4. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Update on COVID-19

– in the Senedd at 4:16 pm on 11 January 2022.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 4:16, 11 January 2022

(Translated)

The next item this afternoon is the statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services, an update on COVID-19. I call on the Minister, Eluned Morgan.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:17, 11 January 2022

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you for this opportunity to update Members about what continues to be a very serious public health situation. Since the Senedd was recalled before Christmas, the situation in Wales has changed. The omicron wave has arrived, as predicted, and is causing large numbers of people to fall ill. This is disrupting our public services, particularly the NHS, at the busiest time of the year.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I'll start by setting out the public health situation in terms of the latest facts and figures. Just before Christmas, when delta was the dominant form of the virus, the case rate was high but steady at around 500 cases per 100,000 people. The arrival of omicron has caused rates to accelerate to levels not seen before in the pandemic. We saw rates exceed 2,300 cases per 100,000 people last week; yesterday, there were 1,780. But we should be careful before assuming that we've peaked and the worst is over. Case numbers will be affected by the changes in the testing regime and the fact that we no longer require everyone who tests positive on a lateral flow test to take a confirmatory PCR test. This change in testing means we must rely on a broader range of measures to understand the nature of the wave.

The proportion of cases testing positive remains at around 50 per cent. The latest results of the Office for National Statistics infection survey suggest one in 20 people is infected, and our own data on hospitalisations shows the number of COVID-19 admissions continuing to rise, although numbers are much lower than in previous waves. The total number of people in hospital with COVID-19 is now just over 1,000—the highest level since 11 March. But it could be another week before we see cases peak.

There's some hopeful evidence that omicron is less severe than delta, but the rise in hospital numbers and the speed at which it's travelling continues to give cause for concern. We knew the case numbers would rise very fast, we knew that this would put the NHS under pressure, and it would also put other public services under pressure and put pressure on staffing in commercial and retail businesses. The latest figures show staff absences across the NHS, as a result of COVID, self-isolation and other illnesses, running at just over 8 per cent last week, but in some NHS organisations it's more than double this. Unfortunately, this means some appointments and treatments are being postponed and staff are being transferred to work in urgent and emergency services. Other parts of the public sector have reported similar levels and are putting in motion civil contingency plans to move staff to protect essential services.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we took early action to introduce protective measures to keep Wales safe and to keep Wales open, in line with advice from our technical advisory group and the UK's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies. We are at alert level 2 and we've strengthened guidance to support people to stay safe in their own homes. We keep the situation and the alert level 2 measures under constant review. We have made some additional changes, firstly to the self-isolation rules, reducing the period of self-isolation from 10 to seven days for those people who have two consecutive negative lateral flow tests on days 6 and 7. The decision to change the self-isolation period reflects the latest evidence on how long people can transmit the virus for and supports essential public services and supply chains over the winter, while still limiting the spread of the virus. The first change to the testing regime means that people who are unvaccinated contacts of positive cases and are self-isolating for 10 days should now take a lateral flow test on day 2 and day 8, instead of a PCR test.

And, together with the other UK nations, we have agreed that, if a person has a positive lateral flow test, they will no longer be advised to have a follow-up PCR test to confirm the result, unless they are in a clinically vulnerable group or have been advised to do so as part of a research or surveillance programme. We believe that this change will reduce the demand for PCR tests by between 5 per cent and 15 per cent.

(Translated)

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:22, 11 January 2022

(Translated)

Without a follow-up PCR test, it is even more important for people to report the result of every lateral flow test they undertake and to self-isolate as soon as they test positive. If this isn't done, contact tracing will not be possible, so we will be unable to give the support that some people need. We need everyone to continue to play their part in disrupting the transmission of COVID-19 by reporting their lateral flow test results on the gov.uk website or by phoning 119.

Last week, I reluctantly agreed to remove the requirements for fully vaccinated travellers and those under 18 years of age to take a pre-departure test and a day 2 PCR test when arriving in the UK. All fully vaccinated travellers will need to take a lateral flow test on day 2 and, if this test is positive, a follow-up PCR test will need to be undertaken to enable genomic sequencing to be carried out. The requirement to self-isolate until a negative test has been reviewed has also been removed, but we are considering introducing guidance that those should continue to self-isolate until they've had a test. The requirements for non-vaccinated travellers remain unchanged.

The fact that the UK Government is reopening international travel so swiftly does cause us concern, given the concerns about the risk of importing new variants and adding additional pressure on our health services. Day 2 PCR testing acts as something of a surveillance system for international travel. If we had retained the requirement for a day 2 PCR test, we may have been alerted to the presence of omicron earlier. 

Llywydd, the latest analysis published by the UK Health Security Agency about omicron shows that there is a substantial reduction in the risk of hospitalisation after three doses of the vaccine as compared to those who are unvaccinated. Sadly, the majority of people with COVID-19 who are being cared for in our critical care units at the moment are those who haven't been vaccinated. Vaccination remains the best protection available.

Our booster vaccination take-up rates are impressive. More than 1.7 million people in Wales have received their booster. We reached our aim of offering all eligible adults a booster by the end of the year, thanks to the magnificent efforts of all the staff and volunteers in our NHS teams. Hundreds of thousands of people will be offered boosters this month too, so please do make this your priority.

We have also seen more people coming forward for their first and second doses of the vaccine over the last month, and it's never too late to be vaccinated here in Wales. We are now approaching what we think will be the peak stage of this wave of cases. We all have a part to play in combating this latest worrying stage of the pandemic that has interrupted our lives to such an extent. I urge everyone to have the vaccine when offered, to observe the restrictions in force, to take lateral flow tests and to report the results. These actions, along with all of the other protections we have in place in Wales, will help to slow the spread of the virus, to reduce the harm to people and communities, and to keep us all safe. Thank you very much.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd, and can I wish you a happy new year, and the Minister and all Members as well? Let's hope 2022 is a good year.

Thank you for your statement today, Minister. Can I also thank you for your briefings that you provided to me and other colleagues today with your officials? I think they're particularly very helpful, so greatly appreciated. I note that recent research by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies suggests that you're twice as likely to catch COVID shopping than in a cinema, and going to the pub carries the same risk as going on public transport. So, I suppose I'm pointing that out in the context of the current set of restrictions and the fact that the impact of restrictions is having potentially less of an impact due to the prevalence of the virus in communities. So, I hope you understand the context of the point there. But can I ask: do you still believe, Minister, that COVID passes have been successful? What are your criteria for ending the passes, and when will you be in a position to provide the evidence that COVID passes in Wales have been successful or not successful, as the case may be?

The threat, of course, Minister, to the economy and public services grinding to a halt is just as grave as the virus itself, in part due to the self-isolation rules. The latest data shows that 1.4 per cent of NHS staff are self-isolating—that's the highest level since April last year, yet fairly consistent with the rates this time last year. It's very welcome, Minister, as you mentioned in your statement itself, that Wales has now introduced a lower self-isolation period of seven days. Now, I'd seek your views on reducing this period further. I note that the UK Health Security Agency is looking at the seven-day period being lowered, and, of course, I ask this in the context that, at some point, there will be no isolation period, as is the case virtually for all viruses. I appreciate we're not at that point yet, but that's the point that we will get to at some point; that's the context of the question.

You said in your statement, Minister, that some appointments and treatments are being postponed while staff are being transferred to work elsewhere. We know we've got large backlogs—one in five of the Welsh population on waiting lists, cancer diagnoses being missed. Now, I noticed that the shadow Minister for health in Westminster and your Labour colleague has expressed his support for using private hospitals to clear the backlog, and I'm pleased to hear that the English NHS has entered into arrangements with private providers. So, can I ask: will you follow your Westminster colleague's view to do whatever it takes to tackle the backlog? Can I ask how far along you are with regional surgical hubs since your announcement last year? Effectively, when are we going to see them, I suppose?

Now, evidence is steadily piling up to suggest that the vaccines are working, with 90 per cent fewer patients being admitted to UK hospitals because of the booster jab, and I'm of course pleased that two thirds of the Welsh population have come forward for their booster jabs. I join you in thanking all those who made this happen, especially during the Christmas period. Prior to COVID, we'd seen roughly around about 2,000 deaths, sadly, from flu every year in Wales, and the Welsh NHS was already facing winter pressures every year also. Your statement says that you will keep the restrictions under review, but the constant threat of or concerns about restrictions for years to come that limit people's movements and daily life—I think you said in your statement as well that they interrupt our lives—so, therefore, we've got to come to a position of knowing when we're going to come to an end of restrictions. So, can I ask you to tell us when the Welsh Government will be publishing the criteria for a return to life without restrictions, because I hope you can understand why those criteria and plan are important for people and businesses to be aware of? Diolch, Llywydd.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:31, 11 January 2022

Diolch yn fawr, Russell, and a happy new year to you, and it's good to see everybody back, although obviously we all hope to be together in the Chamber once we're out of this particular wave. We're all hoping that this year is going to be better than last year and certainly we're hoping that we'll see an end to this particular wave very, very shortly.

I was also struck by the statements, both in the SAGE report and in our own TAC report, that suggested that shopping, actually, was responsible for quite a lot of the spread of the virus. I think the difference in terms of the restrictions we've got in place that demand, for example, that people need to show a COVID pass to go into cinemas compared to shopping is that you don't have to go to a cinema, whereas, actually, it's very difficult to live without food, and you do need to go shopping for that. So, that's the significant difference in terms of why we've brought in measures in some places rather than in others.

We're obviously keen to see what measures we can put in place to make sure that the booster is also acknowledged on the COVID pass, if we're going to use that in future as a measure. What we do know is that the booster gives protection to people and has stopped significant numbers from going into hospital, as those reports have suggested. Of course, it is commonplace on the continent for people to be using these COVID passes and, of course, it has also been introduced in England now in some settings. So, I'm glad to see England following the lead of Wales once again.

In relation to the NHS, you've heard that about 8 per cent of NHS staff are self-isolating. I need to make it absolutely clear: we are not at the end of this COVID crisis yet. We are in a situation where we are getting to the top of the wave, so it does shock me rather that we keep on talking about what the future's going to look like. We are in the middle of the storm at the moment; now is not the time to talk about dismantling the protection measures we've put in place.

Having said that, we have to recognise that the number of people contracting the virus at the moment is having a huge impact on our ability to ensure that those public services are maintained, which is why we listened to the advice, and it was listening to specialist advice that suggested that we could reduce the self-isolation time from 10 to seven with a negative PCR on days 6 and 7. But, certainly, the advice that I've seen hitherto from the UK Health Security Agency suggests that it would be counter-productive to reduce further than seven days because, actually, you could be sending people back into the workplace and spreading the virus further. So, that was certainly their advice in the past; if they change their minds, then obviously we will need to look at that advice. So, we will be clinically led on this decision. I think it's worth noting that in the States, for example, where the requirement to self-isolate is for five days, that they start from a different point. So, they start from when they see the onset of symptoms, whereas we start at the point of testing, and there is a significant difference there. So, we just need to understand that.

You talk about the NHS in England using private hospitals to help clear the backlog; we're doing that as well here in Wales, Russell, so that is already happening in most health boards already. The issue at the moment is that actually there's not much capacity left in those private hospitals either. So, even if we wanted to go further down that route, it would be very difficult to find the capacity because they're the same people doing these jobs very often—people who work in the NHS sometimes work in the private sector as well. Our choice would always be to try and see that priority be given to the NHS. We've invested £0.25 billion to try and help clear the backlog. What I'd like to see is that money being invested so that we've got something permanent and long-term afterwards to put in place and to use for the future, and that's why I too am very much in favour of surgical hub centres if possible, and I've made it clear to health boards in Wales that when they come up with their proposals and their plans that I'm expecting to see some regional solutions in their recommendations. So, I'll be looking at those very carefully.

We are keeping restrictions under review constantly, of course. That's why we've gone to a weekly review at the moment, and of course we're all very keen to see life return to some kind of normality. I think now is not the time, Russ, to set out when that is going to happen because we are genuinely in the eye of the storm at the moment, but of course we're all desperate to get out of the situation and to relax those restrictions as soon as we possibly can.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 4:37, 11 January 2022

(Translated)

Thank you, Minister, for today's statement. Yes, we are in a very uncertain situation. The numbers of positive cases are very high. We know that—I know from the experience of my entire family and from testing positive myself on Christmas Day how much community transmission there has been. But looking forward is what's important now. I know that the Minister wanted to strike a very serious tone with the statement today—and that's understandable, of course, it's a very difficult situation in several ways—but I think I would have liked to have seen greater attention being paid to the positive signs now because it's on those that we will be able to build, hopefully, and it's those, hopefully, as they become clearer, and as the light at the end of the tunnel becomes brighter, that should be guiding the decisions in coming days.

I'm very grateful to your officials who have given me two briefings over the past 24 hours. It's good to see the encouraging signs, the clear evidence about how much less likely individuals are to become very ill as a result of this variant as compared to delta and the good news in terms of the pressure on critical care units. There are also clear signs, it's important to say, that the regulations that have been in place over the past few weeks have been effective in general. I will raise some questions on some aspects of them in a moment.

But of course, because of the high number of positive cases—far greater than in any other wave,—we know that there is still a significant impact on health services. That's true in terms of the numbers of staff who are poorly, although many of them are missing work because of other reasons too—it's important to remember that. And on that point, may I ask why not make that decision now, as the RCN and others have asked, to provide FFP3 face masks for staff to safeguard them, to make it less likely that they will be impacted by the virus?

There's pressure too in terms of how many are COVID positive in hospitals that need to be treated differently as a result of that and the pressure that emanates from that. It's important to remember that it's a minority of COVID-positive patients who are in hospital because of problems with regard to COVID; some of them are there because they've broken their arm, for example, but they happen to be COVID positive. And it's clear too that there are other problems here, and we must bear that in mind. There's the unsustainability of the NHS—winter pressures, to give it another name—which is the main reason for the challenges in the NHS at the moment, and what the difficult COVID situation has done is exacerbate that. The result is that the pressure on health and care services, because of the omicron wave, is likely to continue for a long while yet. There is a need to be cautious, but there are signs that we are coming to the peak of the wave itself in terms of case numbers. Perhaps part of what we are seeing, in terms of positive cases starting to level off, is the result of the change in testing rules and the fact that fewer people are having a PCR test now. May I ask what steps the Government are taking to ensure that more people record positive LFT results? That’s very important.

But, as things stand, there are signs that things are starting to improve. So, my central question is: how soon, once we are confident that we have come to the peak of this wave, will the Government start to adapt these latest regulations? I know that the Minister doesn’t want to give a timescale for that. I also know that she doesn’t want more regulations than are needed at any particular time. But can we expect a swift response in terms of some of the regulations? Earlier, Llyr Gruffydd made the case for enabling more people to watch sporting events. I note that Scotland, who are a little bit ahead of us in terms of the current wave and have perhaps already reached the peak, have announced today that they want to welcome crowds back to sporting events. So, can we have an assurance that it’s the Government’s intention to do that at the earliest possible opportunity? With smaller games that usually have a few hundred in the crowd, I don’t see any reason why they couldn't be allowed straight away. May I invite the Minister to take that step, to increase the number of people who can come together for open-air events like those?

The same is true of parkruns, as has been raised by other Members today. I would like to see those restarting. If the Government doesn’t believe that that is safe, then perhaps we could have an explanation from the Minister as to why. I’m not calling for a lifting of all of the regulations here—I know that the Minister realises that—but we do need to see where we can finesse the regulations in place and I think that the positive signs that we are starting to see are those that we should take action on as soon as possible.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:42, 11 January 2022

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Rhun, and I’m pleased to see that you’re better after your experience of COVID. There are so many people who’ve been in the same situation as you over the festive period, so I’m pleased to see you back and that you’re safe and well. Certainly it is good to see that there are positive signs in terms of the direction of travel, particularly with regard to the numbers in our hospitals. So, that is a good sign.

In terms of the cases, it is good to see that the figures are coming down, but I do think that we need to be really careful about the figures at the moment. I don’t want to be too pessimistic; I want to be a realist, but there are some things that have changed recently that do suggest that we should take some time before we start celebrating that we have reached the peak of this wave. One of the reasons, of course, is that we have stopped asking people to go for PCR tests because they have to take an LFT and then they don’t have to take a PCR test. That perhaps has had an impact on the numbers. The schools have returned this week, so we don’t know yet what the impact on the numbers will be as a result of that. And also there's the situation in terms of sewage, as we monitor sewage, and that does give the impression that the cases are, if anything, increasing. So, we do want to be very careful before we start celebrating that we have reached the peak.

In terms of FFP3 face masks, I know that a great deal of research has been undertaken on this. We are keeping this under review and we are asking the experts about what the best way forward is, constantly, and if we should be taking this step. They are currently telling us that we don’t need to take that step because there are pros and cons: they are much more uncomfortable, they are much more difficult to deal with. So, there are reasons for not taking that step. That's why we are waiting for advice from the experts in this field.

In terms of the unsustainability of the NHS, one of the things that I'm very eager to do is to learn the lessons from COVID. One of those lessons that we've seen is that COVID has hit people in different communities in different ways. So, we do need to do a great deal more to focus on prevention, to ensure that the inequality in our communities is eradicated. Of course, we would be eager to see more people recording the result of their lateral flow tests, and that's something that I wanted to underline in the press statement today.

In terms of how soon we can dismantle some of those regulations, well, of course we're eager to do this as soon as possible. We're very aware that these restrictions are having a damaging impact on a great many people, businesses and individuals. We will take that opportunity as soon as we think it's safe to do so. The First Minister has already asked for advice on the options in terms of how to lessen the regulatory burden as soon as possible, and what the options are in that direction. That work is already being done.

Photo of John Griffiths John Griffiths Labour 4:46, 11 January 2022

Thank you, Minister, for your statement today. From my experience, I think the vast majority of the population in Wales very much support the Welsh Government's rightly cautious approach to COVID-19, and they're very grateful that they live in Wales so that they're protected in that way. I hear what you say, Minister, about the balance of understanding the current course of the virus and wanting to ease protections as soon as it's safe to do so. In that context, and the context of the weekly review—and, I think, next week a three-weekly review—I just wonder, Minister, if there's anything you can say about some of the requests for easing at the moment spectator sport, for example, and indeed the parkrun. I think parkruns in particular have a very strong case, as I'm sure you've recognised, because they're very much a public health initiative in themselves, and of course they're open air, and they're very well organised, and they've got a very good safety record. Understandably, the organisers understand the importance of making sure that people get into good habits early in the year, particularly in January, when people are making new year's resolutions, and so on. If they do decide to get more physically active, then that may benefit their health not just in the short term, but if they continue the habits, long into the future for the rest of their lives. So, it's a very important balance, and I know that some of the decisions that you and Government colleagues have to take are very finely balanced, Minister. But I just wonder if there's anything you can say in terms of if the course of the virus does allow some easing of restrictions, would parkruns and spectator sports be at the front of the queue, so to speak. 

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:48, 11 January 2022

Thanks very much, John. Of course, we've had countless requests to relax our regulations in relation to spectator sports, and we completely understand that. We're all very keen to see if it is possible to dismantle these before the six nations tournament. Obviously we're going to keep things very closely under review, and if possible, we will do everything we can to see if we can make that happen. Just in terms of spectator sport, obviously I think it does make a difference whether things are being held indoors or outdoors, so I think that is something we need to consider. On parkruns, I just think it is probably worth noting that there are plenty of people doing parkruns. This is a particular event, which is an international organisation. They have a way of doing things. We have suggested to them, 'Why don't you just break these people up into groups of 50? Then you could actually do it', but the organisers haven't wanted to do things in that way. So, we've given them that option, but they're the people who've decided that they don't want to do it in that way. So, I think there has got to be a bit of give and take here, because the flexibility is there, if they wanted to take advantage of that. I think you're right, John, we've all made our new year's resolutions, we've all said that we're all going to get fitter, we're going to eat better and all of those things that we all promise to do at the beginning of the year. I am sure that, in those options that have been requested by the First Minister, that option of easing restrictions on outdoor sporting events is likely to be one of the first contenders.

Photo of Gareth Davies Gareth Davies Conservative 4:50, 11 January 2022

Thank you for your statement this afternoon, Minister, and for addressing members of the health committee earlier today, at lunchtime—and a happy new year, of course. Thankfully, of course, according to many experts, we're in a transition from a pandemic to an endemic. While we learn to live with this disease, we must redouble efforts to protect the most vulnerable, those living in our care homes. Thankfully, the vaccines appear to be holding their own against the omicron variant, at least when it comes to hospitalisations and deaths. Minister, thanks to an amazing job by all involved in the vaccine roll-out, from the UK and Welsh Governments to the army of volunteers at our mass vax centres, over half the UK population have been boosted to date. However, we still have a large percentage of care home staff yet to be boosted—as many as one in four. We also have one out of every 10 care home residents yet to receive their third jab. Minister, when will all care home staff and residents be boosted, and will you make this a top priority? And what additional measures are you proposing to protect care home residents, going forwards? Finally, Minister, as well as vaccines, our care home staff need additional protections because they can't work from home. Will you ensure that all care home staff are provided with the best possible PPE, such as FFP3 masks? Thank you. 

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:52, 11 January 2022

Thank you very much, Gareth. Obviously, we are really keen to make sure that we protect the most vulnerable, but we need to make sure also that they have the opportunity, for example, to meet their loved ones. We're trying to get the balance right between protecting them and, for example, allowing visitors into care homes. It is a really difficult balance, because I'm sure, Gareth, you'd be one of the first to complain if we saw omicron being introduced into care homes as well as a result of visitors. So, we have got to get that balance right, and it is difficult to get that right. But, we've got to remember that these care homes actually exist in our communities and our communities, at the moment, are trying to deal with a very high rate of COVID.

Certainly when it comes to vaccination figures, 90 per cent of care home residents, I'm pleased to say, have received their booster. That's a very significant protection measure for them. When it comes to the staff, I think one of the things you need to consider and to remember is that, if you've had COVID, you are not allowed to have the vaccination for 28 days. So, there may be a period where people will not be able to get the boosters. We'll just make sure that we follow those up constantly. We're very, very keen, obviously, to make sure that those care home staff, as many as possible, are supported. And certainly healthcare staff, 92 per cent of them, generally, have had a second dose. So, we're up at pretty high levels of protection. We've also got to remember that, when it comes to care home staff, there is a more transient group of people who work in those settings. There will be some people coming in and leaving, and so we've just got to bear that in mind, that it may mean that that's slightly different from the levels that you may see in other sectors. 

When it comes to PPE, you'll be aware that we have literally given millions upon millions of pieces of PPE to care homes. We've helped them with that protection all the way through this pandemic. And, again, if the evidence suggests that we should be using more protective measures, like the FFP3 masks that you were suggesting, then obviously we'll consider that. But, at the moment, we are not being advised to do that. 

Photo of Mabon ap Gwynfor Mabon ap Gwynfor Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and happy new year. You will be aware of the evidence that my colleague Liz Saville Roberts, the Member of Parliament for Dwyfor Meirionnydd in Westminster, has put forward, and the evidence put forward by my colleague here, Rhys ab Owen, of their experiences in talking about their loved ones with dementia and living in care homes in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic. Everyone understands fully the need to control the infection and to safeguard public health. As you mentioned in response to Gareth Davies, it's a matter of striking a balance, but I'm afraid in this case the balance is incorrect. Groups of people who have particular needs have different rules when it comes to visits. If you consider mothers and newborns, for example, it's possible for them to ensure that partners are part of the birthing process. There is room to argue therefore that we should have the same kind of exceptions for patients with dementia, for example. These people are being excluded from the love of their loved ones, and that's contrary to some of their greatest needs. So, will you look again at the guidelines and ensure that the loved ones of patients of this kind have access to homes, so that they can spend vital time in the company of their loved ones?    

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:56, 11 January 2022

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Mabon. I'm very aware of the situation and how difficult it is for those who are suffering dementia who don't understand exactly what is going on, and why they can't see their loved ones. But the fact is that our guidelines are clear. We have made it entirely clear that we expect care homes to allow people to visit, especially if they are a very close family member. The guidelines are very clear. The problem that we have here is that some of the care homes that are privately run, they say that they don't want these guidelines to apply in their case, and they are concerned perhaps in some cases that their insurance, for example, wouldn't protect them if there were to be a situation if COVID were to be introduced into that care home. So, our guidelines are as clear as they can be: people should be able to visit their loved ones. But that's where the issue arises, because the majority of the care homes are private care homes that have private insurance, and they then make that decision.   

Photo of Rhianon Passmore Rhianon Passmore Labour 4:57, 11 January 2022

The public health position in Wales today still remains fragile; an estimated one in 20 citizens infected, cases testing positive around 50 per cent and, as a direct consequence, staff absences across the Welsh NHS running at just over 8 per cent last week, with some trusts double this. So, it's no surprise then that the Aneurin Bevan health board in Gwent has decreed essential-only hospital visits for patients. Minister, it is never too late to be vaccinated in Wales. Indeed, we know that vaccination makes a fundamental difference, and that is why 1.7 million Welsh residents have already received their booster jabs. What can the Welsh Government, Minister, do to promote, publicise and make available more walk-in vaccination clinics, such as those being held today at the Pontllanfraith mass vaccination centre in Islwyn, and what more can the Welsh Government do to reach those who currently remain unvaccinated to convince them of the advantages that vaccinations offer to themselves, their families and to all of us? Diolch. 

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 4:58, 11 January 2022

Thanks very much, Rhianon. You're absolutely right that the pressure the NHS is under at the moment is truly extraordinary, which is why, of course, we're trying to direct people to get the right help at the right time in the right place. We're directing people to use the 111 service. There are online services that people can use. They can use their local pharmacies for some ailments. And so, we're trying to take as much pressure off the NHS staff as we possibly can.

In terms of vaccination centres, we're thrilled to bits with the incredible achievement over the three weeks. To vaccinate, to boost 1.3 million people in such a short space of time is something that we shouldn't take for granted. It is truly a feat that we should all be incredibly proud of. I'm not sure if that could happen anywhere else in the world without the kind of NHS that we've learnt to grow and love. Just in terms of the vaccination clinics, they are now available in every health board. So, there is a facility, and if people want to know where they can go for their vaccinations, they should look at the website for their health board—that will direct you to where you can go.

In terms of the unvaccinated, the good news is that, actually, as a result of the booster programme and the big campaign and the publicity campaign around that, actually what we've seen is an increase in the number of people coming forward for their first doses and their second doses. So, we are pleased to see that figure just edging up constantly, because that is the best protection that we can give to people. So, we are very pleased to see that that's happening, but we will continue that outreach, as we have done throughout the vaccination programme.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 5:00, 11 January 2022

How do you respond to concern raised with me by deaf community representatives in north Wales about the lack of information in British sign language on the official website on how to take lateral flow tests and PCR tests, where, as they state, if their members are struggling, even with their assistance, then others must be also?

Concern was also raised with me by constituents after the announcement 12 days ago that the Welsh Government had agreed to loan 4 million lateral flow tests to the UK Government, which deals with distribution for the whole of the UK, where they had unsuccessfully attempted to find lateral flow tests in chemists and distribution centres open in four Flintshire and Denbighshire towns. How do you therefore respond to their statement that this lack of availability was not compatible with Mark Drakeford's statement that we have more than a greater supply to meet our needs, and to the subsequent statement yesterday that, although they have now managed to source lateral flow tests, staff and customers at the pharmacies they went to during their search for these the previous week told them that it was viewed as luck if one managed to get them?

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 5:02, 11 January 2022

Thanks very much, Mark. I'll take up your point about the facilities for deaf people. I want to make sure that those are addressed, so I'll certainly take that away and see if our officials are able to give some clearer advice on that.

In relation to the lateral flow tests, I think that it is important, where we can—. You know, we're party that believes in the United Kingdom, and there are times when we'll be asking for support from the United Kingdom Government, and on this occasion, they were asking for our support.

There's a huge difference, Mark, between supply and distribution. So, there's not a problem with supply—there's plenty of supply—the issue has been with distribution. Now, when it comes to pharmacies, the responsibility for distribution to the pharmacies is with the UK Government. So, I would suggest, Mark, that you have a word with your colleagues in Westminster and tell them to pull their finger out and to make sure that we can get access to those lateral flow tests in our pharmacies. We're putting pressure on, but it would be very helpful, Mark, if you could speak to your counterparts in your party and ask them to put pressure on the Tory Government to make sure that there is a better system of distribution. The supply in Wales is fine. The distribution is the problem, and when it comes to pharmacy distribution, that is the responsibility of the UK Government.

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru 5:03, 11 January 2022

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd, and thank you, Minister, for the statement today. I'd like to add to your thanks to the healthcare workers for their heroic work, and I'd like to extend my thanks to unpaid carers for everything that they're doing at the moment.

In terms of free LFTs, is it possible to have confirmation that they will continue to be available free of charge in Wales, regardless of what happens in England? This is something that unpaid carers have raised with me as a concern, because they're very dependent on them in terms of being able to do everything within their ability to safeguard their loved ones from the virus.

Also, an issue that I have raised with you before, namely COVID passes for individuals who can't be vaccinated or who can't take an LFT—can we have an update, please, in terms of when this work will be completed, to give assurance to those individuals who currently can't live their full lives within the restrictions, because they can't access a pass?

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 5:04, 11 January 2022

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Heledd. You are correct: heroic work has been done by all kinds of people over the past few weeks—in terms of carers, those who work for health services, and particularly those unpaid carers who work on all of our behalf. The fact is, if they weren't there, we as a Government would have to step into the breach, or local government would have to do that work for them. So, we always want to express our thanks to those unpaid carers.

In terms of those lateral flow tests, I was genuinely surprised that the UK Government had raised this issue in the middle of the pandemic when we were at the peak of a wave. If you want to create a situation where people rush out to try to get hold of as many LFTs as possible, when it's difficult to source them—. It was incredible that they'd considered doing that at this time. So, no, there are no plans for us to charge for LFTs.

In terms of the COVID passes, I think I said before Christmas that detailed work is being done on this issue. I said at that time that it's the same people who are working on this issue as have been working on other issues, such as the testing regime, so at the moment they are in the middle of that particular storm, so I would ask you to be a little more patient for a while yet, so we can come to the end of this particular push to get people vaccinated. And certainly, I will follow up once again. I know, Heledd, that this is a really important issue for you, and certainly, we haven't lost sight of it either, but at the moment it's the same people doing both jobs of work.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 5:06, 11 January 2022

I'm grateful to you, Minister, for the statement and your answers this afternoon, which I think have set a lot of minds at rest. In answer to a question from Russell George at the beginning of the session, you said that it wasn't the time to discuss dismantling our regulations, if you like, when you're at the centre of a storm. I would argue that that is exactly the right time to discuss the way forward, as it happens, because when we're seeking to persuade a population to abide by particular regulations, I think we have to be able to draw a route-map for people as we go through this storm, as we go through these regulations. I think the points about a route-map were well made by the leader of the opposition, actually, earlier this afternoon as well.

So, I'd like to understand from the Government where you see this going at the moment. Now, I'm not asking you to make predictions, but I'm asking you to be a little bit more clear, if you like. What metrics are the Government using in order to inform its decisions? It appears to be hospitalisations rather than infection levels. Infection levels are very, very high, and so have positivity rates been. But we haven't seen changes to regulations as a consequence of that. So, I assume we're looking at hospitalisations as a consequence. Is that the case? At which point would a particular number of people being hospitalised trigger additional regulations, or reductions in hospitalisations trigger a reduction in regulations? I think it would be useful for us to understand the Government's thinking on that.

The final point, Presiding Officer, I'd like to make, is on the role of the COVID passes in terms of reducing the regulations we have at the moment. Like others, I would like to see a far greater number of freedoms in terms of outdoor activities, and I have to say I'm not overly convinced by some of the Government's arguments on some of the outdoor activities. I'm not sure the Government has made its case on that. But certainly, in terms of enabling people to meet and to attend events and activities, the COVID pass was before Christmas, in the autumn, when we had our debates on this, the means of enabling people to do that with a level of safety. I agree with that argument. I think the COVID pass was a good measure in order to promote and to ensure public safety whilst enabling people to enjoy a level of freedom, and I would like to see the COVID pass being used as part of a step-down from regulations where we are today, in order to ensure that the maximum number of people can enjoy the maximum amount of freedom, commensurate with the overriding requirement to maintain a priority of public health. Thank you.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 5:09, 11 January 2022

Thanks very much, Alun. Obviously, we do have a kind of route-map out of this in the sense that we already have the levels that are in place, so there's no reason why we couldn't just move down the levels pretty quickly. We don't even need to move to level 1; maybe that we could move directly to level zero, or it may be that we would like to go even faster, and it may be that we would want to introduce some relaxations quicker than others. So, all of those things have been things that the First Minister now has asked for some advice on, so that we can see a way out of this.

In terms of what metrics we'll be using, well, we've always used as a metric the pressure on the NHS and we wouldn't want to see the NHS being overwhelmed. So, obviously hospitalisations—there's good news on hospitalisations, so that's a relief. I guess the pressure on the NHS at the moment is actually coming from absenteeism, so that's where the pressure is at the moment, at a time, let's not forget, when the NHS is under significant pressure, so this time of year is always difficult, but to try and cope with this at a time when you've got 8 per cent of your staff off—. And let's not forget, it's not over yet, so we just need to make sure that we are getting those up-to-date absentee figures. So, I think those two things are going to be pretty key in terms of making our determination.

And when it comes to the COVID pass, I think that the COVID pass gave people a measure of confidence, actually, that, actually, it was a bit safer to go out. I think they want to know that the people around them are taking it seriously, and knowing that other people around you have been vaccinated or have been boosted—certainly in terms of the e-mails I was receiving, it was very interesting to see the number of people saying, 'Right, I will go to the cinema. I wasn't happy to go before now.' But very interesting, and certainly, from the response I had from one cinema, saying: 'We've never had it so good.' It was really interesting; that was the difference. I don't know if that's still the case, but certainly, at the time, delta was the dominant variant, and certainly, that's the position at the moment.

Photo of Laura Anne Jones Laura Anne Jones Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, happy new year. My colleagues Gareth, Russell and Mark have comprehensively asked most of what I wanted to cover, and our shared concerns, and Alun Davies too, who I don't often find myself agreeing with. However, on this case, I do, and I'd like to reiterate calls for that road map out of restrictions. There does need to be more of a comprehensive road map out of them, and there also needs to be something that—. The citizens of Wales are now crying out for some sort of goal to work towards, so I'd just like to reiterate that.

Also, just quickly on parkruns, I think from my discussions with them, I think it's the amount of extra volunteers needed. That's the problem when you want to try and split them up into groups of 50.

I want to ask you on face masks, if I may, Minister. I spoke to Dr Rob Orford, chief scientific adviser, this morning, about the need for masks in classrooms all day—not just around schools, in classrooms—and this decision, as we know, and the need to balance the harm, the balance of harms with this decision—. As we know, many headteachers and our children will have told you, too, the disruption to learning it causes, as well as the obvious impact on mental health, communication, and how uncomfortable it is. And also, as Altaf, my colleague, raised this morning, wearing the same mask all day long; I'm sure not sure how good that is. It'll be interesting to see your viewpoint on how much work and guidance has been done on that, and how they're disposed—how we dispose of masks in schools. I thought it was a very valid point raised by Altaf this morning. I was encouraged too by Dr Orford's response and acknowledgement of the detrimental effect masks in classrooms all day has on children and the need to remove them as soon as possible.

So, Minister, due to the figures that we are seeing, and the evidence that we've seen of South Africa and London, that we are sort of nearing that peak now here in Wales, how much longer do you foresee that we might have to have that restriction still in the guidance, to keep masks on in schools all day long? And do you have a date that you'd like to end that particular restriction? I know in England, it's 26 January. I was just wondering if you had a particular date in mind for people to work towards, and also how you're balancing mask wearing with ventilation, adaptations and testing in our schools. Thank you.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour 5:14, 11 January 2022

Thanks very much, Laura, and certainly, what we do know is that face covering in classrooms is not something we ideally want to see. We know that it's uncomfortable, we know that the children's commissioner, for example, is very unhappy about the need to do that, but also recognised that there are some exceptional circumstances, and that actually now was an exceptional circumstance. The rates are so incredibly high that we just need to make sure we understand that.

The other thing, of course, to bear in mind in relation to schools is that there is a local infection decision control framework, many schools have introduced one-way systems and seating plans for older learners, they've staggered the start and end times of the day and that actually we've distributed 30,000 carbon dioxide monitors to our schools and given £3.3 million for ventilation controls. So, we are taking this seriously. I know schools are taking it very seriously.

I think your points about masks are very well made, which is why we do need to think not just about some of the points you made, but also about making sure that they fit well, because that makes a huge difference in terms of spread as well. We haven't got a date that is clear at the moment. We've learnt from the mistakes made in England that if you set a date and then you have to change it you just look a bit stupid. So, we don't want to be in that situation. So, what we will do is to continue our approach, which is the three-weekly reviews, which has now been reduced to a weekly review. Of course, we want to get rid of them as soon as we possibly can, as soon as it's safe to do so. We recognise this is not a comfortable situation for children, and obviously we will try and dismantle that particular restriction as soon as we possibly can.