform happen again, 20 years on from that first revaluation. And, Llywydd, we will go beyond the reform of the current system. We will use the next three years covered by the co-operation agreement to build together on the work carried out in the last Senedd term on more fundamental alternatives to council tax, alternatives that could be both fairer to the citizen and more effective in supporting economic development in all parts of Wales. This is just one example from the 46 areas in the co-operation agreement, and each one of those is now represented in the revised programme for government, which we have published.

Llywydd, there is only one programme for government. It is the framework within which the civil service and other partners focus their efforts on the priorities across our devolved responsibilities. There are key parts of the programme that will now be taken forward in a progressive alliance between the Welsh Labour Government and Plaid Cymru, and that will harness our efforts in the face of unprecedented challenges and the hostility of an incompetent and neglectful UK Government at Westminster. [Interruption.] Well, Llywydd, others won't know that there are cries of 'shocking', and I agree with that—it is shocking the degree of hostility and incompetence that we face every single day from that Government, so I'm happy to associate myself with those comments.

Amongst the immediate focus of those programme for government policies that reflect the co-operation agreement will be the extension to free school meals in all primary schools for all primary school pupils, the expansion of childcare to two-year-olds, and radical and immediate actions to address the problems faced by people unable to secure a first home in communities with many second homes and holiday homes as well. Consultations have been launched on a range of policy instruments that we can use, and now the real work to develop and deliver new policies in those areas will be taken forward in partnership.

Llywydd, I will end where I began this afternoon. I'm very pleased to have been able to provide this update today. I believe the ability to work with others on shared agendas has been the hallmark of successive Senedd terms, and will offer tangible benefits to people in Wales over the next three years. But, the pressing public health emergency will have to preoccupy us all over the coming weeks. Through our vaccination programme and all the other actions we can take to keep one another safe, we will weather the storm that lies ahead of us. But that is not a responsibility of the Government alone. There is the need for each one of us, for every Welsh citizen, to go on acting together once again to save lives that would otherwise be lost, to protect our health service and our social care services from the risk that they would otherwise be overwhelmed, and to lead Wales safely through a period of danger that is facing us all.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 2:59, 7 December 2021

First Minister, thank you for your statement, and can I agree with you on your last pronouncement there about the challenges ahead for us, and the need for people to come forward and get the booster vaccine, and bearing down on this terrible virus, and also the pressures that it's putting on our NHS? So, it's always good to start a statement on a point where we can find common agreement, but where we disagree, obviously, is what the leader of Plaid Cymru said about the agreement that you've reached with Plaid Cymru—that this was a down payment on independence. So, is this programme for government that you're introducing today a down payment on independence, First Minister, because it would be good to hear what your take is on it, because—and the last time I looked—I've always thought that the Labour Party was a unionist party?

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 3:00, 7 December 2021

Could I also ask around the mechanisms of how the programme for government will be scrutinised now that there will be designated Members coming out of Plaid Cymru to support the policy development and work within Government? At the moment, there is no mechanism to scrutinise designated Members, because it's a new term, it's a new position. I congratulate Siân Gwenllian, who I think is the first appointment as a designated Member in this agreement. But do you agree with me that it is important that the role that they will assume within Government is scrutinised and that that is afforded the opportunity from the Government in their time for us as an opposition party to scrutinise those Members? Because this isn't solely a role for the Presiding Officer; the Government control business on a Tuesday and, in my understanding, could make time available for that to happen. So, I think that's very important for us to understand, because this is a three-year deal; it's not a three-week deal, it's a three-year deal, and it's important that we as opposition Members can have that opportunity to scrutinise the designated Member role supporting Ministers on the front bench.

I'd also like to understand how the programme for government is making progress on waiting times, in particular the chronic waiting times we're seeing because of the COVID pandemic where, if you take young people out of those waiting times, nearly one in four people are on a waiting list now somewhere in Wales. If we're not careful, and if your Government isn't careful, these waiting times could ultimately consume the Government going forward. I appreciate the previous health Minister said it would take a full Assembly term, or parliamentary term, to deal with these waiting times, but I think it's important that we can understand what progress is being made, because behind every stat that comes out is an individual and a family with a loved one who, ultimately, is most probably in some form of excruciating pain waiting for a procedure within our NHS.

I notice you didn't mention anything on the clean air Act, First Minister, which was part of your leadership manifesto and was a key debating point within the parliamentary election that we had in April. I'd be pleased to understand if you could update us on that, because I know from lobbying and also outside organisations that there is a very keen need to progress on this. If Mike Hedges was here, I'm sure he'd be joining me in that, because I know that he's kept a very keen eye on the progress, or not as the case may be, to date with the introduction of a clean air Act. 

On free school lunches, which is a central policy of the agreement that you've reached with Plaid Cymru, I'd be grateful and I'm sure many others would be grateful to understand the budgetary implications of this policy and to try and understand how it balances up with the need for those with the broadest shoulders to make the biggest contributions. I'm not sure it's a sensible policy area where you have solicitors, estate agents and accountants benefiting from having free school lunches when the system already allows for those on challenging income positions to receive those free school lunches as they rightly should. I think the cheers in St Andrew's Crescent in Cardiff, knowing that now they're going to benefit from free school lunches, isn't a good use of valuable public resources, to say the least. 

We do agree on the reform of school term times. I think that's a sensible proposition. I can remember when I first came in here in 2007, Jane Hutt had a very short period as the education Minister at that time, and I remember raising that particular point with her. Some people might have forgotten that, but I do remember raising that point and at that time I didn't seem to get much traction on that particular idea.

We do want to see progress in the care system. We do want to see progress on the building safety fund, which is talked about in the programme for government, and I appreciate there's a statement next week on this, but it is vitally important that that statement does come forward with tangible proposals to address this key area that many residents find their lives being blighted by at the moment.

You touched on local government reform, and in particular around the funding formula. Good luck with that, I'd say, to be honest with you. I think you're in for a challenging time to say the least there, First Minister. But that's what Government is about, challenging these things and making sure that we put solutions in place, or should I say you put solutions in place. But what I'd be pleased to try and understand is whether it's a two-stage approach: (1) revaluation to start with, and then (2) more fundamental reform. And if that is the case, would both aspects be completed within this five-year term of office, or will it be revaluation this term of office, more fundamental reform post 2026? I think, especially ahead of the local government elections next May, people need to know where the direction of travel is on this important policy area. As you highlighted, it's 20 years since the last revaluation, but the complexities around it are challenging to say the least. 

My final point I'd just like to raise with you is the constitutional commission, which I appreciate is just up and running now. This is just for my own curiosity. Reading the partnership document with Plaid Cymru, it says that the interim report and their final report will be presented to both parties. I'm just interested to see why that is included in the document as a position that that constitutional commission has to present its interim report and its final report as if it's exclusively for Plaid Cymru and the Labour Party to take ownership of that document. So, that's more for my own curiosity to be satisfied, but I'd be grateful if you could answer the points that I've put to you.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:05, 7 December 2021

Well, I thank the leader of the Welsh Conservatives for those detailed questions, and can I thank him for the way he began, for his support for the call for people to come forward for vaccination? Every single Member of the Senedd has a reach into our own communities. We regularly publish things; we're always trying to communicate with people who vote in our localities, and anything any one of us can do to get that message over is another small contribution to building the defence that we will need in Wales, if we were to see an omicron wave of infection of the sort that some analysts are suggesting.

Independence doesn't appear at all in the co-operation agreement. It is one of those things on which we will continue to have many debates, I'm sure, across the floor of the Senedd. My party's position has not altered at all. We believe in an entrenched devolution system, a devolution system that cannot be arbitrarily rowed back by a Government at Westminster, but we also believe that Wales is better off in a successful United Kingdom and that the United Kingdom is better off for having Wales as a part of it, and I'm quite sure we will go on debating those different positions.

The scrutiny issue, I genuinely think, Llywydd, is not a matter for me. I'm very wary of the idea that the Government should have a hand in drawing up arrangements to be scrutinising the decisions that we make, but there were important points made by the leader of the opposition, quite definitely. I know that the Business Committee will have taken a paper today that groups in the Senedd will want to consider, and in the end, it is absolutely a matter for the Senedd to decide on its own arrangements, not for the Government to have a direct hand in them.

I don't dissent from part of what the Member said about waiting times in the NHS. It's a matter of considerable grief to me that we went into the pandemic with waiting times in the Welsh NHS the lowest since 2014 and falling, and now we face a very different position, as does every part of the United Kingdom. I'm pleased, in a very modest way, to see in the latest figures some waiting times coming down for some of the most urgent conditions. We talked about cancer earlier, and waiting times fell for cancer in the most recent period, but those are small advances in a very difficult position, and we continue to work with other Governments. If there are any ideas that we have not thought of for ourselves that can help us to make the progress we want to make on waiting times in Wales, then of course we want to learn those things from anywhere where they are available.

The programme for government continues to contain a commitment to introduce a clean air Act for Wales, consistent with World Health Organization guidance and to extend the provision of air quality monitoring, and that process will begin early in the Senedd term with a normal White Paper, followed by a Bill for the Senedd to consider. I continue to look forward to working with other parts of the Chamber who have a shared interest in that.

We have a fundamentally different view on the issue of means testing and universal services. I think school meals is in some ways the paradigm case for the impact that means testing has, because it casts a stigma over those people for whom the system is meant to be a beneficiary. I remember a very old story, Llywydd, which my colleague Jane Hutt and some others here will remember. The former leader of South Glamorgan County Council, Lord Jack Brooks, used to tell a story about how, as an 18-year-old, he went out to a dancehall here in Cardiff, all dressed up for the night, and he saw a young woman coming across the room to him and he thought that maybe his evening was going to be more successful than he had originally anticipated, and this young woman came up to him and said, 'I know you', she said, 'You're Jack Brooks, aren't you?' and he said, 'Yes', and she said, 'You're the one who used to have free school meals when we were in primary school together.' And even at that age, the hurt that that caused him had never left him and it must have been 50 years later that he told us that story and it was still vivid, you could tell in the way that he told it. And that's why, on this side of the Chamber, we believe that universal services where there is no stigma attached—. And of course the people in St Andrews Crescent should pay, but they should pay through the taxation system, a graduated taxation system that takes more back from people who have more to start with, not means test the service so that those people who really need it don't get the service they really need, they get all the disadvantages that go alongside it. My colleague Rebecca Evans will set out the budgetary implications; we've made proper budgetary provision for the policy set out in the agreement.

Thank you to Andrew R.T. Davies for what he said about reforming the school term and the school year, it'll be good to work on that together, and for the issues of social care and building safety. The proposal for local government reform is a two-stage process. In this Senedd term, I'll want us to grasp the difficult issues of reforming the current system, so that the current system is as fair as we can make it, and at the same time, we will go on working on the possibilities for more fundamental reform. There was a lot of work done on this in the last Senedd term, but if you're going to, let us say, replace the council tax with a form of land value taxation, that can't be done in a single term; that would lie beyond the current term.

The reports of the constitutional commission will, of course, be available to all parties once they are published and I'm grateful to the leader of the Welsh Conservatives for having made a nomination to the commission. I'm sure that her participation in its deliberations will add a great deal to the necessary challenge that you want in a group of people brought together to look at such fundamentally important matters.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 3:12, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I knew that that phrase, 'a down payment on independence', would upset the Tories; they're very easily upset these days. But what I meant by that, what was on my mind, was another phrase that Raymond Williams coined where he talked about real independence. Not independence as a theory, but real independence for him were the policies that would transform people's lives. And although you and I, First Minister, disagree on the constitutional future of Wales, both of us would agree that the purpose of politics is to change people's lives.

And as one who was, for a period of time, in receipt of free school meals as a secondary school pupil, I can tell you that this is the proudest moment in all my time in politics, to see not only that policy contained within the co-operation agreement, but it being reflected here today in the programme for government. That is something that we can take pride in and, of course, the co-operation: it's two parties coming together in a spirit of co-operation, to achieve what? In order to achieve change and, indeed, to transform the lives of the people of Wales today and, of course, from our party's perspective, to sow that seed in people's minds, 'Well, if we can do this within the limitations of our powers and our budgets, well just imagine what we could do as a nation if we held all of those powers in our own hands in the future.' That's what was on my mind when I talked about a down payment on independence.

I welcome the spirit of co-operation in which you've presented this statement today. We don't agree with everything in the programme for government, because it is the Government's programme, of course. Although around a quarter of the commitments are in the new version, that is, the delivery objectives—because there is a difference, is there not, between the co-operation agreement and what's reflected in the programme for government; that is, you are focusing in this document on what the Government will deliver—three quarters of them are things that are outwith the co-operation agreement: some of them we as a party agree with, and we will support, others we will continue to oppose as a constructive opposition.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 3:15, 7 December 2021

It's interesting, I think, this debate about the role of Government and opposition. It reminds me of a famous phrase by the American political scientist Robert Dahl, who once said:

'To say where the government leaves off and the opposition begins is an exercise in metaphysics.'

He was a great theorist of pluralism in democracy; that, actually, in a true democracy, power is distributed and we all have a role—we all have a role—in actually being part of policy making and making a difference. So, I don't buy into this very arid Westminster adversarial model. We all have a responsibility in this Chamber. Everyone who's not in the Cabinet, actually, including Labour backbenchers, has a scrutiny role, and it's a role that we should all take very, very seriously.

But we also should be co-operative in our approach to making a difference. It was interesting to read the legal advice that you've received from Lord Pannick, Llywydd, that's been distributed to Members this afternoon. He goes on to say about the co-operation agreement that, 'From a constitutional perspective, it's difficult to see how it could be improper to adopt a procedure that develops policy by seeking to build consensus, thereby gaining the support of those representing a greater proportion of the electorate'.

It should be at the heart of any democratic system, but it certainly was baked into the foundational principles of this institution. Though this is the programme of the Government—it sets out the outcomes that you, as an executive, are seeking to achieve—I applaud the embrace of a co-operative approach to politics, because that's the way in which we can have, collectively, as an entire Senedd—. Because I know that there are constructive ideas, and I was glad to support Peter Fox's Bill in terms of creating a food system for Wales. Good ideas can come from everywhere, and by working together we can better achieve that better Wales that we should aspire to on all sides. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:17, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

I thank Adam Price for those comments. Of course, I agree with what he said about the spirit of the programme that we've agreed together. Where we can co-operate, it's important that we do co-operate, and that's been part of the history of devolution here in Wales from the outset. What we've agreed in this term is something new—something that we've created together here in Wales—but it's part of the tradition that we've created. We can co-operate, it's important for us to do that.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:18, 7 December 2021

Seventy-five per cent of the programme for government is, indeed, outside the agreement, and there will be days when we have differences of views on many of those items, but that's exactly what we recognised would happen when we started off on the journey to create the agreement we were able to sign last week.

This may be relatively novel here, in the sense that it's the latest manifestation of co-operation, Llywydd, but it's not unheard of at all in other parts of the world. Indeed, the Pannick advice that I saw drew attention to the agreement between the Conservative Government in Westminster and the Democratic Unionist Party, when they had support for that Government from outside the Government, with an elaborate machinery to support it and £1.5 billion worth of investment to oil the wheels of those arrangements as well. So, there is nothing that we are doing here that does not have important parallels elsewhere—in Scandinavia, in New Zealand and, indeed, closer to home.

I have been struck, Llywydd, by the number of people who have said to me in the last week or so how pleased they are to see people in the Senedd working together on really challenging agendas. I think it is what people outside the narrow circle of politics that we operate in look to us to do, and where we can, we should. That's true of any part of the Chamber where that sort of agreement can be found. And where we cannot, then the debate that we have and the clash of ideas allows us all to think about the ideas we advance and, hopefully, to improve them as part of that process.  

Photo of Vikki Howells Vikki Howells Labour 3:20, 7 December 2021

Thank you, First Minister, for your statement today. I’m really glad you gave that robust message around the importance of vaccinations and boosters, which will, of course, underpin what we want to do over the coming period. Will you also reaffirm the importance of face coverings, physical distancing and hand washing to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe this Christmas?

I also welcome the commitment to extend free school meal provision, building on the previous programme for government. I think one of the most important interventions during the pandemic has been providing access to free school meals 365 days of the year to eligible children and young people. We know, of course, that provision has been guaranteed by the Welsh Government until Easter 2022, but what consideration has the Government given to this aspect of its work, and whether it might be extended, to make sure that children and young people don’t go hungry during the school holidays?

Finally, I welcome your comments around the real living wage for our social care workforce. When can we expect an update on the next steps from those discussions?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:21, 7 December 2021

I thank Vikki Howells for those questions. She’s absolutely right; vaccination, while it is the single most important defence we have, is by no means the only one. It's those simple things that we’ve learned to do in our own lives—the face coverings, the social distancing, hand washing, just being respectful of other people. If you’re out and about and there’s a lot of other people there, think about the other people who are in the room with you and treat them with proper respect. I believe that the COVID pass is an important part of the defences that we’ve built here in Wales, and those everyday actions that we can take together, cumulatively, amount to an important defence.

On the particular issue of holiday hunger, the programme for government does, of course, commit us to going on developing the system of responding to holiday hunger that we embarked upon at the start of the last Senedd term, even when there was no money for anything, because our budgets have been cut year after year. When I was finance Minister, one of the things that I was proudest of was the fact that we found money in that very first year to begin a national system of help for young people so that they didn’t go hungry during the holidays. More than just a meal, it was that whole experience of young people being able to come into school, focus on nutrition, parents involved, cooking meals together, learning through fun, physical activity—that basket of issues that our SHEP programme, the school holiday enrichment programme, has been able to deliver in an expanding number of schools, year on year, up to the point of the pandemic, and then again in the school holidays in this year. The programme for government commits us to go on extending that work.  

Photo of Samuel Kurtz Samuel Kurtz Conservative 3:23, 7 December 2021

Prif Weinidog, I note that in the updated programme for government, the nitrate vulnerable zone regulations are included, having not been included in the original programme published in June. On Sunday’s episode of the BBC's Politics Wales, you said that there would be no roll-back of the NVZ regulations and that—and I quote—'it was never the intention there would be some sort of blanket approach'. So, if a Wales-wide yet targeted approach was always this Government’s intention, then what exactly have Plaid Cymru achieved in the co-operation agreement for farmers, given that they previously opposed the NVZ regulations? And if, as you say, Prif Weinidog, there are to be no changes to the NVZ policy, then is the evidence currently being gathered and the recommendations due to be submitted by the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee completely futile? Diolch.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:24, 7 December 2021

I’m afraid, Llywydd, there’s a fundamental misunderstanding from the Member about what we have agreed. It is not that there is no change to the policy—it is that there is no change to the regulations that were passed on the floor of this Senedd towards the end of the last term. Those regulations remain on the statute book and we will not be revoking them. But, of course we will listen carefully to the work of the committee; the agreement commits us to working closely with the farming community about the way in which those regulations are used, in order to do what I think every Member in this Chamber wants to see done. Pollution in the farming industry goes on year after year; the numbers don't come down. The reputational damage to the industry is significant and it accumulates year by year, as we fail to get a grip on where the difficulties take place. The agreement commits us to deploying the regulations in a way that focuses on those greatest areas of difficulty. That's very consistent with the way I would want to see the regulations used. If there is advice that we get from the committee about how we can use the regulations to bear down on agricultural pollution, to defend the reputation of the industry, to make sure that it can go on, as so many farmers do, working hard to gain a reputation for the quality of the products that they are involved in, then we will have a very good outcome.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 3:26, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

Thank you, First Minister, for the statement. I welcome this expanded and reformed programme of government to reflect those areas where Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government have been able to find that common ground where we can collaborate. And, of course, we've kept an unflinching focus in those discussions on securing the well-being of the people of Wales and transforming the lives of the people of Wales, as Adam Price said, and the broader democratic interests of Wales too.

I'm sure you would agree with me, First Minister, that this shows that more can be delivered through collaboration, where that's possible, rather than the competition that we often associate with other Parliaments within these isles. But this is a vehicle now to tackle some of those policy areas where we need the strongest leadership. They are the areas where you need the most determined political will to tackle, and I'm thinking particularly about the climate emergency, the housing crisis, the democratic deficit, just to name three areas.

Mapping the route to net zero by 2035 to me is a very clear statement of intent, that Wales wants to join those nations and regions that have shown the greatest ambition anywhere in the world in tackling what is one of the greatest challenges facing humanity. And ambition never stays still, particularly in this context. I've said in the past that there are too many people in this world who try and go halfway up the mountain and succeed; we must aim for the peak. And, okay, we're pragmatic enough to accept that we won't get there every time, but we will go further than halfway, and therefore, that ambition is certainly something that we need to commit to.

The housing crisis—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 3:28, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

I need a question to the First Minister now.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

I asked whether the First Minister agreed with me.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

You are way over time, Llyr Gruffydd, so please ask your final question.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

I didn't understand that there was a time limit.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru

The Tories are clearly pretty exercised by the co-operation agreement, and I wonder what the First Minister's assessment is of why that may be. Because we all remember, as you referred to, the Tory £1 billion bung—is it that we've shown the proper way of negotiating a parliamentary agreement with full transparency in terms of the workings of this agreement that you think that they're so agitated?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:29, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

I thank Llyr Gruffydd for the comments. We only have 30 votes in the Labour Party on the floor of the Senedd, and if we do want to press ahead with radical and ambitious issues, that's not adequate. And that's why the agreement is important, because it does focus on the areas that are difficult to press ahead with without more support.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

That is exactly why I have believed that an agreement was so important. I remember saying to the leader of Plaid Cymru, in one of our very first discussions, that I wasn't particularly attracted to an agreement on easy things, because easy things we can probably do anyway. What I wanted was an agreement on difficult things, challenging things, where, if we couldn't form an agreement, the chances were diminished that we would be able to make the progress that I think people in Wales would benefit from as a result of the agreement. 

Maybe in a spirit of co-operation this afternoon, Llywydd, I will say that, actually, I didn't hear fundamental hostility to the idea of an agreement from the leader of the opposition. I heard instead concerns about scrutiny and differences of view on particular policies, which I absolutely expect, but I did not myself hear, in the contribution of Andrew R.T. Davies, a fundamental disagreement on the fact that parties in this Chamber can reach an agreement, and can then work together to achieve those outcomes. 

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat 3:30, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

Thank you, First Minister, for your statement this afternoon. I want to focus on one issue, and that's mental health. 

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat 3:31, 7 December 2021

During the period immediately before the pandemic, 11.7 per cent of Welsh people suffered severe mental health issues. This share climbed up to 28.1 per cent in April 2020, particularly affecting young people and children during that time. So, I just wondered if I could ask for some clarity on what the commitment in the arrangement with Plaid Cymru is to improve the referral pathways that are mentioned into treatment, and how that will come about in practice, particularly for young people. 

And, secondly, if I may ask: whilst physical health emergencies can arise at any time of day or night, so as well can mental health emergencies. And we won't achieve parity of esteem between physical and mental health issues unless we have a 24/7 crisis care service. May I ask what ideas you have to move that forward within the agreement? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:32, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

I thank Jane Dodds for those questions, and, of course, I agree about the importance of mental health, particularly among young people, as I've said more than once on the Senedd floor. Every time I meet groups of young people, mental well-being arises every time. 

There is one point in the co-operation between us and Plaid Cymru on mental health. That's something specific, and the Minister responsible for mental health will work on that. But, of course, that's just one thing in a bigger series of programmes that we have in mental health. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

When the draft budget is laid, Llywydd, Members will be able to see, I believe, continued investment in the broader field of mental health, including emergency and crisis services that go beyond the specific part of mental health that we've been able to agree as part of our co-operation agreement. And I hope that when the Member sees the budget, she will recognise the impact that she and other Members in the Chamber have had when they have regularly pointed to the impact that the pandemic has had on the mental health of our young people in particular. 

Photo of James Evans James Evans Conservative 3:33, 7 December 2021

I too, First Minister, thank you for your statement, and do want to ask around mental health community facilities, which are mentioned in your agreement with Plaid Cymru—you say you want facilities run by trained third sector staff, and this is something that I do support for young people because we are seeing child and adolescent mental health service referrals going up, and waiting lists getting longer. Some people simply can't just wait on a waiting list while their problems get worse. It does state there will be clear referral pathways into NHS services with urgent mental health or emotional well-being issues. 

So, can you just give us some clarity and assurance that, when those young people are referred into the NHS, those services that will be required will be there urgently for those people, because I don't think it's acceptable for them to be referred and then have to wait months and months and months for an appointment? Diolch, Llywydd. 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:34, 7 December 2021

I thank the Member; that it is an important point. I met recently with a very successful third sector organisation in the field of mental health, together with the Minister, Lynne Neagle. And the point that we discussed there is one that I know I have rehearsed many times here in the Senedd, that the reason why young people sometimes wait too long is because there are too many people in the queue for an appointment who don't need that sort of service. And the third sector organisation was, I thought, very convincingly able to demonstrate that, with their much lower level, non-clinical-type of intervention, only that much smaller fraction of young people who needed a genuinely specialist service then went on to look for that service. And because there were fewer people coming through the door, then that specialist service was able to see them more quickly. So, that's why we talk about referral pathways. We want to make sure that there are those everyday services, non-stigmatised, available to young people who are going through a tough time in the difficult business of growing up, particularly in the extraordinary circumstances of a pandemic. They get the help they need from trained people, capable of responding to that level of need, but those people are also sufficiently skilled and qualified to be able to identify those young people who need something beyond what they can offer, and then only those young people move on to those services, making them more quickly available as a result.

Photo of Rhianon Passmore Rhianon Passmore Labour 3:36, 7 December 2021

I want to thank you, First Minister, for your programme of government statement here today, and the spirit of co-operation outlined. I was delighted that you referenced that the Welsh Labour Government promised in the election campaign to create a new national music service. So, it was pleasing to see the education Minister confirm that £6.8 million will be made available for creative arts learning in the curriculum, and music in part, giving students better access to musical instruments. And I particularly welcome Jeremy Miles's commitment that the instruments will be distributed in the first instance to learners who are less likely to already have access to them, such as those eligible for free school meals. This is a promising start to delivering on our stated commitment. First Minister, when will the engines of teaching and learning the new music service for Wales be delivered, and what does it say to the people of Wales about how highly the Welsh Labour Government values access to musical education? What further measures, First Minister, will Welsh Government be taking to ensure no child in Wales is left behind?

(Translated)

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:37, 7 December 2021

Dirprwy Lywydd, I can honestly say that I didn't know Rhianon Passmore was behind me during the statement—otherwise, I would have made even more of the investment that Jeremy Miles announced in music services. I'm sure I'm very far from the only Member of the Senedd who was given an instrument in school to try out, to see whether I would go on—as I then did, to learn to play the clarinet. And if it hadn't been for the fact that there was an instrument there for me to try out, that would never have happened. It wasn't easy finding money for an instrument in the house that I grew up in, but my parents, having seen what I could do, were very committed to making sure that I went on enjoying that. And I was very, very fortunate to have been brought up in that great Welsh tradition of school orchestras, county orchestras, national youth orchestras. It was a formative part of my upbringing, and we want to make sure that young people in Wales go on being able to play a full part in exactly that. The national music service is a commitment for the five years of the term, because money alone, as I know Rhianon will know very well, is not the whole of the answer. There's an issue of the workforce, and the skilled workforce, and making sure that there are facilities for young people to be able to enjoy as well. But it's an important commitment there in the programme for government, and I'm very glad we've been able to give it some prominence this afternoon.

Photo of Sioned Williams Sioned Williams Plaid Cymru 3:39, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

The First Minister made reference in his statement to some of the major changes made to the programme for government in light of the co-operation agreement between Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government. Without doubt, the commitment to introduce free school meals for all primary school children, and to extend free childcare to all two-year-olds, are two practical steps that will benefit thousands of families directly, and will make a major contribution to mitigating the effect in increasing living costs for households, and make a Wales that is more just for everyone. And that's why anti-poverty organisations, such as the Bevan Foundation, have welcomed the agreement. Will the First Minister join with me in giving due thanks to the contribution that many anti-poverty groups and campaigning groups, such as Cynulliad y Werin, have done over many years, in leading up to adopting these policies that are now at the heart of the programme for government today?

And, as one who's been campaigning for free school meals for all children, I'm extremely pleased that the Government is to prioritise expanding free school meals, particularly. I'm sure the Government would agree that it's an important first step to eradicate the appalling levels of child poverty in Wales, and to agree with the Bevan Foundation and other groups that we need to go further when resources allow. And, as these innovative and bold policies are put in place, it is a shame that the Conservative Party, that hasn't won a single election in Wales, is fighting against these efforts to battle poverty. The appalling cut to universal credit is one of the latest examples of that. So, First Minister, what can we do, in light of the agreement, to ensure that such policies, that have no mandate here in Wales, are not forced upon our people, undermining the major steps forward that we're taking? 

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:41, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

Well, Deputy Llywydd, I thank Sioned Williams, and I agree that we are lucky in Wales to have a number of agencies in the third sector and people who undertake research who help us to create policies that are appropriate for the challenges we face in Wales, and, of course, the purpose of those bodies is to pressure us to do more. And that's great, isn't it? We're lucky to have people who are willing to strive in that fashion and to show us how we can do more than we expected to do. Of course, for me, as the First Minister, the first priority is to focus on the things that we've agreed to do in the agreement and to do everything that we can to pursue everything that we have agreed together. But receiving support from external bodies outside the Senedd, particularly those focusing on child poverty—well, we're very lucky to have them. 

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 3:42, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

And, finally, Gareth Davies. 

Photo of Gareth Davies Gareth Davies Conservative

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Deputy Llywydd. And thank you for your statement this afternoon, First Minister. While your compact with Plaid Cymru—or should I say coalition in all but name, according to many of your own backbenchers, at least—has generated a great deal of furore down here in the Cardiff bubble, it means very little to the care worker in north Wales struggling to make ends meet on less pay than someone working at the local Lidl store. First Minister, how does this update provide any clarity for the care sector? When will care staff see a decent wage and better conditions? How will consulting on a national care service deliver much needed improvements to care provision in Wales? What timescales do you place on legislating to further integrate health and care?

And, finally, First Minister, your pronouncement on eliminating profit from children's care is already impacting the sector, as care providers are finding it difficult to secure finance to open new care facilities. I note that you have dropped this commitment to achieving this unreasonable and unrealistic goal during this Senedd term. When do you plan on eliminating profit from care, given that the private sector provides 80 per cent of care? Wouldn't it be better to abandon the goal altogether? Surely we should focus efforts on ensuring children get good quality care in Wales, rather than pursuing a dogmatic vendetta against the private care sector. Thank you.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:43, 7 December 2021

Well, I entirely disagree. I think there was a substantive point at the end there, and, I'm afraid, the Member has got it completely wrong. I am very proud of the fact that we are committed to eliminating the pursuit of private profit in the care of children here in Wales. I have a vivid memory of the report that the children's commissioner prepared for us, when a young woman talks about the way she saw herself put up on a website and her care offered to the company that was willing to do it the cheapest, and that is not the way I want to see our children in Wales looked after. There is a journey here. We have to build up the capacity of our public services to provide that care closer to where young people live, and to look after more children where families are struggling closer to their own communities. But that's the way to look after children, here in Wales, where the money that the public provides is exclusively devoted to the care of those children, without an increment being taken away, and almost always taken out of Wales as well, into the profit margins of private companies. He may think that's a good idea; on this side of the Chamber we certainly don't.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 3:45, 7 December 2021

(Translated)

Thank you, First Minister.