7. Statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language: Cymraeg 2050 — The next steps

– in the Senedd at 4:42 pm on 1 March 2022.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:42, 1 March 2022

(Translated)

We move to item 7, a statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language on 'Cymraeg 2050', the next steps. Jeremy Miles to make the statement.

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd. Today, I present the annual report on our language strategy, 'Cymraeg 2050: A million Welsh speakers', for the 2020-21 financial year, the final year of our previous Government.

Before I start today, I’d like to pay tribute to Aled Roberts, the Welsh Language Commissioner. Aled took every opportunity to inspire and support those who needed help and advice. A gracious, kind and honest man, losing Aled is a great blow to everyone who knew him and to the whole of Wales.

It was a challenging year for us all, with COVID-19 a presence throughout the reporting year, and all of us having to learn to adapt our ways of life—at home, at work and within our communities. Because of this, there have been some changes to our normal arrangements in terms of collecting and publishing data, and that’s why there has been a delay in publishing this year’s report.

Many challenges beset the Welsh language, as with all areas of Government work, during the year, but there were also various opportunities to experiment and innovate. I must thank our partners across the whole of Wales for their willingness to adapt and their enthusiasm to venture into new areas: Eisteddfod T and Eisteddfod AmGen were held for the first time, we published our 'Welsh Language Transmission and Use in Families' policy, we consulted on our policy on Welsh linguistic infrastructure, and a consultation on proposals to introduce new categories to describe schools according to their Welsh-medium provision was also held.

Yes, this was a difficult year at times, but it was also a productive year, and you can see the full details in the report itself. And although an annual report is a chance to look back, I’m also going to look forward today, just as I did during my recent speech on Anglesey, when I shared my vision for our language, whilst noting 60 years since the delivery of the 'Tynged yr Iaith' lecture. I was pleased to start today by announcing which projects will receive a share of the £30 million of capital funding to expand Welsh-medium education. I was also pleased to announce that we will allocate an additional £1.2 million to the Urdd, so that the organisation can continue to rebuild post COVID and to ensure continuity for its community services and apprenticeships.

This is the first time that we've come together to discuss our language since announcing the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru. I'm pleased to say that I've already started on the work with Cefin Campbell, and I'm confident that our joint approach will prove productive. Our aim, of course, is to reach a million Welsh speakers and to double the daily use of our language by 2050. And this aim remains a constant in all parts of our work as we deliver a wide range of interventions to reach our goal. Not every intervention will work in every part of Wales, and every intervention must be tailored to the individual circumstances. So, as we move on our journey towards a million Welsh speakers, it's important that we hear, listen and learn from the experiences of those who live in our communities across Wales, those who are beginning their language journey or those who haven't had Welsh as part of their daily routine for a while. 

And as I talk about listening to people, the online consultation on our Welsh language communities housing plan has just been completed. I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to respond, and I'm looking forward to discussing this with Dr Simon Brooks and the new commission that we're setting up to examine how we will deliver the recommendations that come in its wake.

I've spoken in depth about communities over the past few weeks, about the idea of working with local communities to help them to create co-operative movements—organisations working in the community, for the benefit of the community and giving back to the community, empowering communities, creating local opportunities for local people to succeed locally, and being led by the reality of the linguistic situation in different parts of Wales. 

I want everything that I do as Minister for the Welsh language to be based on maintaining or increasing the use of our language. You will recall that increasing the use of Welsh runs through all of our plans for this Senedd term. 'Welsh is for using, not just for service provision'. That's what I said in my speech a few weeks ago, and that's what I'm saying again today. You'll have seen the recent joint announcement with Plaid Cymru regarding how we'll be working with the National Centre for Learning Welsh to provide free Welsh lessons to the education workforce, both teachers and assistants, from September onwards. We're doing the same for young people under 25, creating a second chance for many to continue on their Welsh language journey. And I'm looking forward to chatting with some of these young people as they learn or renew their relationship with our language.

The census results are on their way over the coming months—and no, I don't know the figures; they're not shared before publication. But by the summer, we will know how many people in Wales can speak Welsh—can speak our language, not use our language, and we're back to that word, 'use'. The census doesn't measure use, but the figures are important, of course, as they provide useful data on our language across the whole of Wales, and there is obviously a clear connection between the numbers who can speak the language and its use.

Something else that you'll have heard me say over the past few months is that Welsh belongs to us all, and I'll carry on saying that. It's an important message and one I believe in strongly. It's part of what makes us us, and there is a responsibility on all of us to come together in this Senedd and across the whole of Wales to ensure the future of our language. And we must also remember that everyone has a part to play, everyone has a voice, and Cymraeg belongs to us all.

Photo of Samuel Kurtz Samuel Kurtz Conservative

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd, and happy St David's Day to you, to the Minister and to the whole of the Chamber. I'd like to start by thanking the Minister for bringing forward this statement today, and I refer Members to my register of interests. I would also like to associate myself with the Minister's heartfelt words on the death of Aled Roberts. Let's hope that one of the gifts that Aled leaves us is to see the language that he loved prosper. 

The Welsh language is a crucial part of our culture, our history and our heritage, and over the past week we have seen how easily these three national foundations can be eroded, attacked and broken. A nation's identity is based on its culture, its people and, of course, its language. I see the Cymraeg 2050 policy as part of a range of initiatives that will not only strengthen our identity here in Wales, but will also strengthen our unique place as part of the UK.

With this statement given on St David's Day, it would be erroneous of me not to note the celebration of our patron saint today, a man from west Wales who was recognised by the Pope over 1,900 years ago. Dewi Sant lived a godly life, and celebrating St David's Day is something that unites us here in Wales. The language is an aspect of our culture that adds value to our nation, and the Cymraeg 2050 strategy plays an important role in safeguarding and developing the language for future generations. Given the longevity of the Cymraeg 2050 strategy, opportunities to scrutinise the Government are crucial to ensure that outcomes are achieved and targets are achieved. 

The Minister will be aware of my concerns about accountability in this programme, particularly as it's likely that nobody in this Government will be accountable in the year 2050. That's why this opportunity is so important, and I certainly welcome this detailed annual report that I read with great interest. I was very pleased to see the Minister recognising the important work of our voluntary organisations, and how they work within communities in order to promote and develop the Welsh language. As chair of Pembrokeshire young farmers club, I have seen how valuable the Welsh language is to our communities, particularly our young people. But the Welsh Government mustn't rely on third sector organisations alone to do the work for them. Wales has great potential, and we can develop our young people into bilingual or even trilingual speakers so that we can also work on the international stage. 

Indeed, given this, I would like to draw your attention to my concern about the historic path in terms of those studying at year 11 who are registered to take part in first-language and second-language Welsh GCSE. In the past 12 years, the percentage of year 11 learners who have taken first-language Welsh GCSE has increased only by 3 per cent, a figure that doesn't accord with the Welsh Government's narrative or words. And although I'm pleased to see that the percentage taking the full Welsh GCSE as a second language has increased significantly, I do have concern about the appropriateness of this qualification. If this second-language course sees learners just learning simple phrases and don't develop a deeper understanding of the language, then when it comes to professions in later life, such as education, they could be disadvantaged. 

But this isn't my only concern. I know of cases where first-language Welsh speakers have chosen to take second-language GCSE courses just to strengthen their chances of getting an A or an A* grade. Now, Minister, as you know, you have my full support for this policy. Yes, it's ambitious, but I support the intentions. With the best will in the world, you won't be Minister for Welsh language when this scheme comes to an end in the year 2050, and that is why it is so important that we do keep a critical eye on how it develops. I hope that my contribution today will be taken in the spirit intended, as a critical friend, because it's only through working and changing course, when and if that's needed, will this policy succeed. Thank you. 

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 4:54, 1 March 2022

(Translated)

Could I thank Samuel Kurtz for the constructive way in which he dealt with the question, and the fact that he reminds us how short-lived ministerial careers can be. [Laughter.] So, I thank you greatly for that.

But Samuel Kurtz made some very important points at the outset of his contribution, namely that we need accountability and an opportunity for Members and external bodies to be able to scrutinise the Government's work, and I accept that that is vital. That's what this statement is and what this report is. It sets out the targets, and it shows clearly where we are meeting the targets, and where we need to do more work to tackle those challenges that are more long term, and it offers opportunities and gives you a basis for scrutinising that. So, I do welcome that and the Government does welcome that.

The point that you finished on is important as well, namely that the landscape that the language lives in is changing constantly. We've seen a great change over the 60 years since 'Tynged yr Iaith'. You could argue that communities have been transformed, in terms of the pressures on Welsh-speaking communities, but there are other factors as well. We need to be honest and we need to respond to those changes. And it's important that we learn from what we do—some things succeed and some things fail, and we need to renew our actions in the wake of that information and be brave and honest in the process of doing that. So, I certainly support that theme in the Member's question.

In terms of the qualification—GCSEs—he will know that Qualifications Wales is looking into this at present. It's a very important subject. The second-language period is coming to an end. We don't want to discuss the Welsh language as a first-language and second-language concept. I finished my statement saying that the language belongs to everyone. What I want to see, and I'm sure that there is broad support for this, is one linguistic continuum where everyone knows that they are on a journey and everyone's on the same journey, but, perhaps, at different stages on that same pathway. That's very important, I think. We want to see our education system allowing us to create confident bilingual speakers, but the truth is that people are starting from different places on that pathway. That's a reality in our communities and where the language is.

But the idea that underpins the policy of providing free lessons for people until they're 25 is providing as many opportunities as possible and ensuring that people can take advantage of those opportunities, either to restart or start learning. So, there is work to do to understand where qualifications and education for adults lie on the linguistic continuum, and it is important work that needs to be done. 

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru 4:57, 1 March 2022

(Translated)

Thank you, Minister, for that statement. I'd like to endorse your tribute to Aled Roberts. I attended the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly with Sam Kurtz over the past few days, and I have to say that there were so many heartfelt tributes across the two islands—people who had met Aled when he'd given evidence before them in 2019 and who admire what we do here in Wales. But, specifically, he himself had made a huge impression on them and it encouraged other Governments to consider how they could take action and how they could emulate some of the excellent things that he was leading, and it was good to see that recognised.

In terms of this report, it's interesting to look back at 2020-21, and some of the challenges come through in this report. But, certainly, the next report is the one that will give us an overview in terms of the impact of the pandemic on the Welsh language. Certainly, I'm a huge fan of infographics, and there are wonderful stories being told in the inforgraphics on the plan, in terms of the numbers involved with online learning in terms of learning Welsh. We know of the numbers using Duolingo, and that desire is there for some people, having more time at home, to become involved with the language, and that's to be welcomed. 

But at the other extreme, you have those challenges with young learners. I know that in the area that I represent, in Rhondda Cynon Taf, where it is a huge challenge, in terms of the target to reach a million Welsh speakers, we see the impact of the pandemic already, with parents making that difficult choice to remove their children from Welsh-medium education because they saw that, perhaps, they'd fallen behind, they were concerned about their development and so on.

At the moment, not all councils consistently measure why an individual leaves Welsh-medium education and what the reasons for that are. In the past, we've discussed the need to understand that better so that we can know how we can intervene. I think that one of the major challenges for us, in terms of having an ambitious target, is to understand why, if you've made that choice of Welsh-medium education, you don't continue with that pathway. We need to understand that, I think.

Certainly, it's all quite anecdotal at the moment. There are a number of inconsistencies that I've also discussed with you in the past, in terms of access to Welsh-medium education. It's one thing to have a right, but the idea of access is extremely important. If you can't also access breakfast clubs or after-school clubs, if that Welsh-medium school isn't within walking distance and if your parents or carers don't have a car to take you to that school, then there are significant challenges. That's one of the things with the twenty-first century school model and the new campuses. Yes, there are huge investments, but there are still problems in terms of consistency of access. The same is true in terms of immersion and additional learning needs. There isn't equality at the moment. And yes, I agree with you: yes, we could form a recitation group stating that the Welsh language belongs to everyone. That's something that everyone seemed to be nodding to in terms of Eisteddfod T and Amgen and so on and so forth. But it is something that we need to say, and say in English, and mean too. It's one thing that it belongs to everyone, but everyone needs to have a real right to become engaged with the language in the way of their choice.

I endorse Sam Kurtz's points in terms of the announcement made by Qualifications Wales on the two different qualifications—I welcome it. There are so many things in the agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru that will work towards the target of 1 million Welsh speakers, but this idea of a continuum is so hugely important, and one of the things that I would like to know is—. I share the concerns in terms of this rebranding. I did welcome seeing that Qualifications Wales had stated that the second qualification was for English-medium schools, but there will still be two qualifications in existence. So, does the Minister believe that the changes announced in the recent announcement on GCSEs will help to achieve the aim of one continuum for learning and assessment? If two separate qualifications are put in place, then we must show the overlap between the two and remove this glass ceiling and allow pupils to reach the higher level whatever the linguistic context of the school.

Another huge challenge is in terms of recruitment for the education workforce. We saw Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin telling us that, despite the successes that they are having, there are huge challenges facing them in terms of accessing enough staff, and this is also true of ALN and so on. So, what exactly is the new ambition in terms of the education workforce? How many additional teachers do we need for the Welsh-medium sector and by when, if we are to meet the targets of Cymraeg 2050? Why wait until the Welsh language education Act when a 10-year plan is being prepared at the moment?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 5:02, 1 March 2022

(Translated)

I thank Heledd Fychan for the range of questions. I'll try my best to answer them as best I can. In terms of the challenge that COVID has posed, she is right to say that that has meant that some experiences have been positive—that is, people learning Welsh for the first time—but also challenges in terms of some deciding to take their children out of Welsh education. The picture is quite inconsistent, I would say, across Wales. There are positive examples, as well as the examples that were less positive that the Member mentioned.

The work that we invested in in terms of re-immersion and the work that RhAG is doing with us is tackling how we can ensure that that doesn't happen and that parents can continue with their commitment to the Welsh language for their children. I do accept the point that you make in terms of data gathering on decisions. That's part of the work that we're looking at at present. 

In terms of the broader question of equity of access to the Welsh language, I do agree with that aim. That is the purpose of the Welsh-medium education Bill that we have in the pipeline. We will be working with Plaid Cymru on that. The geographical element is very important to that. Numbers are important, in terms of scrutiny and in terms of reaching the aim, but the geographical element is also important in terms of where the provision is and where the communities that need the schools are. Transport is an element of that as well.

In terms of the final point, in terms of the qualification, it's easy to say—if I can put it this way—that we need to get rid of the second language qualification and that we want one qualification, but what does that mean on the ground? I have heard people say, 'Well, maybe you have a joint qualification for everyone, and then a different element that corresponds with the different levels of skills.' At the end of the day, you have two qualifications in that world as well. So, the important thing is the point that you made, that there isn't a ceiling on your ability to learn Welsh. It is a part of the current plan of Qualifications Wales to have an additional qualification in English-medium schools where it's possible to go beyond GCSE, if you like, in the school. I think that that is a very interesting idea for us to examine, to ensure that there is progression for people doing the new GCSE.

In terms of the numbers, you asked, ‘Why wait til the Bill?’ And the positive answer is that we're not waiting til the Bill. The work has been ongoing with stakeholders on looking at a draft plan and we’ll be discussing that further with you. We need to be creative, I think, in terms of how we attract people to the profession and keep them in the profession, and what are the incentives for doing that, and what's the process of providing support early enough in the school journey so that young people think about teaching through the medium of Welsh as a pathway to an interesting and exciting career. So, there are lots of creative, exciting things that we can do, but it is a challenge; it isn't possible to force people to make that choice. We had 5,000, I think, more or less, teachers who can teach through the medium of Welsh, and we needed 5,500 for this year, so we're short of the target, but it is a challenging situation.

You talked about the 10-year plan. Well, we have the strategic 10-year plans, but we need a 10-year recruitment plan that corresponds to that, and that's the work that we're looking forward to doing with you collaboratively.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 5:06, 1 March 2022

(Translated)

Like others, I would like to start my contribution this afternoon by saying a few words about Aled Roberts. Llywydd, you and many Members here will recall his contributions in this Chamber, and I recall him speaking clearly and bringing people together. One of the things that Aled could do was unite people, create an idea and bring people together around that idea. I know that, when I started as Minister for the Welsh language, Aled was one of the first people I would approach for advice, and I know that everyone across the Chamber would want to extend our sympathies to Aled’s family and recognise the loss to us as a nation and to recognise Aled’s contribution.

I welcome this afternoon’s statement, Minister, and I welcome the tone that you've adopted since you were appointed to this post. I think it's very important. When I set the target of a million Welsh speakers, I was very clear in my own mind that that was a million Welsh people who can use the Welsh language, a million people who can speak and enjoy the Welsh language, not just a million people who can get through an exam on a Wednesday afternoon and then forget all about it later—a million people who can enjoy our language and enjoy our culture, and that's extremely important.

The question I'd like to pose to you this afternoon, Minister, is one on promotion. When I was learning Welsh, there were concerts in Blaendyffryn—the Llywydd will remember these too—and that did more for me in terms of promoting the Welsh language, enjoying the Welsh language, than any lessons that I attended. I didn't have lessons in school, but that's a different issue.

But we have to create the opportunity where people can enjoy the Welsh language, and where the Welsh language isn't the language of the classroom, but the language of people's daily lives. And I wonder, Minister, how we can achieve that. I do become concerned that we've wasted too much time, too much energy and too much resource on creating standards that generated bureaucracy, rather than promoting the fact that we can enjoy our language, and I think that's extremely important.

The final point that I would like to make is to ask about the place of the Welsh language in the digital world. When I speak to Alexa at home, I speak in English with her—or him or whatever—and if I use the Welsh language, then of course Alexa won't understand me. And we all know that, as technology develops, this idea of voice-controlled technology will become more and more prominent. So, Minister, in the vision that you clearly have, in terms of the way that you have been operating, where is the future of the Welsh language in the technical world? How will we ensure that we have the structures in place within Government to promote the Welsh language and to reach out from the Wales of today to create the new Welsh-speaking Wales?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 5:09, 1 March 2022

(Translated)

I thank Alun Davies for those questions and of course for his fundamental work in stating this policy during his time as Minister for the Welsh language. I do agree entirely with him in terms of how important is not just the ability, but, of course, the question of use as well. The annual inspections that we look at show that people who state that they are Welsh-language users are much higher than those in the census, but, as he'll know, the census is the criteria for the policy since the Welsh Government inherited that back in 2012. So, the question of Welsh-language use is vital to everything I want to do as a Minister.

In terms of promotion, I mentioned this morning the investment that we are making in Welsh-medium education, but also the investment that we're making in Urdd activities, trying to help them to create a broader network of officials and developing apprenticeships in disadvantaged communities through the medium of Welsh, so, things that assist in normalising the Welsh language in social settings outside the classroom, and that's vital to this as well.

In terms of the broader question of promotion, I'd say that promotion is a general term, but there are many things that are happening within that. Part of it is advice to business, part of it is creating single-language spaces, empowerment of communities through the work of co-operatives and so forth, technology—I'll come back to that in a minute—and also behavioural aspects. People who can speak the Welsh language don't use it—why? What can we do to encourage them to do so? Transmission, training leaders, outreach with communities of refugees to learn Welsh and so forth—all of these are elements in that process of promotion. But, in looking at the individual elements, it draws attention to the fact that the responsibility for those things are with a number of bodies. So, it is vital, I think, in terms of transparency and people seeing their responsibility, that we do look at those elements individually.

The final question is an interesting one in terms of what we're doing in the area of technology, and I think that, after the two years that we've had, we see clearly what the challenges are in terms of using Microsoft Teams and Zoom and so forth. But I can offer some comfort to him in saying that we are collaborating with Microsoft in order to ensure that the ability to use interpretation through Teams is available. We've been doing that for some time and we've been waiting for that for a while. We do know that an interpretation function will be released in March or April, and Microsoft will add to that over time. We've also been in discussions with a variety of other technology companies to see what more they can do to ensure that the Welsh language has its deserved place in their provision, because we know that there's an important opportunity for us there.