Item 5 is the next item, and it's the debate on the petition on new laws to protect rare red squirrels from habitat loss, which causes population decline. I call on the Chair of the Petitions Committee, Jack Sargeant.

Motion NDM7860 Jack Sargeant

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the petition P-06-1208 'New laws to protect rare red squirrels from habitat loss which causes population decline’ which received 10,553 signatures.

Motion moved.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. On behalf of the Petitions Committee, thank you for the opportunity to introduce this important debate.

This petition was introduced by Craig Shuttleworth in June and reached 10,000 signatures before the end of July. Llywydd, that tells me that a lot of people in Wales, and across the world, love red squirrels. And while it isn't the focus of today’s debate, I do wish to mention petition P-06-1225, 'Make Natural Resources Wales undertake and publish annual wildlife surveys before felling woodland'. This raises wider issues about how we can protect woodland habitats for all the creatures that live there.

The red squirrel was once common throughout the UK, but they have disappeared from many areas. You can however still see them in three main areas of Wales: on Anglesey, in the Clocaenog Forest in north Wales, and in Clywedog in mid Wales. According to the Wildlife Trusts, in about 150 years red squirrels have declined from around 3.5 million to 140,000 in the UK. The main threat to the species has come from the introduction of the grey squirrel, brought over from North America in the 1870s. A larger, faster-breeding squirrel, it competes for sources of food, making life harder for the red squirrel. It can also carry squirrel pox virus, also known as parapox, which is harmless to grey squirrels, but fatal to red squirrels. Llywydd, red squirrels are also threatened by domestic cats and dogs, roads and habitat losses and fragmentation. In 2020, the Mammal Society released an official red list for British mammals, highlighting the species most at risk. The red squirrel is classified as 'endangered' and is one of the 19 species considered at risk of extinction in Britain. At an international level, it is on the International Union for Conservation of Nature's red list of threatened species.

Red squirrels are a priority species under the UK post-2010 biodiversity framework. They are protected under Schedules 5 and 6 to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, as amended. Under the Act, it is an offence to kill, injure or take a red squirrel, or to damage, destroy or obstruct access to a drey or any other structure or place that a red squirrel uses for shelter or protection. It is also an offence to disturb a red squirrel when it is occupying a structure or place for protection. This protection does not apply to areas where red squirrels only feed. Activities for social, economic and environmental reasons that might affect red squirrels can be licensed.

The petition we are debating today is calling on the Government to go further than the protections that already exist. It is asking this Senedd to do more to protect red squirrels. Specifically, it is asking that habitat loss be included in the consideration of felling licences, and that state-owned forests, which don’t require a licence, should have to annually assess the cumulative impact of felling on the red squirrel population. We know that this Government puts climate change and nature at the heart of its decision making. Earlier this year, in June 2021, this Senedd declared a nature emergency. So the question is, today. about that nature emergency: how can we protect the populations of red squirrels we have? But even further, how can we reverse the historic decline?

Llywydd, I very much look forward to the Minister's response this afternoon. I look forward to Members' contributions across the Chamber, and I'm very much looking forward to the contribution from the Senedd's own very red squirrel—the bright and bushy-tailed Darren Millar. Diolch yn fawr.

I couldn't have called him better. Darren Millar. [Laughter.]

Diolch, Llywydd. And as the red squirrel species champion in the Senedd, I'm absolutely delighted to see that this debate has been brought forward by the Petitions Committee. And before I go any further, I must declare an interest in this debate as the honorary member of the Red Squirrels Trust Wales and indeed a member of the Clocaenog Red Squirrels Trust as well. And I want to pay tribute to the incredible work of the lead petitioner, Dr Craig Shuttleworth, for organising the petition, and the incredible work that he does, day in, day out, in leading red squirrel conservation efforts across the country. He's not alone, of course—there are the Red Squirrels Trust, the Clocaenog Red Squirrels Trust, the Welsh Mountain Zoo and a whole army of others, including many volunteers, who give their time, effort and resources fighting for these super furry animals.

Since being appointed as the red squirrel champion back in 2016, it's been an absolute thrill to get to know more about this unique and iconic species and to visit many of the projects across Wales and to learn about the efforts being made to boost the fortunes of the red squirrel population and to revive it. For over 10,000 years, the red squirrel population was the dominant population here in Wales of squirrels. And not only that, it populated the vast majority of the British Isles. But we know from what has already been shared today that that population dwindled significantly, and as late as the 1990s there were just a few hundred red squirrels scattered across Wales in small population pockets, which were at risk. But it was at that time, before the turn of the millennium, that heroic conservation efforts to revive the species began. And thanks to these efforts, I'm proud to say that in my own constituency the Clocaenog forest now has a sustainable small, but growing red squirrel population. In mid Wales, the Vincent Wildlife Trust released pine martens, a predator to grey squirrels, and that project has, so far, also proved successful in boosting the population numbers there.

But the biggest triumph, in my opinion, for any conservation effort of any animal in Wales, has been on the island of Anglesey. Because, thanks to its status as an island, an ambitious plan to remove grey squirrels was hatched, and, by 2015, it was announced that Anglesey was a grey squirrel-free zone. But all these efforts, they've been undermined, and they've been undermined due to outdated forestry legislation, which pays no regard to at-risk wildlife populations. How can it be that while it's illegal to kill or injure a red squirrel or disturb a red squirrel in its drey or nest—how can it be that a forest containing them is not protected and can be chopped down? Yet that, unfortunately, is the current state of affairs, as far as the law is concerned, here in Wales. Because while a felling licence is required to harvest timber or fell trees in private woodland in Wales, it's a scandal that such licences cannot be refused if they cause habitat loss and red squirrel population decline. And, of course, Government-owned forests, they do not require a licence, but they are managed under 10-year plans. Regrettably, there is no obligation whatsoever to update or refresh those plans to take note of the actual squirrel population on an annual basis and where it's nesting within those forests. And as a result of that, we now face an incredible challenge of seeing in parts of Wales trees being felled, or planned to be felled, which could result in the setting back of these enormous conservation efforts that we've seen.

And let's give you an example of how the current arrangements are failing in that regard: Pentraeth forest on Ynys Môn. And I know that Rhun ap Iorwerth will be familiar with this challenge. It is a red squirrel stronghold—one of the few strongholds in Wales. Yet Natural Resources Wales has given permission for a felling operation that is going to be based on the outdated data on the local squirrel population, which is over 10 years old, and, worse still, it's going to allow the felling operation to take place during the red squirrel breeding season. So, while a new generation of this endangered species are settling down into their nests, the trees, which hold those nests, will be chopped down. And this is not a small area of woodland being torn down; it's 17 acres—6,500 tonnes of timber—worth of prime red squirrel habitat that is going to be destroyed. And we must remember that this is at a time when, quite rightly, the Welsh Government is decrying global deforestation and encouraging every household in Wales to plant a tree. So, we can't allow this situation to persist. We've got to take action now if we're going to see this species continue to rebound.

Yes, we need to address the shortcomings of the Forestry Act 1967. That work has already been done in Scotland, so we have a template that we can pick up and apply here in Wales. We need a clear timescale for that work to be achieved. And I'm pleased very much that the Welsh Government has started the work on planning for that legislation to change. But we also need some work to be done on ensuring that these 10-year plans are updated on a much more frequent basis so that we can protect the wildlife populations—not just the red squirrel, but other important wildlife species as well—in forests that are state-owned and state-run across the country.

So, on behalf of this small, but incredibly super furry animal, I want to encourage everybody to back the petition that's called for these changes to be made today, and I look forward to hearing further contributions. 

The only red squirrel I've ever seen was on Ynys Môn, and therefore I call Rhun ap Iorwerth. 

Thank you very much, Llywydd. I will also declare that I am an honorary member of the Red Squirrels Trust Wales, and I am very proud to be a Member representing an island who are, as a whole, champions for this particular creature. It was around a year ago when I was out running with my wife less than a mile from my home and a red squirrel jumped from the hedge and sped down the road ahead of us—this flash of a red tail bounding down the road. And it ran ahead of us for some good 50 yards, running with us indeed before disappearing back into the hedge. And we were enchanted, because although I've seen a number of squirrels over the years, this was the first time that I'd seen the red squirrel on my own doorstep. And I recall as a young boy growing up on the island, the great pride that this wonderful creature had chosen to make its home on Ynys Môn. 

But it was under threat, under threat from grey squirrels, as we've heard, and by the mid-1990s it was almost entirely extinct. And when the recovery work started in growing the red squirrel population again, then our pride just grew even further. It brings economic benefits now too, of course. I know of colleagues from this Senedd who have travelled to Anglesey with the sole purpose of seeing a red squirrel. But the greatest value, of course, and I'm sure we could all agree on this, is in the conservation itself, as we heard from the Chair of the Petitions Committee, and the contribution of a healthy red squirrel population to the biodiversity of the island and the biodiversity of the whole of Wales. And now, two thirds of all Welsh red squirrels are on Anglesey once again. 

But that didn't happen by accident, and it's very, very important to bear that in mind, and we should give real thanks for the tireless work of conservationists and volunteers on a local level. We've heard the name of Craig Shuttleworth; I could name Raj Jones, and all the work that she has done over the years in ensuring that signs appeared over the island—the red squirrel forest signs—which was a literal sign that the creature was back. And thank goodness, the red squirrel is safeguarded by legislation. It's an offence to destroy dreys, but there is no safeguard for the woodland that they occupy. The squirrel is protected, but its habitat is not. And that's what this petition seeks to remedy.

And I welcome the petition and what the petitioners are calling for—over 10,000 of them; 1,700 of them from my own constituency. They want to change the licensing system, which would enable us to place conditions before allowing tree felling, so, conditions not to fell during breeding seasons, for example. At the moment, tree felling can happen even without a survey of how many squirrel nests there are. And we see that happening far too often in my own constituency. Why, after all of the work in helping the population to recover, would we want the habitat to be under threat? I've had constituents contact me about plans by Natural Resources Wales to clear fell forestry, or to allow the clear felling of forestry, on several sites on Ynys Môn—Newborough, Pentraeth, as we've heard, Mynydd Bodafon, habitats we know are treasures in terms of the red squirrel population. People are concerned about Penrhos in Holyhead, concerned that not enough coverage is given to safeguarding that habitat. 

Scotland's already changed legislation. The Nature Conservation (Scotland) Act 2004 placed a clause in the Forestry Act 1967 that specifically allows the rejection of tree felling permits or attaches conditions to them—

'for the purpose of conserving or enhancing the flora, fauna or geological or physiographical features, or the natural beauty or amenity, of any land.'

There is no such clause added to Welsh legislation, and it is time for us to remedy that. And beyond legislation, I have to say that it's a real concern of mine that there is a lack of robust dialogue between Natural Resources Wales and conservation organisations. It's something that I've raised time and time again. Partnership has to be part of the solution in safeguarding the squirrel. 

To conclude, I look forward to hearing from the Minister in her response to this debate. I am still awaiting a response to correspondence to the Minister for Climate Change on this issue from July and October of this year. I and the 10,000 and more people who have signed this petition would be grateful to hear whether she is as enthusiastic as we are in terms of safeguarding this rare and wonderful creature.

Thank you to the Petitions Committee for bringing forward this important petition today, and thank you to Jack Sargeant for opening the debate. The petition has highlighted an important opportunity for us here in Wales to progress action to protect our wildlife. We are facing a nature crisis as well as a climate emergency, and we must take seriously the loss of biodiversity that will occur if actions to protect nature species, like the red squirrel, isn't taken.

As Jack has highlighted, one of the biggest threats to red squirrels is habitat loss and fragmentation, and it is here that the Welsh Government can act. In Scotland, felling licences can be refused or granted to enhance or conserve wildlife, thanks to a change in the law, demonstrating a commitment to species protection. Unfortunately, no such protections currently exist here in Wales.

I have also been contacted by residents in Anglesey concerned about the planned development at Penrhos. The nature reserve is an important habitat for red squirrels, as well as an oasis for local residents to enjoy. The development will see 27 acres of trees felled, which will have a serious impact on the squirrels' habitat, removing much of their dreys and runs. I firmly believe that the impact a project will have on local wildlife should be considered when receiving approval, whether this be the felling of trees as part of woodland management or redevelopment like that in Penrhos. So, I welcome this petition that was put forward by Craig Shuttleworth, and hope that, going forward, regulations will be put in place so that biodiversity and species protection will be treated as a priority throughout Wales.

I'd like to thank those who've brought this petition forward, and I want to put on record my thanks, really, to my colleague Darren Millar who has been a sterling champion of the red squirrels. It's important that we, as champions—I know Mark Isherwood recently has been acknowledged for the work he does on curlews—it's important that we take our role seriously and, for the record, I am the champion of the harbour porpoise in Wales.

According to 'The State of Mammals in Wales' report, although there has been a marked decline in the distribution of red squirrels since the 1995 review, the population in Wales currently appears to be stable, and may even be locally expanding. However, it can remain the case that the prospects could be poor. The population of 9,200 is on a downtrend trend. There are four distinct areas in Wales where these adorable characters can be found: Ynys Môn, between Powys and Ceredigion, and Clocaenog forest. Constituents in the Conwy valley in my constituency recall seeing red squirrels there some decades ago; today, they would have to travel over 20 miles for a chance to witness another in the wild. So, wouldn't it be fantastic if the Welsh Government could develop an action plan to link the populations between Clocaenog and Ynys Môn? 

I would be pleased to learn whether the periodic reviews of focal sites have been undertaken since the commitment in the 2018 'Red Squirrel Conservation Plan for Wales', but it remains the case that greys number around 300,000—over 30 times more than the reds. And I have to confess, as an avid bird feeder, that I have three naughty squirrels that come and they do really quite well at my home on my bird tables. With the estimated cost of greys' eradication in Wales being as much as £76 million, the task could appear to be unachievable. However, the 'Grey Squirrel Management Action Plan for Wales' does refer to humane lethal management options. I would be pleased if the Minister could actually update us on that. 

The petition is also right to focus our attention on forest management. In fact, the 'Red Squirrel Conservation Plan for Wales' states that

'Conservation action to protect red squirrels on mainland sites needs to focus on ensuring suitable habitat is present'.

In 2018, Natural Resources Wales's forest planning system was noted as a constraint. Three years on, NRW continue to be a barrier to progress. This organisation must explain why it has spent nothing on monitoring red squirrels in 10 years. This Senedd could undertake a review of the requirements for a felling licence, so to ensure that fair consideration is given to biodiversity and habitat loss. And, Minister, you could immediately rectify the fact that annual assessments of the cumulative impact of felling are not undertaken for state-owned forests. Thank you. Diolch.

From the Gruffalo's friend to Beatrix Potter's Squirrel Nutkin, the red squirrel, the UK's only native squirrel species, has been a much loved part of the UK countryside for thousands of years. The number of them has sadly dwindled over the last decades for many reasons, the main being the introduction of the non-native grey squirrel. Unfortunately, grey squirrels far outnumber red squirrels in Rhondda and the wider south Wales area. I actually have some problems of my own with grey squirrels in my garden, who seem to think it's funny to steal not just the birdseed, but the actual birdfeeders too. But, in all seriousness, I know just how important it is that we not only maintain the number of red squirrels in mid and north Wales, but we ensure we see numbers begin to rise again. The Welsh Government are taking action with the red squirrel conservation plan and the grey squirrel management action plan, but these could prove futile if changes are not made to felling licence criteria, as rightly pointed out by the petitioner.

For me, today's debate highlights two very important issues, with the first being unintentional consequences as a result of tree felling. We experienced devastating flooding in Rhondda last year, following the tree felling above Pentre. The trees had to be felled as they were diseased, but hundreds of homes and businesses were flooded as a consequence. Much like the petition states,

'Although a felling licence is required to fell woodland, these licences cannot be refused even if they cause habitat loss and red squirrel population decline.'

We must ensure that, in future, no unintended consequences occur as a result of tree felling, and this must mean consideration of habitat and biodiversity loss leading to population decline.

The second issue is the loss of endangered and threatened species. I know that many argue we should just let nature take its course, but I respectfully disagree, especially those with a great public image like the red squirrel. Bringing attention to their struggle will lead to wider interest and an understanding of how biodiversity and population loss affect us all. Where we can step into protect these species, we should. Thank you to the petitioner for raising this extremely important issue.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

I call on the Minister for Climate Change, Julie James.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I too am very grateful to the petitioner and also to Jack Sargeant, the Chair of the Petitions Committee, for bringing forward this important issue, which, as he and many others said, relates not only to the protection for red squirrels, but also for other wildlife during felling operations. And it is indeed very important that we take steps to maintain and enhance species of principal importance, and this is just one of a number of actions set out in 'The Nature Recovery Action Plan for Wales 2020-21' to help address the nature emergency in Wales. 

I am all too acutely aware of the limitations of the Forestry Act and the nature of conditions that Natural Resources Wales can apply under a felling licence. These limitations, as many Members have pointed out, can result in a disjoint between the Forestry Act and other environmental legislation, leading to gaps in the protection of wildlife. While NRW have taken steps to address this through advisory letters or long-term forestry management plans for landowners, these absolutely do not fully address the issue, as a number of Members have pointed out.

That's why we've committed to including provisions in the agriculture Bill amending the Forestry Act to allow conditions to be added to felling licences. We will also include provisions to amend, suspend or revoke felling licences after they have been granted. These amendments will help provide better protection for wildlife, for example, in relation to the exemption under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and provide better join-up between forestry and other environmental regulations. The relevant legislation to amend the Forestry Act will be brought forward very shortly.

'The UK Forestry Standard' states that

'woodlands should be managed in a way that conserves or enhances biodiversity' and reflected in forest management plans. Each part of our Welsh Government woodland estate has a 10-year forest resource plan, which is a requirement for forest certification, and plans do include details of any protected species or habitats that could be affected by management operations, and site surveys are undertaken by NRW in the development of the plans, and measures to mitigate impacts are included, for example, in retaining areas of habitat. Consideration is also given to the habitat needs of species at a landscape scale. That process involves consultation with external stakeholders, such as the red squirrel groups. Plans are also placed on NRW's public register to enable further comments—

Will the Minister take an intervention?

Yes, certainly.

I'm very grateful to you for outlining how the plans are arrived at, and you have said that there's consultation and engagement with stakeholders on the development of those plans, but, because that's every 10 years, it doesn't take account of the change in the population and the impact elsewhere. I noticed also you referred to the fact that you're going to bring forward legislative change, which obviously I very much welcome, but you didn't specify a timescale, you just said 'shortly'. How long is 'shortly'?

I'm just coming on to the 10 year point. I'm not going to be drawn on 'shortly', because we're in negotiation about Plenary time for it, but very shortly—we are aware of the urgency of it.

So, as I was saying, although not legally required, NRW seek approval from their felling licence team to ensure their plans conform to the UK forestry standard. Further site surveys are undertaken before felling operations commence and, if necessary, further mitigation measures can be given to the contractor. 

At this point in time, I wanted to say that we've had a number of conversations with NRW since we took office in May, myself and my colleague Lee Waters. I'm not aware, Rhun, of letters outstanding to yourself, so if you'd like to draw my attention back to them I'd be grateful, because as far as I'm aware I don't have a backlog. Something's gone wrong there, so if you could draw my attention to them I'd be grateful. 

One of the considerations that we are discussing is how close to the actual felling operation a resurvey of the site for differing habitat conditions from the original survey should be, and what factors they have to take into account in order to trigger that. You wouldn't want to do that for every one, but there will be factors to take into account. So, just to say that we're having conversations along those lines.

One of the take-homes from COP26 for us was a conversation with other what are called subnational UN states such as Quebec on changes to forestry practice where clear felling no longer takes place and canopy cover is maintained at all times, even in productive sustainable timber forests. We're very keen that NRW shift to that method of production as fast as we can. That can't be done overnight. I can't make that happen tomorrow morning. And there are lots of other conditions that pertain across Welsh woodlands, including needing to take measures to stop the spread of disease. We still have monocultural pine forests and so on. So, it won't be overnight, but we're very aware of the need to do that. Indeed, we're very plugged in to the global effort to have continuous canopy cover for habitat protection, whilst having a productive timber industry. So, we're very definitely on the case of doing that. 

We also have a consideration of the cumulative impact of felling on habitat as part of the felling licence regime. This is where we don't just consider what happens if we fell this stand of trees without considering what will happen to pressure on that stand of trees over there, which may still be there but will have dislocated wildlife arriving at it. I was very keen, during the curlew conservation plan launch, to engage with people looking to protect grassland areas about what happens to edge-of-grassland areas with forest in them if felling takes place elsewhere in the habitat and the kinds of predators that are moved across that then predate on the grassland.

We all know this, Deputy Presiding Officer, but this is a very complex ecosystem we're talking about. It's not just this bit, it all interacts. So, we're very keen that NRW takes account of those cumulative impacts and account of the needs of species in relation to existing and new applications for felling licenses, as well as their own internal forest resource plans. To assist in that process, we've now got a formal data-sharing agreement with local records centres across Wales to update their own GIS database with new survey data. We've also issued a contract to monitor and assess red squirrel populations on Anglesey, which is due to complete in spring 2022. Red squirrels are already monitored at the other two focal sites that Members have mentioned, in Clocaenog and in mid Wales.

If we are to fully benefit from the contribution our woodlands can make to both the nature and climate emergencies, we do need to plant and manage more trees. We will need to strike the right balance in doing this to enable effective woodland management and planting that meets our needs for habitat improvement and biodiversity, as well as providing timber for low-carbon housing, for example. 

Deputy Presiding Officer, in closing, we absolutely recognise the need for clear guidance on how and when the new powers arising from amendments to the Forestry Act will be used. NRW will be publishing draft guidance ahead of the legislation very shortly. Diolch.

I call on Jack Sargeant to reply to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr, Deputy Presiding Officer. I want to thank Craig Shuttleworth and all the signatories of this petition for putting this topic on the agenda today. I think it was clear from the contributions made by all Members that there is a clear cross-party consensus, and from the Minister's response, not only to why we do need to act to protect red squirrels, but also what action needs to be taken. We heard from Members across the Chamber, including my colleague Carolyn Thomas, my colleague Rhun ap Iorwerth, and also my colleague and super furry animal from Clwyd West, about legislation and changes to legislation. I welcome the Minister's response to those point and the sense of urgency and recognition of urgency, and that the time to act is now. So, we will be keeping a close eye on those amendments to legislation and what is being brought forward by the Welsh Government. But, as many people have said as well, we do want to thank all the volunteers that are out there across Wales working to protect the species already—the Mid Wales Red Squirrel Partnership and the Red Squirrels Trust Wales to name a few. But thanks to all those others out there as well. 

Deputy Presiding Officer, as Wales embarks on a plan to plant more trees and to create a national forest for Wales, there are reasons to be hopeful, I think, for the future. This Parliament will soon be closing its doors for its short winter hibernation, so I do hope today this debate has stoked up a sufficient supply of ideas and showcased the passion of Members right across the Senedd Chamber, of all political colours, so that we can return in the new year committed to making Wales a place where the red squirrel can not only survive but strengthen their numbers so that we no longer consider the red squirrel an endangered species in Wales. And, again, I'd like to thank the Minister, in finally closing this debate, for her sense of urgency and recognition of the work that needs to be done. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

The proposal is to note the petition. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.