Item 5 is next, the legislative consent motion on the Public Service Pensions and Judicial Offices Bill. I call on the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution to move the motion. Mick Antoniw.

Motion NDM7907 Mick Antoniw

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6, agrees that provisions in the Public Service Pensions and Judicial Offices Bill in so far as they fall within the legislative competence of the Senedd, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the legislative consent motion for the Public Service Pensions and Judicial Offices Bill.

Most of this Bill is outside devolved competence. The provisions with which we are concerned today are solely about increasing the mandatory retirement age for members of our devolved tribunals to the age of 75, and arrangements for sitting in retirement. These are things on which we have concluded that, under the current settlement at least, it makes sense for there to be continued parity between England and Wales.

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee and the Equality and Social Justice Committee have both scrutinised the legislative consent memorandum. I thank them for their consideration of the memorandum and for their reports on this matter. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee agreed with our assessment of the provisions in the Bill requiring the consent of the Senedd.

The Equality and Social Justice Committee concluded that the majority of the committee had no objection to the agreement of the motion, noting that one Member expressed concern about the principle of legislation that will apply in Wales being enacted via a UK Government Bill rather than a Welsh Government Bill. This is not a position with which I disagree. Generally, primary legislation in devolved areas should be enacted by the Senedd. Our approach to legislating is to maximise outcomes that can be achieved through the capacity we have to introduce our own legislation and through taking appropriate opportunities available to us in the UK Government's legislative programme. In this instance, the provisions are intended to provide greater flexibility to meet business needs across courts and tribunals. Wales would be at a disadvantage if judicial office holders were faced with a shorter and potentially less flexible judicial career in Wales compared to that which they could pursue in England.

In December, I welcomed the publication of the Law Commission's report, reviewing the law governing the devolved tribunals in Wales. In my written statement, I made it clear that we strongly endorse the fundamental principle of the Law Commission's recommendations for a unified, single, structurally independent system of tribunal in Wales. We are working through the details of the Law Commission's recommendations as we develop our distinctive Welsh policy relating to Welsh tribunals, including judicial offices.

Implementing our policy for reform of the devolved tribunals will of course require primary legislation. However, the provisions in the Bill we are debating today and the changes to the mandatory retirement age and sitting in retirement arrangements for judicial office holders can be made and implemented sooner than would be the case if we were to defer the changes to our future legislation in response to the Law Commission's report. I consider that the provisions of the Bill that are the subject of the memorandum fall within the legislative competence of the Senedd and, accordingly, I recommend that Members agree the motion and provide the Senedd's consent to those Bill provisions.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I've only got a few comments to make, and I'm only making them because this is quite an interesting one that is in front of us here. We reported on this memorandum on 3 November 2021, and we don't have any recommendations in our report, but two observations that should be of interest to the Senedd in terms of legislative competence.

So, we note and agree with the Welsh Government's assessment of the provisions within the Bill that require the Senedd's consent. We also note that the Bill includes provisions that modify the Welsh Ministers' functions, but in a way—as the Counsel General has described—that is actually outside the legislative competence of the Senedd, and as such—and it interests us as a committee—consent is not required for those clauses. Instead, Standing Order 30 requires the Welsh Government to lay a written statement before the Senedd. This is slightly unusual and you can see why we're excited as a committee about this appearing here on the floor of the Senedd.

So, we do note, our report notes, that the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership laid such a statement on 12 August 2021 in respect of the Bill, and since we reported, we note that further statements have been laid in accordance with Standing Order 30, as the Counsel General has indicated.

So, diolch yn fawr iawn, Counsel General, diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd; it's something to note for other Members.

There are no other speakers, so I call on the Counsel General to reply to the debate.

I thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their detailed consideration of what is a very technical piece of legislation and, of course, the reference that he made was with regard to certain changes and amendments that were made that apply to the firefighters' pension provisions, which were the result of legislative action, which I think ended up in the Supreme Court with regard to certain equality issues.

Just to conclude, really: the provisions of the Bill are there about providing flexibility to meet the business needs of the courts and tribunals, and I think they do lead constructively into what I hope will be future legislation in respect of the implementation of the recommendations of the Law Commission with regard to Welsh tribunals. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, therefore I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.