7. Debate on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee Report on the Inter-Institutional Relations Agreement between Senedd Cymru and the Welsh Government

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:14 pm on 15 December 2021.

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Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru 4:14, 15 December 2021

I welcome this agreement between the Senedd and the Welsh Government. At a time when inter-governmental relations are often very poor, to put it mildly, it is so important that the Senedd is fully aware of what's going on. I hope the Senedd can co-operate with Welsh Government to try and improve inter-governmental relations.

As I mentioned yesterday in the fire safety debate, it is the people of Wales that suffer when there is a breakdown between the Welsh and the UK Governments. We have seen, haven't we, recently, in the English channel, the tragic consequences when two Governments put politics in front of people. I do not want to see a second Grenfell Tower happen in Cardiff Bay or in Swansea whilst politicians are still squabbling about who pays for fire safety work. I don't want to see a second Aberfan happening whilst politicians are politicising coal tips instead of getting on with it and clearing this scar from our landscapes.

Yes, as Huw Irranca-Davies mentioned, inter-governmental relations can appear to be a dry subject. I don't expect Members to show much interest in formal inter-governmental agreements, common frameworks, concordats, memoranda or other resolutions. But they are reflective of the relationship between Governments, whether it is constructive, obstructive or even at times destructive. This makes a huge difference to the lives of the people of Wales. I therefore welcome this agreement, because it provides us in the Senedd with the two cornerstones of our democracy: transparency and accountability. It will create greater transparency and therefore enable further scrutiny—our most important role as non-governing Members of the Senedd, as Alun Davies quite rightly stressed in the last debate.

This agreement covers memoranda of understanding. As Members will know, these are not binding on the current Government, let alone successive Governments. They come into existence without any real scrutiny, and often should be in a piece of legislation rather than in a non-binding agreement between two executives. That's why it is so important that the Government is transparent about their existence and that there is an opportunity to challenge their contents. As part of this agreement, I welcome the Welsh Government's commitment to maintain a dedicated page on its own website providing all relevant formal inter-governmental agreements of all kinds that are in place between them and the UK Government. I don't for one minute imagine that the traffic to that page will be high, but it's important that they are there. It's important that they are accessible.

I'm glad that this agreement provides an opportunity for the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and the Welsh Government, to suggest amendments to the agreement during this Senedd. Inter-governmental relations can change very quickly, and I sincerely hope that things will improve when the Westminster Government finally realises that their muscular unionism isn't achieving anything. I'm also pleased by the commitment in paragraph 16 of the agreement that when the Welsh Government intends to establish new arrangements to reach inter-governmental agreements, it will provide advance and adequate notice to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee.

The additional commitment from the First Minister on notifying the Senedd when the Welsh Government will consent and when it has consented to the UK Government exercising a delegated power in a devolved area is so important, to be a real monitoring tool for the Senedd. We've just heard in the debate about the increase of LCMs for primary legislation. It's also important to monitor and scrutinise the extent to which consent is being given to subordinate legislation. This is a matter, of course, that the committee, under Huw Irranca-Davies's chairmanship—. And I'll echo what Peter Fox said about his chairmanship of the committee; we are very fortunate to have him as Chair. We will be taking the lead on it. But as I said in the LCM debate, I hope other Members will take an interest and will become familiar with what's happening, because it does affect our Welsh democracy and therefore impacts the people we serve.

Therefore, Dirprwy Lywydd, so endeth my second sermon—perhaps this time without the fire and brimstone—and I'd be very happy to welcome the Counsel General to my Welsh chapel at any convenient time, perhaps for the carol service this Sunday evening. Diolch yn fawr.