3. Will the Minister provide an update on the net-zero carbon targets for new school and college buildings in Wales? OQ57312

I have mandated net-zero carbon under the new banner of 'sustainable communities for learning' for the twenty-first century schools and colleges investment programme from 1 January next year. All new–build, major refurbishment and extension projects will need to demonstrate delivery of net-zero carbon in operation plus a 20 per cent reduction on the amount of embodied carbon.

Diolch, and I want to say a huge thank you to the Minister for his commitment to ensuring that net zero is a priority for our twenty-first century schools. It's an absolutely fantastic development commitment. As our climate change Minister said earlier, it is a wonderful part of our roles to be able to speak to pupils of all ages across our constituencies, and I'm constantly inspired by how much they care about protecting our environment and are just so committed to doing so. A great example of this is that, in my constituency of Bridgend, as of this year, Litchard Primary School have had solar panels installed to become more efficient and consume less energy, and pupils and staff on their eco-committee have been at the forefront of managing the energy-saving measures. So, therefore, could I ask you, Minister, whether you would be able to visit Litchard Primary School and the eco-committee so that they can ask you about other ideas that they have, and show you what they've been doing and talking about how Welsh Government can further support them in their efforts to meet their ambitious environmental leader ambitions?

I would certainly be happy to do that and I thank the Member for bringing that important point to the Chamber. I was listening to her exchange with the climate change Minister earlier, and I think it is really inspiring, looking at the kind of scale of some of the challenges that lie ahead of us, to see how far ahead many of our younger pupils are, maybe than even some of us who've reflected for longer periods of time on these questions from a policy point of view, if I can put it like that.

I think there's an opportunity for us here as well to make sure that, in the new curriculum, with its emphasis on making sure our children and young people are ethically informed citizens, with that focus on sustainability, we do everything we can to listen to their voices in how we design both the curriculum and also the education infrastructure through which the curriculum is delivered. I remember as well the fantastic visit I made with her to Nottage primary in her constituency, and seeing the excitement of the young children there about these issues was very inspiring as well.

Minister, since you will be in Bridgend, I would recommend you also to see a school in my ward, Pen-y-fai. Minister, it is relatively straightforward to set targets for our new school and college buildings, and ensuring that they contribute to our net-zero carbon target is not something that ought to cause many problems. The bigger challenge is that many of our school buildings were built in the late Victorian and early Edwardian period—impressive, solid, red-brick buildings that are likely to be more problematic as we move away from gas heating. What assessment has he undertaken of the budget that will need to be allocated for these schools to meet our obligation? Thank you. 

I thank the Member for the question. I think the scale of the challenge that lies ahead of us, and which I think we're all aware of, means that we need to make every contribution we can. So, I do think that the sustainable communities for learning programme in the future will make a significant contribution, certainly in the area of new build and major refurbishment and extension projects, and the criteria for the first wave will become progressively more taxing, if I can put it like that, as the Welsh Government's own targets become more stringent in the years ahead, taking us on our path to a net-zero Wales. But he is right to say, of course, that we need to make sure that all our public estate makes a contribution to that target as well. He will probably have noted, when the First Minister and the Minister for Climate Change made their announcements in the week before COP, that part of the objective there is to understand better the state of play and the state of condition for the education stock across Wales, and to understand in detail what needs to be done in order to make sure, as far as we can, that they make their contribution as well to our net-zero targets. It is not straightforward, it is certainly not short term, and it will have a significant funding challenge attached to it, because many of the new technologies require not simply the installation of an air-source heat pump, for example, but significant insulation challenges, and also distribution challenges. So, that work will be commencing with our partners, and then we will have a better understanding of what we need to do in order to take forward our ambition right across the education stock.