Item 5 is the statement by the Minister for Economy on supporting the creation of a community bank for Wales. I call on the Minister, Vaughan Gething.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. The UK has one of the least diverse retail banking systems in Europe. It is dominated by a small number of very large banks. These banks operate according to a traditional shareholder value business model that seeks to maximise profits for their owners. Retail high street banks, as we know, are retreating from many of our high streets at an ever-increasing and alarming pace. According to Office for National Statistics data, the number of bank branches in the UK has fallen by 4,390, or 39 per cent, between 2012 and 2021. The consumer magazine Which? estimates that by the end of 2022 only 277 bank and building society branches will remain in Wales.

Our programme for government commitment to support the creation of a community bank for Wales seeks to address this market failure in relation to the gap in provision, effectiveness and access to quality banking services in Wales. Our vision for the community bank for Wales is one that is based on the mutual model, owned by, and run for, the benefit of its members rather than the maximisation of profit for shareholders. It will be a modern, full-service community bank, headquartered in Wales. It will provide access to bilingual products and services through a range of channels including digital, online and in-branch. The bank will facilitate local investment and enhance community wealth building, recirculating savings into loans and preventing capital drain. It will provide a positive impact on communities and high streets, improving access to everyday banking services for all citizens regardless of income or wealth, as well as, of course, small businesses across the whole of Wales.

As a Government, we are however alert to the significant challenges of establishing a community bank. Whilst there are a number of community banks in development across the UK, no community bank has yet been established. Start-up co-operative and mutual banks face increased challenges compared to their shareholder-model banking counterparts. This is particularly the case in respect of securing development and regulatory capital, which make entry and organic growth difficult. In addition, banking sector legislative and regulatory competencies are reserved matters. We are therefore reliant on the alignment and ambition of private sector firms who share our vision and ethos in order to establish and operate a community bank for Wales. 

Since our work to support the creation of a community bank for Wales was first explored, traditional high-street banks have further accelerated their retreat from our high streets. Now more than ever, an increasing number of communities across Wales are left without physical access to what we consider should be an essential public service. The impact of this retreat is not universal, with rural communities and those individuals and businesses across Wales who are more reliant upon cash and face-to-face relationship banking being hit the hardest.

Despite the many high-profile community campaigns supported by members across the political colouring of the Senedd, traditional banks have continued to close branches. I welcome the continued cross-party support for the creation of a community bank for Wales and acknowledge that Members' questions are understandably increasingly focused on the delivery timescales, branch roll-out plans, and products and services to be offered by the community bank. Those questions reflect the needs and concerns of communities in Members' constituencies across the breadth of Wales.

Over the past two years the Welsh Government has supported exploratory work undertaken by Cambria Cydfuddiannol Ltd, a co-operative society established to explore the creation of Banc Cambria as the community bank for Wales. This work has been crucial in informing the delivery strategy of Banc Cambria, and consequently the development of its relationship with an existing financial institution. What I am announcing today reaffirms our belief that this approach has a greater potential to deliver a viable and sustainable community bank. This approach also aligns with the recommendations made in the 'Access to Banking' report by the Senedd’s Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee in October 2019. We believe that this approach supports collaboration across the sector, reduces the risks and minimises the costs to the public purse, and increases the pace at which the development and safe launch of Banc Cambria can be delivered.

Last week, the First Minister, the Minister for Social Justice and I met with the teams behind Banc Cambria to discuss the progress made, next steps and areas where Welsh Government support can best be deployed to enhance the pace of development and delivery. I am delighted to update and inform Members, and welcome today’s announcement from the Monmouthshire Building Society stating its intent to develop its approach to delivering a community bank in Wales. Delivery of a community bank is a good fit for the Welsh mutual that is headquartered in Newport. They've been serving and supporting members and communities across south and west Wales to save and flourish for over 150 years. As a mutual, they are already a purpose-led organisation, providing communities with access to financial help and support in locations that are convenient for them.

Whilst there is still much work to be done, with key milestones and further decision points ahead for both the Welsh Government, the society and Cambria Cydfuddiannol, we remain committed to providing all appropriate and necessary support in order to help accelerate the establishment and roll-out of Banc Cambria across Wales. It is now appropriate for the Monmouthshire Building Society to lead on the communications and update on the project as it progresses. We acknowledge and agree that the development of robust, secure and compliant systems are paramount for the society, its existing members and future members of Banc Cambria. I will meet the society and Cambria Cydfuddiannol Ltd regularly to keep abreast of progress and understand where our support can add most value. I will, of course, update Members as appropriate following key decision points. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Conservative spokesperson, Mark Isherwood.

I thank the Minister for his statement. I'm also grateful to the team at Banc Cambria for the time they've given in recent months to keeping myself and colleagues updated on the development of a community bank for Wales. Having previously worked in the mutual building society sector for more than two decades, I particularly welcome the fact that the bank's partnership with Monmouthshire Building Society has been made public today, thereby allowing the operational requirements to ensure delivery to be put in place.

Speaking here in 2010, I raised with the then First Minister the risk management and capital adequacy requirements and regulation a new bank would have to comply with, which an established bank or building society partner would not. In 2013, Welsh Conservatives called for the establishment of Invest Wales, a network of regional investment banks embedded in local communities, to lend to small business and provide advice and support based on this partnership model. In 2017, I led a debate on banking services here, which called on the Welsh Government to examine the not-for-profit community banking model then being developed in Wales by Responsible Finance, which proposed working with credit unions where credit unions can't, and providing finance and support for people, businesses and social enterprises that cannot access finance from high street banks. 

In response to the fifth Assembly's Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee, the Federation of Small Businesses questioned whether the community bank solution overlaps with other things that other instruments and institutions that we already have in place in Wales could be actually in a better place to do. And so, given that this is a commercial investment for the Welsh Government, it is crucial that the Welsh Government performs due diligence and rigorous analysis of the business plan for a community bank prior to further investment. Therefore, Minister, what processes have been followed and what due diligence has taken place to date to provide assurance for the people of Wales before the scheme progresses?

Of course, when performing due diligence, it's also vital that the Welsh Government considers the impact that a community bank will have on the credit union sector. The Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee report in 2019 made it clear that credit unions have some very serious concerns about the impact that a community bank could have on them. Indeed, the chief executive of Cardiff & Vale Credit Union wrote on behalf of a group of 11 Welsh credit unions to highlight the fact that Banc Cambria's intention to provide personal loans on a co-operative model basis would be in direct competition with credit unions, and that it would directly threaten the future sustainability of the credit union network in Wales. And so, in light of these concerns, what action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that the sustainability of credit unions is not threatened by the development of a community bank? And how will the Welsh Government work with credit unions that are keen to work with them but concerned to ensure that Banc Cambria takes neither their business nor their funding? Given the Post Office partnership with UK banks, Banc Cambria could also have an impact on post office services. What assessment has the Minister therefore made of the effects of Banc Cambria on the post office sector? And what discussions has he had with the Post Office about establishing a community bank in Wales?

The creation of a community bank could have a transformative impact on local communities, particularly rural communities that have lost the presence of a bank on their high street. It's reassuring that Banc Cambria has previously said that rural communities are at the heart of what they're trying to do. Banc Cambria has made it clear that it aims to open at least one branch where the customer base is evidenced as suffering particularly badly from financial exclusion. And the First Minister has already spoken of locating a branch in Buckley, Flintshire. How, therefore, will the locations of the branches be decided, and what assurances can you provide that financially excluded rural communities will be at the top of the priority list? And what assurances can you give us that the Welsh Government has the capacity to take this model forward into all parts of Wales, should it prove, as we hope, to be successful?

It's vital that we have the right skills base to support the sector. In response to the fifth Assembly's Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee, the Community Savings Bank Association said that finding people who have the right balance of skills and ethical motivation for wanting to create something in Wales would be harder than finding the money to support a community bank.

Mark, you must conclude now.

Therefore, Minister, what work is being done to identify and deliver the skills needed to support the model for the future? And finally, how is access to the branches for disabled people with both visible and hidden impairments being designed in?

Thank you for the extensive series of questions. If I can start off by saying that I think today is a really big and important day: to have an established financial institution confirming in public that it is looking to develop the proposal in partnership and will be the established institution to take matters forward is a really positive step forward. And as I said in my opening, no community bank of this scale or model has yet been established anywhere in the UK. So, this is a novel policy area where Wales is taking a lead, and I'm really pleased that we have got a mutual financial institution that is ready and prepared to partner with us, in a manner that should be not just to deliver greater community banking services, but will probably end up being transformative for the Monmouthshire Building Society itself. So, this is a really positive day, and many of the questions that Mark Isherwood has asked are questions that we have already had discussions about and I expect we will get more on as we move forward, because—. Your points about, 'Does the community bank overlap with other services?'—well, actually, we're looking to support and establish a community bank because of the flight of traditional banking services from many communities. I know this is a matter that, as I said in my opening, is supported by Members from across the political divide within the Senedd, because all of us have experience of traditional banking services disappearing from communities we represent. It's the same for Members who represent largely urban constituencies, as well as those that are largely rural. So, there is a real challenge here, rather than a problem of there being an overlap, as a broad picture.

But when it comes to how those partnerships will work, including, for example, the partnerships we'd expect to see with the credit union movement, those are things we expect to see more detail on in both an investment proposal, but also there is work that has already been undertaken by Banc Cambria because, of course, they are part of the co-op and mutuals movement, so they have established relationships with a range of credit unions. But it is entirely reasonable for some credit unions to question how it will affect them and their business and not end up being something that squeezes out competition where services are already provided, rather than providing services into communities that we recognise are under-served at present.

On your question about Welsh Government due diligence, we and any other investor will certainly undertake due diligence following an investment proposal. And we're at the point now where Monmouthshire have confirmed that they're going to move to do that, so I will expect from them a proper investment proposal for us to look at, to scrutinise, and they will also, of course, need to assure their own regulator about the proposals that they are looking to make and what it means for their current members, as well as for future ones too. And again, this goes back to one of the points you made in your list of examples, where you've raised similar issues, on the fact that having an established institution should actually mean that we're able to launch a community bank at a greater pace than if we had otherwise tried to start afresh.

I note your points about the Post Office, and, of course, at one point, there was the possibility of a properly established postal bank—those are matters that are in the hands of the UK Government, and, of course, the Post Office has had for some years an established tie-in with the Bank of Ireland. So, again, we're looking at the landscape of where services exist and looking at how we can add to what exists rather than compete with established services that are already providing a decent service to communities across the country. 

On, I think, your broader points, I just want to register this about credit unions: we do expect there to be agency or partnership agreements in place. You wouldn't expect those all to be established with today's announcement, but our expectation is that this will genuinely add to the banking and financial services that are available in many of our communities, and I do believe that this is a really positive step forward. I think the significant detail that you're looking for in many of your questions can only be answered when we get into greater detail in the proposals to be brought forward, including, of course, how the new Banc Cambria establishment expects to deliver branches and the criteria that it will use for where it would wish to establish those in the future. But I look forward to updating Mr Isherwood and other Members over the coming months. 

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. As I'm sure many Members will raise, this statement is, indeed, timely; it almost feels like a daily news story these days that bank branches are shutting up shop in our towns and villages across Wales. Between 2015 and 2019, Wales lost over two fifths of its bank branches—that's 239 branches altogether. In my region of South Wales West, for example, in my home constituency of Ogmore, there's just one bank branch left in the whole constituency and that's in Maesteg.

It's important, I think, to also remember that we aren't just talking about bank branches, we're also talking about ATMs, as well, closing, meaning that trends towards digital banking and a cashless society are beginning to exclude some groups financially, which, of course, will be more acute in rural areas. The reality is that actions taken by the commercial banking sector will likely worsen regional inequality, and that's why Plaid Cymru welcomes the development of Banc Cambria and, in particular, welcomes the fact that Wales will be leading the way in the UK by having the first community bank, a style of bank that is commonplace across the globe. And I would encourage Members to read about how commonplace community banks are in the United States. And, of course, with Banc Cambria, the money invested will be invested in Wales in the interests of those who call Wales home, meaning that there could be huge potential for economic development in some of our more deprived areas.

It's important that Banc Cambria, as I believe Mark Isherwood has already alluded do, is seen as a bank for the whole of Wales, especially when a lot of the high-street banks seem to be in the process of abandoning Wales. So, I was wondering if the Minister could give any indication as to where Banc Cambria will be looking to establish its initial wave of bank branches, as well as where Banc Cambria may be headquartered. I heard Newport mentioned in the statement; it's important, I think, that it's headquartered outside of Cardiff, but, as a Pencoed boy, I'll take this opportunity to pitch and say I wouldn't mind seeing a branch opened in Pencoed, or for Banc Cambria to even be headquartered there. But it's important, of course, that Banc Cambria is present in communities across Wales, from border communities to the Valleys, to y fro Gymraeg and to our seaside towns.

Of course, one consistent issue that we find with banks in Wales is that there is a lack of ability, or an inability, to bank through the medium of Welsh. We've heard of multiple stories—a recent one with HSBC—where Welsh language communities have been let down in this regard. I welcome, as the Minister highlighted in his statement, that services will be available bilingually. But could the Minister give any indication as to whether or not all of Banc Cambria's services will be bilingual, including in-branch services as well as online banking?

Finally, six months ago, I asked the Minister for Social Justice if the Welsh Government had given any consideration as to how we could use the Banc Cambria community-based model for other community-led businesses, perhaps in energy or steel, for example, and what support the Government is providing for this. The Minister at the time seemed open to the idea, but wished to focus on establishing Banc Cambria first, which is completely understandable. But now that there has been some movement in the development of Banc Cambria, and the community banking portfolio has been moved to your portfolio, Minister, has any more thought been given to how this model could be utilised elsewhere in the Welsh economy?

Thank you for the questions and comments. I agree with your points about the challenge of it's not just about branch services, but about access to cash services as well—not just ATMs but, in particular, free-to-use ATMS as well. Part of the drive behind this is a recognition that the flight of traditional branches and cash services does mean that there is an increasing divide between those with digital skills, in particular mobile banking, but also those who require cash to go about their normal day-to-day business. So, there's a challenge here, in terms of not acting and what we would otherwise be left with.

I'm proud of the work that we have done successfully over a period of time, with support from a number of parties, on trying to provide financial services through credit unions in particular as well. But I do think that Banc Cambria will fill a particular gap that still exists, and I'm pleased to have the broad support of Plaid Cymru in doing so.

I'd expect more detailed plans for branches to come with that investment proposal, but Banc Cambria indicate that they expect to get up to about 30 branches over their first decade in operation. Now, it is not a fair test to say that Banc Cambria should expect to make up all of the branches that have closed by traditional and long-established branches, and to be able to do so within a short period of time. We're still looking at something that, as I say, is a novel policy intervention, to be able to create a new community bank. And you're right to point out that other parts of the world have a very different network, and that we have, as I said in my opening, not a very diverse banking sector at all. The newer challenger banks that have come along tend to be online banks. So, there's still a gap that we believe Banc Cambria can help to fill.

That detailed investment proposal, when it comes, it won't just be due diligence. We want to look at how they're looking and to set out a plan for how they'll go through where they'd want to establish branches and services. So, I do appreciate that, many of the questions that will come today, I won't be able to give you definitive answers, but to be able to indicate that they do expect to establish new branches over the first decade. They expect to be able to set out more about the products and services that they'll provide. The investment proposal will help to detail and set that out.

The fact that Monmouthshire are doing this already means that we have an institution that is headquartered in Wales. It's headquartered in Newport, and, without looking at the two constituency Members for the city of Newport, I'd have thought that they would want to see Banc Cambria remain established and headquartered within that city. I'm not looking to try to have regions arguing with one another, but the point is that we have an established financial institution that is headquartered and rooted in Wales and has been for a century and a half. That's a good thing, in terms of the sort of fit that we're looking for for someone that is committed to community banking services.

That doesn't mean, of course, that they won't be involved in supporting businesses. I think that they will—in particular, smaller businesses. The challenge will be, if we're looking at larger economic units, about where the capital for that will come. So, it's not that I would say that they're not allowed and won't be permitted to do that; it's really about the need to establish the community banking model first as a proper service that is successful, and it's then about the ambition of the institution and what it can actually achieve.

But, again, I'm not sure that it would be a fair test to say that it must be involved in the sort of scale of finance that you might otherwise see in industries like the steel sector. But it's a matter for the institution to set out a proper investment proposal that the Welsh Government can get behind. And I can say that it's my expectation that Welsh language services won't just be online; there'll be in-branch Welsh language services as well. It's part of the attraction of having a proper partnership with a local institution that understands the need to do that. So, I think it would be a good thing for the language and community banking services, as well as the breadth of what we’re going to be able to do over time. The first step, though, is today’s public announcement about the financial institution. The next step will be a proper investment proposal and the due diligence, and then we hope we’ll get on to actually establishing Banc Cambria branches within this Senedd term.

I have several Members who still wish to speak, so can you please all make sure you keep within your time allocation? And I'm sure the Minister will help us by being succinct in his answers. Jack Sargeant.

Diolch yn fawr, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, you will know, clearly, that I have been trying and working very hard to bring a community bank branch to Buckley in my constituency, and I think it’s worth noting that the undertaking of starting Wales’s first community bank and opening a branch is a bold one and a welcome one. So, I am very grateful to you and your officials, but also very grateful to the First Minister, the Minister for Social Justice and Ken Skates, for his time championing the idea in Government. And I think it’s impressive that we do have true cross-party support for this idea. I think it’s the Senedd at its very best.

Today’s announcement from the Welsh Government and Monmouthshire Building Society brings us a huge step closer to a licensed community bank in Wales, and I think that’s a tremendous achievement in realising the ambition of this idea. Now, whilst Banc Cambria will be the first in Wales, I know that many across the UK will be watching to follow their lead, but the important question for residents in Buckley, Minister, is: when will Banc Cambria branches be opening on our high streets, and how long will that take?

But, Deputy Presiding Office, if you will allow me in closing, I know I’m quite known as the Grinch of the Senedd, but I am in that Christmas spirit today and, as I’ve said before, I do sometimes sing Christmas carols, and I am singing the same one as I’ve sung previously, so all I want for Christmas, Minister, is a bank in Buckley. Diolch yn fawr.

Well, I'm sure the good people at Banc Cambria will have heard you before today, as well as today, and I know that they’ll be taking an interest in today’s debate across the Senedd. Look, we expect to receive an investment proposal over the next calendar year, so during 2022, and we’ll then need to go through our due diligence exercise, as I’ve indicated before. So, I can’t give you an exact timescale for that. But the outline expectation is that before the end of 2023 we might see branches starting to open. We’ll need to see the detail of that and where they’ll be in the investment proposal, and it is a matter for Banc Cambria to bring their proposal forward and to set out how they would look to site new branches and where they would start. I’m sure that there will be other bids, but, as I say, the Member’s been very consistent about Banc Cambria.

It is worth pointing out, when I talked earlier about agency agreements, one of the things that Banc Cambria have already done is to do some work with the Cambrian Credit Union in north Wales, to look at a potential agency agreement that again may help to spread the reach of those services and to do so in a way that is a genuine partnership, rather than a competition with credit union services as well. There is a range of things that come from that, and that’s why I tried to set out that I look forward to coming back with more detail to generate the establishment of a branch, and it will then neatly segue into the social justice and community banking sector in a way that I think the Minister for Social Justice would then become the lead Minister, once it’s properly established.

May I add to the cross-party support that has been echoed throughout the virtual Siambr this afternoon? Thank you so much to the Minister and to your team and to the First Minister as well for all your work in bringing this forward. It is an exciting, innovative development and whilst I’ve got this opportunity, mid Wales is looking to develop its financial sector, and we would also welcome the headquarters for Banc Cambria anywhere in mid Wales. So, please do consider that as well.

It is so important for urban and rural areas, and I would just like to comment on the challenges facing rural areas without their banks. I was very privileged to meet with Banc Cambria in Llanidloes, which lost its last bank in 2017, and in Hay-on-Wye, where I live, the last bank closed in 2018. So, this is a really exciting and innovative development. Banks are essential in rural areas because they support small businesses, they support farmers and agriculture, and they support those who are not able to access the digital networks. So, we do welcome this.

I’m not going to repeatedly ask the questions that have been asked previously, because you have been clear that there are still developments to come, but I would just ask and urge that both Banc Cambria and yourself are able to maintain good communications with the communities that are affected by the loss of their banks and that there is a good consultation process that allows people to input into that. I'd also like to echo Luke Fletcher's position on the Welsh language, and you've already given the reassurances around how Banc Cambria are going to be able to meet those expectations. Thank you so much, Minister. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you, and thank you again for the broad welcome. And the point about consultation and the potential for new branches to be a real catalyst for high-street regeneration as well as community wealth, that's a point that I know Members across the Chamber are really interested in, and how to do that in a way that we understand and that Banc Cambria, when they're developing a proposal, understand how they can do that, and work with communities rather than doing something to communities. I think that's been a perception in some of the flight of the traditional branches of banks, that people have felt that stuff has been done to them without necessarily considering the impact. And it is an issue in urban Wales as well, but we do recognise it's particularly acute in rural Wales. And I'm very grateful to you for thanking the team; it's both the team here within the Welsh Government—some of our officials have worked incredibly hard on what is a complex and not straightforward area—but also the team at Monmouthshire Building Society who have been really committed to making this happen. Without that commitment from them, we wouldn't be here today and we'd still be talking about an idea rather than a proper proposal where we can expect a concrete investment proposal next year. So, I will continue to keep Members informed, and I know that Monmouthshire Building Society, together with Banc Cambria, will continue to do so as well.

Can I first of all say 'thank you' for your statement, Minister? You've referenced the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee, as has Mark Isherwood, extensively, but I was privileged to chair that committee, and I think it's fantastic that, on a cross-party basis, we very much supported the work of Banc Cambria and made a series of recommendations, which I hope helped to move issues forward.

With public funding, Minister, can I ask how you and how the Welsh Government are going to ensure that there's a level playing field for all, and particularly for perhaps building societies that are not involved in Banc Cambria?

That's a fair question, and, look, what we're looking at is, we're looking at something that would be a proper investment proposal on a commercial basis. So, it's not as if we're looking to provide preferential lines of credit; it's about finding a partner who can provide a proper detailed commercial investment proposal, provide a return on an investment that the Welsh Government would make. And so, there would be proper due diligence about that, and this wouldn't be, sort of, preferential, 'We're looking after one institution.' And, actually, there was an open call, and Banc Cambria themselves did go out and look for a range of institutions to work with and talk to. Monmouthshire Building Society wanted to do this, were prepared to do this, and recognised it requires the organisation to be committed in a way that some institutions didn't want to be. Now, that's entirely fair. It's for each institution to decide how it wants to manage itself and direct its own energies. I'm really pleased to have Monmouthshire as a trusted partner, working with us now.

And I should say that we really have taken on board the recommendations from the former EIS committee that the Member chaired—I'd probably agree with a great deal more things he said as committee Chair than in his current role. But, no, we really have taken seriously what the committee said, and it's been really useful for us to be able to work from a basis where we know there's cross-party support and we can look to deliver something that should make a difference, where everyone can recognise we're doing something to address a real need. Regardless of how people vote, there's a real need across Wales for us to do something to plug this gap in local banking services.

Thank you, Minister. The community bank of Wales is a really important idea, putting its members and communities first instead of shareholders and profit margins. Along with many of my constituents, I look forward to plans being rolled out, but I note your comments around the challenges in putting the new model in place.

You talked about traditional banks accelerating their retreat from the high street, and I'm sad to note that Barclays bank has been the latest to withdraw from the high street in Aberdare. One idea that constituents asked me to raise with Barclays is the idea of a banking hub where a number of banks can come together in one high-street building to offer their services to the community. Minister, I'd welcome your views on banking hubs, on whether they could be part of the solution to the withdrawal of banking services from the high street. I met with Barclays bosses yesterday and put this idea to them. They told me they're already working with other banks to progress this concept, with the first banking hub set to open in England soon. So, with that in mind, will you commit to working with the sector to try and secure banking hubs in Wales?

Thank you. What we're doing in Wales with the community bank is a novel policy approach that's not been successful anywhere else. Banking hubs are piloting what they might do, and the Member is right to highlight them as part of the answer for the future. So, we're expecting there to be a pilot report on shared banking hubs imminently, and my understanding is that there are two banking hub pilots, one in Lanarkshire and one in Essex, and there's also a community access to cash pilot being taken forward in Hay-on-Wye. So, we will look with real interest at those three different pilots to understand what that might tell us, either about our community bank proposal, or if there are alternative ways of trying to deliver financial inclusion services for communities across Wales. I'm sorry hear that Barclays are proposing to move out of Aberdare. The Member highlights very neatly the exact challenge we're trying to address, and I'd be more than happy to keep her and others updated on what we can do with the current retail banking sector and the possibilities of banking hubs helping to fill some of the gaps they're leaving behind.

I'm grateful to the Minister for his statement this afternoon. You'll be aware, Minister, that I met with Banc Cambria in Abertillery some weeks ago to discuss the potential of locating a branch in the town. Many of our Valleys communities have seen the withdrawal of financial services and have seen some real hardship, both for local businesses and local people, as a consequence of that. Many people will be looking at this as an opportunity of seeing financial services back on the high street as a part of an opportunity to reinvigorate town centres in the Valleys and elsewhere. Would you, Minister, work with Banc Cambria, and Members representing seats in the Valleys, to look at how we can ensure that we have a programme of branches and an opportunity to ensure that financial services are available to people up and down the country wherever they happen to live, whether that's Abertillery, Tredegar, Ebbw Vale, Brynmawr or elsewhere? Thank you.

Indeed, I do understand that there are people who don't live in the Member's constituency, but I praise him for mentioning a number of his constituency towns. Look, there is a real challenge, and the Member highlights it again, about town-centre reinvigoration having a real successful future forward look for our local high streets, and it really does matter for a sense of place in those towns and what people expect about the place where they live. So, I'd be more than happy to carry on the conversation with him as we get the investment proposal around Banc Cambria, as we understand more of the detail about where they're proposing to locate their branches, but crucially how that fits in with our other interventions in any event. Because this isn't just about Banc Cambria resolving all of our ills—and I appreciate the Member didn't say that—but how can it add to what we want to do to make sure there's a real future for Valley towns and others across the country. So, I'd be more than happy to carry on that conversation with the Member at his constructive best.

And lastly, Rhianon Passmore.

Can I also thank the Welsh Government for seeking to address the very difficult problem that is felt in every community throughout Wales, and also extend those thanks to the Monmouthshire Building Society? We know that the UK is served poorly by a number of large banks who ignore customer feedback and continue to adopt a scorched-earth policy to community banking. In the face of almost universal opposition and customer dissatisfaction, they continue to close branches down that have held a very prominent role in our high streets throughout Wales. So, Minister, can you reaffirm that the creation of a community bank for Wales will put people before profit, and will you confirm that the new community bank for Wales will deliver for the many, not the few, on a co-operative mutual model, including with our credit union established partners? And finally, how do I ensure that our new Welsh people's bank and its ATMs establishes on Islwyn high streets for my Valley isolated communities, rooted in industrial co-operation, and who are now very badly denuded by the traditional profit-driven finance model? Thank you.

Well, if Banc Cambria were in any doubt about Members keenness for there to be a successful community bank for Wales with a proper presence in each constituency and communities within those constituencies, they can be in no doubt after the contributions of Members today. I recognise that the passion from Members is genuine because of the constituencies and regions you serve, where you're seeing the direct impact of banks leaving and what it means, particularly for those who are the most likely to be vulnerable or financially excluded. That's why I'm really positive about the fact that we're able to partner with a mutual institution, where they're not looking to take money out of Wales to go to other shareholders. It is the members who are their primary interest and they want to reinvest in those communities.

I do think we've got a good fit for what we're trying to achieve with the Monmouthshire Building Society. I look forward to receiving the investment proposal and I look forward to updating Members on it. More than that, I look forward to seeing if Banc Cambria can start to establish branches within the middle of this Senedd term, not only for the first branches that are established, but also for those other communities that will want to see a community bank branch established. I'm sure that the Member for Islwyn will be making her point forcefully and directly to Banc Cambria about the benefits and advantages of going to Islwyn, just as other Members will do the same for their constituencies too. Many thanks, Rhianon Passmore, and many thanks, Deputy Presiding Officer.

I thank the Minister.