The next item is a debate on the Equality and Social Justice Committee report, 'Minding the future: The childcare barrier facing working parents'. And I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion, Jenny Rathbone.

Motion NDM7970 Jenny Rathbone

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the Equality and Social Justice Committee report ‘Minding the future: The childcare barrier facing working parents’, laid on 28 January 2022.

Motion moved.

Diolch. Access to good, affordable childcare is key to happier, healthier lives and a stronger, fairer, more productive economy. The lack of affordable childcare is one of the main drivers of the gender pay gap that is persistently seen. As we saw during the pandemic, it was assumed that women would pick up the pieces when schools closed, and that is exactly what happened. We know that women were left juggling their role as teacher as well as cook, bottle washers, and trying to hold down a paid job. Our report points to a range of actions that can be taken to improve awareness of the support that is available to parents, strengthen the workforce and learn from the best practice of other nations. I want to thank stakeholders who contributed to this work, both from within Wales and internationally, including the parents and front-line childcare workers, some of whom I believe are in the gallery this afternoon. I also want to thank the excellent research and clerking staff who supported our inquiry.

It is noteable that significant numbers of families do not know what they are entitled to. And when you look at the latest Coram Family and Childcare annual survey of all British authorities, you can hardly be surprised, because less than half our local authorities have enough childcare for even the free early education entitlements that children should be getting. So, it's not surprising that local authorities are not bending over backwards to tell people about provision that doesn't actually exist. The Bevan Foundation reported that even awareness of the 10 hours of universal provision for three- and four-year-olds is low. And our focus group participants expressed varying degrees of awareness about the scope and eligibility criteria of both Flying Start and the childcare offer. It's quite a confusing picture, therefore.

We're pleased that the Government has accepted in principle our recommendation for how we can rectify this situation. We suggested that this could include writing to new parents, or promoting the support that's available when registering the birth. The Minister has put a lot of emphasis on the information that's available from each local authority's family information service, and we look forward to the refresh of the online 'Choosing Childcare' booklet that you've commissioned, which is due out later this year. But we do know that online information isn't sufficient to reach all families about their child's entitlement. And the family information service itself is excellent in that it provides information about stay and play provision, which is just as important in the very early days of parenthood, but it really doesn't flash up in golden lights exactly what is available as a child's entitlement. 

It's very good to know that Flying Start teams are required to have other strategies for engaging with families and are expected to outline these as part of their annual plans, and I think that's a very important thing. But, unfortunately, you also say in your response that Flying Start itself is going to be using more social media platforms to communicate key messages to Flying Start families, and that's fine for some, but I fear that it won't reach the most disadvantaged. 

Turning to the Welsh Government's childcare offer, originally it was focused only on families where both parents—or, in a single-parent household, that parent—are working over 16 hours a week. So, we very much welcome the extension to parents who are in education, training or on the edge of work, and particularly your acceptance of our recommendation that children's rights impact assessments and equality impact assessments need to be carried out and that they will be published at least a month before any changes in the provision are going to be going live.

I hope that that will assist all public authorities to address how, for example, people who are working atypical hours, such as shift workers, are going to be able to benefit from the childcare offer, because this largely low-paid section of the workforce have largely been excluded from benefitting from the childcare offer as the market has yet to provide for this level of complexity. You've put the onus on local authorities to address this as part of their childcare sufficiency assessments, and I've no doubt the committee will look with great interest at the detail of those in due course to see whether they really address that particular concern.

During our inquiry, we heard from experts in Scotland and Sweden, and it's really important that we all learn from the best as a way of driving up the quality of our provision and our standards across the sector, so that it is not just a programme for getting more parents back into work more quickly, but a crucial vehicle for narrowing the attainment gap.

The Welsh Government, and the Deputy Minister in particular, hugely value the learning through play curriculum for early years and key stage 1, but I feel that nowhere are the pedagogical skills more important than in the very early years. This is the most difficult group of children to teach, and therefore we need the very best teachers in this field. So, we're very pleased that the Government has accepted our recommendation about the crucial role that community-focused schools can play, improving the consistency and quality of the provision across the childcare sector. 

It is terribly confusing for the child who at the moment has to be carted between up to three separate locations to cover the hours that their parent works, and parents themselves who took part in our consultations expressed confusion about the difference between early education and childcare. It seems to me that community-focused schools can really make a difference in ensuring that the whole community of offer is all good.

And I think there's quite a lot of cultural change that needs to go on as a result of this, because the National Association of Head Teachers tweeted that childcare should be kept out of schools in response to our report, which was a truly astonishing disregard for the role that quality, comprehensive childcare plays in narrowing the gap in attainment caused by poverty. They cannot be surprised that children turn up in school aged three with only three or four words if they don't pay attention to what childcare they're getting before they start mainstream school. 

This is definitely not about schools taking over the valued role played by the private and the community nurseries, but I would be grateful if the Deputy Minister in her response could clarify how we are going to raise the capacity and capability of the whole of the childcare sector, which is largely dominated by these private and voluntary organisations, and that's particularly important when it comes to additional learning needs.

We had a really harrowing piece of evidence from somebody whose autistic child was simply not able to get any support at all during the time of lockdown because the key workers were told that the provision needed to close, and it seems to me that that sort of person, that sort of family needs, above all, to have been given much greater consideration. So, I think that it would be really helpful to hear a little bit more about how we're going to do that, because for a family with a disabled child, they don't want to be carting their child across some distance in order to be able to get the level of provision that child requires. We need that child to be able to get the same provision as the other children who they're playing with in daily life and not have to go somewhere special. They need to be integrated from the start.

I'd be grateful if you could tell us what progress has been made in taking forward the joint working by Estyn and Care Inspectorate Wales on the childcare provision and whether there's a greater role for Estyn in really ensuring that all childcare provision has the support of suitably qualified people in designing the curriculum, particularly for children with additional needs.

And lastly, I just want to say that we need a childcare sector that reflects the population. So, there's a great deal more work to do to ensure that people from different communities are encouraged to take up this important job in childcare, and the way in which we reward our workforce and show that we value this important work is something that we really all need to address, because, as one of our contributors said,

'We're on zero hour contracts and we're minding the future.'

So, pay and professionalisation of the sector are key to the child-focused and family-focused society we all seek.

Thank you to the Equality and Social Justice Committee for bringing forward today's report. You may be a little surprised to see me speaking on this item today, but I must say, I had the pleasure of attending two of the committee's meetings on behalf of my good friend and colleague over recent months, and I enjoyed the committee's work, carried out regarding parental employment and childcare—this specific issue. I'm sure the committee enjoyed my attendance there as well, at times. [Laughter.]

But, as we know, childcare and parental employment has been an issue for a number of years and been brought to light, certainly, through the COVID-19 pandemic. As access to affordable and flexible childcare is often cited, as shared already through the report, by many parents as one of the main barriers preventing them from working or progressing further in their careers—and my wife and I certainly have experienced this with our three children, who are under the age of 10—there's the challenge that can take place for working parents.

Before I jump into some of the points that jumped out to me in the report and the committee's work on this, just a thought going through my mind while the report was being presented is I do wonder, sometimes, whether we're missing a trick with multigenerational care. I always remember the story, in my former life, my former job, I had a new boss who came over on secondment from Hyderabad in India, and he couldn't get over the way that we deal with care, childcare, caring for our elderly, compared to some of the cultural ways that his tradition would use. I do wonder sometimes whether we're missing a trick with the grandparent-grandchild relationship that can take place and the support that we provide there across multiple generations. That's an aside, I suppose.

But in terms of the report and the points that jumped out to me, as cited, during the committee's evidence, many parents simply aren't aware of what childcare support is actually available to them, particularly available to new parents, and I experienced this around nine years ago. It's really important, in my view, that Welsh Government do work more closely with local authorities, in particular, and health boards and relevant organisations to improve this awareness and provide further information to parents, so they can use a number of the fantastic options that are out there, and it's crucial that childcare and support are targeted, certainly, at families that need it, and we try and avoid this postcode lottery that can happen from time to time.

Secondly, in terms of the co-operation agreement of the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru, there's clearly some provision in there to improve and expand the free childcare to two-year-olds, particularly focused on providing strengthened Welsh-medium childcare, and I'd certainly welcome that from this side of the benches. These are items we've been calling for for a long time as well and it's good to see progress in that area.

Finally, I think it's clear from the committee's engagement that all efforts need to be made to encourage people from all backgrounds, as just highlighted by the Chair there, to consider a career in childcare. I know, for example, my wife worked in this area for a short time and it would be good to see a broader mix of people involved in that professional childcare and children being able to see different types of people looking after them over the series of their life, I suppose.

So, to conclude, I'd like to put on record my thanks to the whole of the committee for producing this really important piece of work on childcare and the positive outcomes that it will have. I also thank the organisations and public bodies and all sorts of bodies that provided evidence to help the committee with their recommendations. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

I'm pleased to contribute to this debate as Plaid Cymru's spokesperson on equality and social justice and also as a committee member. A few weeks ago, we marked International Women's Day and discussed here in the Chamber the annual Chwarae Teg 'State of the Nation' report. That report revealed that we have a long way to go in terms of gender equality.

When the committee asked our witnesses what would make the most difference in terms of closing the gender pay gap and the inequalities that disproportionately affect women, families and children, while improving opportunities for women in the workplace and in society more generally, the answer was universal free childcare, and that should be available from one year old, if not younger. That would not only tackle gender inequality, but it would also deal with tackling poverty and disadvantage; good for mothers and parents, but most importantly, perhaps, good for children too. That's the ideal, the gold standard.

One research paper after another has pointed to that as something that we should aspire to, and that was confirmed, I think, by the evidence that is reflected in the committee's report. It's encouraging, therefore, that since we as a committee decided on the topic of our inquiry that the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru has ensured some progress towards that aim of expanding childcare to all two-year-olds as a first step.

One of the main messages of the report, which I hope will influence this important work, was, as we've heard, the lack of awareness, the difficulty in trying to find out what kind of care was available where, for what age group, for how many hours. In their evidence, the Women's Equality Network Wales shared with us that 67 per cent of the respondents to their survey had said that they needed more accessible and transparent information on the childcare provisions available. This was echoed by our focus groups in terms of their awareness of the childcare offer and Flying Start.

The picture painted was of patchy and inconsistent provision. A postcode lottery was described, where provision is not equal for all families and doesn't meet the needs of all children in all parts of Wales, and the inadequacies in terms of Welsh-medium provision and for children with additional learning needs clearly emerged as problems.

As they have accepted many of the committee's recommendations, and following the statement made last week, jointly with the Plaid Cymru designated Member, Siân Gwenllian, on the expansion of Flying Start, I would like to understand from the Deputy Minister what her vision is in terms of how we can deliver this aim of expanding childcare, bearing in mind what the report tells us of the challenges that need to be addressed in ensuring that. What part does the expansion of Flying Start play in the broader plans to enhance free childcare to all children of two years old? What's the plan in terms of expanding and developing the workforce and the provision that we need? And how will the Government secure improved access to clear and more accessible information for parents and a more streamlined childcare pathway for all, in all parts of Wales? 

Differences in access, availability and quality of childcare for different social groups reinforces inequality and outcomes between these groups, which is why universal, high-quality childcare access is so important when trying to create a prosperous Wales, without child poverty, where children of all backgrounds get the best start in life.

It is thought that children from the poorest families are already 10 months behind those from better off backgrounds in terms of development by the time they turn three. Not only does increasing the provision of childcare improve outcomes for the most vulnerable children in our society, but also it reduces in-work and more general poverty rates across Wales.

The need for improved childcare provision has been highlighted by the current cost-of-living crisis, and only exacerbated by stagnating wages in Wales. As we've highlighted many times in this place, the energy prices, the fuel prices, the food prices, the tax hikes, the inflation and the despicable decision by the UK Government to cut the uplift in universal credit and not to increase benefits in line with inflation will mean that the economic storm hitting our nation will hit the poorest in our society the hardest, and families with children, especially, having to choose between heating their homes or having a decent meal. Three in 10 households with an income less than £40,000 a year have seen their income drop since May 2021. Implementing the recommendations of this report quickly, efficiently and wholeheartedly will help slow the impact of this crisis while safeguarding future generations.

I am pleased that the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru begins to tackle some of the issues raised in the committee's report. However, this should inspire progress and not be seen as the end to the problem, as we push for universal childcare for all, to improve outcomes for children, create opportunities for parents, especially women, to access or return to work and education. Diolch.

I'm very pleased to rise and speak briefly in this debate, and also to thank the committee for their work and for continuing their attention on this really critical area of social policy, because it's undoubtedly the case—it almost goes without saying, but I'm darn well going to say it—if we get the investment right in the early years provision, in a coherent, unified system of early years provision, then we will transform life opportunities and we do have to build on what we've got there.

I want to start by looking at that and touching on this issue of how we will get to the place we want to be, with a proper unified, coherent early childhood education and care system that goes from the very early years all the way through, with this continuum. And, in fact, that is what was spelt out a couple of years ago when Welsh Government launched its ambition. I note in the letter at that point to Lynne Neagle, who now is a Minister, but was then chairing the same committee, that Julie Morgan wrote to Lynne, saying our ECEC aim is to create a single, high-quality, child-centred approach to early childhood education and care across Wales, one which recognises the value of both early education and childcare, drawing the best of both together in one single experience, with parents able to access services in Welsh, English or bilingually. Now, that's absolutely the ambition and it set a 10-year pathway to do it. Well, we're three and a half years now on from that moment, with that letter.

I do pay, genuinely, a compliment to Welsh Government for trying to build on the framework we have, but we were talking about this three, four, five years ago and more. We do have Flying Start in Wales, and it does a tremendous job, but it doesn't reach every child that Flying Start needs to get to. We do have a very good working-parent focus, although now extended to parents also seeking skills and training or higher education, which extends the childcare offer for three and four-year-olds, but it doesn't go to everybody, so it doesn't deal with that universality.

And, as has rightly being remarked on this, the problem that we have is, when you have something that is this complex mix of supply-and-demand-side approaches from UK and Welsh Government, the ones that tend to lose out are those who find it too complex to navigate, those from disadvantaged areas. And we can absolutely see the graphs that go back years that show in places like Merthyr and Blaenau Gwent and Ogmore, in contrast to Bridgend, for example—north to south of the motorway—the difference in childcare provision, where there's no advantage to childcare and early years providers to open up in areas where there is economic disadvantage. So, we really need to pull some of these together.

So, I'm asking the Minister today to give us an idea how far we've progressed on the development of this single, unified, coherent, ECEC structure. We were never going to do it overnight, but this report, once again, has fleshed out how much further we've got to go. We are building on a sector that is diverse and complex in its provision. We still have a situation where, for three and four-year-olds, it goes from areas and local authorities where there are wholly maintained sectors, like Neath Port Talbot, to other areas, like Monmouth, where non-maintained diverse independent providers dominate this scenario. How do you develop a unified, single, coherent ECEC structure when you have that sort of provision? The lack of incentive to invest in disadvantaged areas means that places like Merthyr are still losing out significantly, and anywhere, if you like, north of the snow line. 

Flying Start isn't everywhere. The means-tested, supply-side approach in Wales, contrasting with the market-driven demand side in England, is really a complex framework. Anybody would have difficulty in navigating this, even with the local authorities providing advice. You've got to have the confidence to go there and then work out what's best for you. Then we have multiple aims in Government. Is this to do with the child's rights-based approach, a child-focused, child-centred approach, or is it to do with tackling disadvantage, or many, many other things, or providing economic opportunities? Actually, it's all of these, but, first and foremost, let's get the narrative clear, let's get the coherent picture, which needs to focus on—. All of the countries that have done this have done it best with a unified vision, one that clearly says, 'The child is at the centre of it, but we're also going to do x, y and z.' That's where we need to be. So, let me just sum up with some questions for the Minister—. And we've got the issue of costs as well. We are probably double or more, throughout the UK, the costs that people should be paying for it.

So, Minister, how close are we to getting to those unified principles for a unified ECEC approach, with children's rights at the top? Can we end the distinction between education and care? Even with these diverse providers, can we end that distinction? Because there's still too much of it out there. Can we establish a clear curriculum, which is also age appropriate and also has play right at its centre, in an age-appropriate way, but a clear curriculum so that there's consistency amongst all providers? Can we put that unified approach on ECEC under a unified—I just ask the question—department, a unified Minister, not split across Government departments? And can we end the ECEC gaps in provision? We're not going to do it all overnight. We're only a third of the way in, which means we've got two thirds of the way to go of this decade to actually change it. And I say this as a former Minister who had the privilege of covering this for the very short period I was Minister. I had some great officials who were putting work into this. It's starting to happen, let's go the whole hog. 

As a non-committee member, I just want to make a short contribution. I am a single working mother of two boys, and so I wanted to just say how much I welcome the fact that you are looking into this. I want to thank Jenny and the committee for making this a priority, because it is something that affected not only me, but it affects many, many of us throughout Wales. I have first-hand experience and know what the challenges are that working parents face day in, day out. 

I chose to take a few years out of work with my first child as a single mother, which was my choice. But, I did find it really difficult to get back into work—although it wasn't through a lack of trying or wanting to—in terms of the career support that was available and obviously the childcare support, with not very much money at all at the time. So, I very much welcome you looking into these sorts of barriers and everything that you've concluded, actually, in this. I want to also welcome, alongside my colleague Sam Rowlands, the free childcare for two-year-olds. It is so important that we have childcare that is affordable, flexible and accessible for all. As has already been said, in those early years, support is absolutely vital. 

As well as rightly looking into the childcare settings themselves, the pandemic obviously has shown that virtual working is such a useful tool for people with children but also those wanting to get back into work after having children. I should declare an interest as a Monmouthshire county councillor. As a former councillor, I wanted to, at the time, as did a councillor just before me, having just had a child—. We asked if we could go virtual in the chamber, and we were told it was too difficult at the time. And yet months later, the pandemic hit and then we were all virtual within seconds, it seemed like. So, were my problems, our problems or our barriers, not important enough? That's the impression that I got. That's the sort of attitude that we're facing, and that's what we need to overcome. I think we need to learn from the pandemic and realise that, in extenuating circumstances, carers with children or elderly relatives should be able to and should have the right to use virtual where needed now, particularly as support for getting back into work after having a child. As it happens, I was in the Chamber two weeks after anyway, but I had really supportive parents. I don't know how people cope that don't have those supportive parents living nearby, and that support network, particularly if you haven't got much money to afford, like around me in Monmouthshire, as was pointed out just now, the largely very expensive private childcare settings.

So, those are just a few things that I wanted to highlight, but I do think that we could set an example and a tone within this Senedd itself. I think in 2003 when I was first an Assembly Member, it was promised that we would have a crèche in the National Assembly for Wales, as the Minister next to you, Jane Hutt, will know. It was 50:50 women and men in this Chamber, and it was recognised that we needed to support our parents and carers with young people coming into politics. It was seen as one of the barriers for many people coming into politics that they couldn't do it with small children, and it's something that we need to overcome. I think it's abhorrent that when I came back in July 2020 expecting to see a crèche here, there wasn't one. I do think that's a shortfall, and we need to set an example and look to establishing a crèche here very soon. It's 20 years on from when it was first promised by this Labour Government, and it's disappointing that it hasn't been done. So, I'd also like your opinions on that please, Minister. Thank you. 

May I thank fellow committee members for their work, and all of those organisations who gave evidence to us as part of our work? 

Thank you also to Sam Rowlands for joining us. Childcare is the most frequently cited barrier for women in work. It is a huge cost for working families, and it's a barrier for parents looking to re-enter the workforce, as we've heard from Laura Anne. That's before you consider the complexity of the arrangements and eligibility criteria that parents and carers need to navigate, as Jenny Rathbone, our Chair, has already highlighted. 

It's really great to hear such a wide range of contributions from the Siambr, but there's one recommendation that I just wanted to focus on, and that's recommendation 2, which is addressing the gap in childcare between the end of maternity leave and eligibility for the childcare offer. That period between maternity and the age of three is crucial for children. Access to good-quality childcare for all children, regardless of their background, is essential if we are to create a brighter future for every child in Wales. 

Currently, the costs and complexity of the arrangements between nine months and school age are disadvantaging many families. In order to currently qualify for the childcare offer, each parent in the household must be working and earning below £100,000 a year. So, a child whose parents have a combined annual income of £99,000 could qualify, but a child from a non-working lone parent family, or a two-parent family where one or both parents do not work, isn't eligible. This cannot be right. A quick search of day nursery places right now across my region shows that the prices are around £800 to £1,000 a month. Evidence from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development shows that increased provision of early years learning and childcare improves a child's attainment in later years, with sustained improvement in lifelong outcomes in health, employment and education.

I want to reiterate the calls that my party has made in the election, and those also made by Chwarae Teg, for universal free childcare for all children from birth to age four, regardless of the employment status of their parents. I believe that this would transform the lives of parents and carers and our economy, and should be an aspiration that this Government holds for every child in Wales. The sooner we recognise childcare, paid parental and carer leave and investment in families as an investment in our economy and our future, the better off we will be. As we have heard, it's important also that children with additional learning needs should have their access to childcare enhanced. Finally, I really welcome this report, and I'm grateful for the work that we were all able to do. I hope we can keep the aspiration for every child and family to have free, good-quality childcare to bring about a more equal, more educated, healthier, more interested and interesting and more economically active Wales. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Let me start by thanking my colleagues and the clerks of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, as well as all of those who the committee consulted to be able to produce this report. As a member of the committee, I wanted to state how crucial it is that, as a society, we prioritise childcare and ensure that nobody's faced with making financial or employment decisions based on the implications of an unequal childcare system.

I must state as well that I welcome the latest news from the Welsh Government on the extension to access to childcare for three and four-year-olds for parents in education and training, as well as those taking adoption leave, and I look forward to progress on the co-operation agreement, which is set to deliver childcare for two-year-olds. But we cannot escape the fact that this news is long overdue. For many parents, often mothers, students, those on low income, those in insecure jobs, childcare is often the single biggest issue that shapes their decisions on how to move forward with their employment, and just for the life choices that they make. I am pleased that the report acknowledges just this. I am often contacted by constituents in Bridgend with stories from parents who just don't know what support is out there, who have felt stuck with the options that are currently available. That is why, as recommended in the report, and highlighted by my colleagues, we must do more to ensure that childcare provision is communicated to parents in the same way that other services are.

This leads me to another recommendation, on filling the gap between the end of maternity leave and the current childcare offer. Chwarae Teg, Arad Research and the Women's Equality Network have brought these experiences to the heart of our report, as well as having engaged directly with childcare providers. The financial reality for many parents is that they are having to cut back on work as they cannot afford childcare, or simply work to fund their child's placement at nursery. We have been talking about childcare provision in Wales, the UK and the western world for over 50 years. Oftentimes, it's talked about as if universal childcare is a sort of utopia, something that can never be achieved, but this is simply not the case. Wales must move to make childcare a service that has equal access for all. The Swedish Gender Equality Agency shows that if we genuinely want gender equality, we must push forward with establishing the pillars of that system. I'd particularly welcome any insight from the Minister about their views on what our ultimate goal is, and how we're going to get there, and their views on the universal free childcare as highlighted by Sioned Williams and the unified approach as raised by Huw Irranca-Davies.

I'm going to end my contribution by highlighting one last recommendation stated within the report, and that is for those working in the childcare sector. Our childcare workers and professionals were on the front line during the pandemic, and are having to face insecure and low-paid work. At the moment we know that there's an increase in COVID in our communities; it's the nurseries that are really being hit by this, with so many children off. I went to visit Cornelly children's centre in my constituency of Bridgend last week, and 10 children weren't in attendance because of COVID. I just wanted to say as well the quality of the care that they give, and the work they put into the development and happiness of our future generations, is outstanding. So, we really do owe it to them to ensure that they're given the recognition they deserve with secure work, career recognition and fair pay. Thank you.

I'd like to share some of my own experiences as a mum of three who had voluntary roles within the sector as a playgroup committee secretary and fundraiser to highlight why access to childcare is so important for working parents.

After my first child was born—and this goes back a few years, when times were easier—I went back to my office job, but most of my wages went on nursery fees. When I had two children following maternity leave, I had to give up my office job as childcare was too expensive, and went to work in a shop in the evening when my husband came home from work. I also then worked in a pub and did an Avon round for a number of years. When I had my third child, I was fortunate that it was the pre-universal credit era, pre cuts to social security, and we still had child and working tax credit, which meant that, with the top-ups of £80 extra per week to my husband's wages, I could afford to have some time at home with my young children for a short while, until I started to go back into part time and then full-time work, sometimes, though, having to take my youngest child with me.

Times were tough then, but I was fortunate, because under universal credit, cuts to social security benefits and the rising cost of living, that option is no longer there for so many families. For most people, having children and balancing income is a juggle and a struggle, as most families rely on two wages. Childcare is too expensive, and grandparents, who may have helped at one time, may be working themselves, as my mum was, or live too far away. Once the children reached three and a half and four years of age and had free paid-for childcare at playgroup or school nursery, it was such a relief—a milestone for me to go back to work.

Some might say we shouldn't have children if we can't afford them, but I don't think I've ever been able to afford my children and I am proud of each one of them and what they have achieved, giving back to society. And it's no wonder that now there is a concerning fall in birth rates, which, if we don't resolve, will cause issues in years to come, with an ageing population and nobody to pay taxes or care for them. It's down to financial hardship, insecurity and general anxiety about the future. The birth rate rose during the last UK Labour Government, thanks to free nursery education, childcare, tax credits, and 3,500 Sure Start children's centres. The birth rate began to plunge again in 2012, which was when draconian austerity cuts kicked in, targeted at children. The number of babies born in 2019 was down a startling 12.2 per cent on 2012, with a further 4 per cent reduction over the last two years. Without a secure home and certainty of food on the table, people dare not have babies. 

When I was on the playgroup committee, we had to fundraise, as the amount parents paid and funding from Government for free childcare wasn't enough to cover the wages, the hire of the facilities, the insurance, the materials. And just like primary schools, they also have to adhere to the foundation phase curriculum and inspections. Special learning materials and toys have to bought, varied healthy snacks have to be provided—all at an added cost.

Like schools, playgroups are also inspected by Estyn. Playgroup supervisors are often paid minimum wage for a service that now, due to curriculums and inspections, requires special skills and training. I remember sometimes the playgroup supervisors would go without being paid for a little while until the money kicked in, and I remember sometimes we used to just try and cover their wages as well, ourselves personally. Their role now must involve planning, observation and assessments, and they must adhere to a child's individual needs to make sure they reach their full potential, which is right, but they should be paid for it. All this must be down on paper for inspection and reports have to be written.

With schools now required by law to recruit staff to adhere to the 1:8 ratio, many qualified supervisors are leaving playgroups to move into schools where the pay and working conditions are so much better. The retention of suitably qualified staff is therefore now becoming a big problem, simply down to the fact that playgroups cannot afford to give their staff the remuneration they deserve. Playgroups are collapsing because staff can no longer afford to work for such low wages for the responsibility they have. We need to be better at recognising the important work these staff members do.

I have seen documents and strategies stating that young children are starting school nursery with poor communication skills, and how important it is for them to attend playgroups, and also how important it is for education through the foundation phase to start as early as possible at even two and a half years of age, but there is no finance to support it.

Comments are made by schools about how much easier it is for post-playgroup children and teachers as they have already been taught to put away, self-select, and shown how to do all these things. They are so much more prepared for school, which in turn assists teachers in progressing with the foundation phase.

You need to conclude now.

I will, thank you. It's brilliant that Welsh Government want to fund two-year-olds to attend higher quality childcare settings, but I agree with the report findings that it will only be effective if the settings can stay open and that the funding is adequate to pay staff a real living wage. Thank you.

I call on the Deputy Minister for Social Services, Julie Morgan.

Thank you, and I would like to start by thanking the committee and my colleagues for participating in this important debate.

I think this has been an absolutely great debate, and it's been so good to hear from everybody and people's personal experiences and the great commitment that has been shown in this Chamber and by the committee to expanding childcare and recognising its importance, because I think wherever you live or the circumstances you're born into should not determine your future. We need to have high aspirations for all children and families in Wales, and we know that access to high-quality early education and care is invaluable for children, and particularly for those from more disadvantaged communities. And ensuring that every child has access to high-quality support and the early education and childcare they receive is the key to addressing inequality, as Jenny Rathbone said in her introduction to the debate.

The Welsh Government has always had a strong focus on children. Successive Governments have placed the rights and needs of children high on the agenda, from the appointment of the first Children's Commissioner for Wales in the UK to leading on the promotion of children's play and the introduction of a child-centred curriculum. The Welsh Government values Wales's children and young people and is committed to making Wales a wonderful place in which to grow up. And in Wales we have excellent childcare provision across the early years and a long-established and well-regarded early education offer for three and four-year-olds. And our approach to early childhood education and care is building on these foundations, and at its core is the aim that all children will have a high-quality, stimulating learning and care experience in any education and care setting they attend, in Welsh, English or bilingually. The type of setting they attend is irrelevant if they are being supported and nurtured as they need. And in response to Huw Irranca-Davies's contribution, I am confident that we are moving towards a future where all children right across Wales will be able to attend stimulating, exciting and beneficial childcare and play experiences, and this will enable their families to make the most of the opportunities afforded to them. So, we are on that journey to ECEC that I know as Minister he was very supportive when he was in this role, and later in the summer, we will be publishing a more detailed description of how we're going to reach there. But I want to reassure the Chamber that we are on this journey and that we think it is one of the most important things that we need to do.

Supporting families with childcare costs is one of our main priorities, and I'm very pleased that our co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru supports us in this ambition, because access to affordable and flexible childcare is an important part of supporting parents, and as we've heard today, particularly mothers—I was very pleased to hear from Sam as well—to overcome one of the main barriers that prevent them from working or from progressing further in their careers, and that has been illustrated in this debate. Because childcare in all its forms does just that: it gives parents choices, choices about whether, for example, they can go for a promotion, make a career change, work longer hours to bring in more income in these increasingly challenging financial times, because childcare is an enabler, helping increase economic growth, tackle poverty and reduce inequalities. And at this particularly awful time, when so many families are struggling, funded childcare is a crucial element in the fight against poverty, and I think Sioned talked about the really difficult circumstances that so many people are in here in Wales today, and I see childcare as a crucial way of tackling those huge difficulties that people are experiencing.

Delivering a mixed model of provision to suit the needs of different families is challenging, and I'm pleased that we've got a broad spectrum of services in Wales to support those different needs and provisions through the mediums of English and Welsh. But I'm also conscious that the options available to families can be influenced by a huge range of factors. For example, in rural and in less affluent areas, we see that there's definitely less choice for parents and there's more we need to do in terms of Welsh-medium provision right across Wales. Jenny raised in her contribution at the beginning about the issue of children, disabled children, perhaps being moved around between different types of provision, which is obviously what we would want to avoid, and we are encouraging childcare provision on school sites, and I hope we have the support of some headteachers to continue to do that, and also our capital grants, our capital childcare grants, have enabled further provision of childcare on sites.

Just to say at this point, several Members have made a point that lots of people don't know what childcare is available, and I think that this is a very important point that the committee has raised. We do depend a lot on the family information service, because we think it is good to have the information in one spot. And we're working hard with the family information service to ensure it is as wide as it can be. We're also working with Cwlwm to make sure that what's on the website is reaching as widely as it possibly can. So, I do think that's a very important point, that we must know what is available.

We have committed to fund childcare for more parents in education and training through our childcare offer for three to four-year-olds, and we are also, as has been mentioned lots of times here today, and very widely welcomed, expanding childcare to all two-year-olds in Wales, with a particular emphasis on strengthening Welsh-medium provision, and that's a commitment in the co-operation agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru.

So, phase 1 of the expansion will include all four elements of Flying Start being offered to around 2,500 additional children. And the two-year-olds will receive the funded childcare. I think it's really important to note that the research that's been done on Flying Start has shown that it has narrowed the gap, that it has been really successful. And that's why we decided that we would expand the two-year-old provision through Flying Start, because the combination of the four elements of Flying Start has bridged that gap, and it's bridged it very successfully. So, I think that we've made the right decision that we're going through Flying Start to expand.

And in the summer, we'll come forward with our plans about how we will proceed with expanding Flying Start, because we do have the aim of having all two-year-olds having access to funded childcare in the three years of the co-operation agreement—by the end of the three years. And it is very ambitious—it is a very ambitious plan. I think I'll just say that we have to work, in ensuring that we fulfil this plan, in genuine partnership with the sector in order to achieve this. We absolutely have to talk to all the different organisations that are involved in the sector to bring this about successfully. And there are many interconnected cogs in this system, and we want to ensure that improvements made are the right ones for the children of Wales, and to offer services that are inclusive of all needs and experiences.

I thought it very important to make the point that, as a Government, we are committed to creating an anti-racist Wales. That is one of the areas that we want to look at in relation to the childcare sector. Because the race equality action plan will be published, I believe, and the Minister of Social Justice is here, by May 2022—

You need to bring your contribution to a conclusion now.

—and we'll continue to work in partnership to develop actions for the childcare and play sector, because I think this is an absolutely crucial sector. 

So, in conclusion—I think there are lots of other points that I would like to cover, but in conclusion, the Government is absolutely committed to extending childcare. We believe that free childcare should be available to all those children who need it in Wales, and we are on a step on that journey. Diolch.

I call on Jenny Rathbone to reply to the debate.

Thank you very much for everybody's contributions; it's been a really rich debate. Sam Rowlands, thank you for your participation in our inquiry. Certainly, there's an important role for grandparents. If they're too decrepit to get down on the floor, which is what you need in early years, then, of course, there's a very important role for them helping children read in school. But there really is a role for anybody who is child focused to get stuck in with the very early children.

Sioned emphasised the terrible impact of the gender pay gap, which is largely, as Chwarae Teg says, down to the lack of childcare. And obviously, you were arguing for the gold standard, that we should have childcare for every child from the age of one. And that, of course, is what we must aspire to, but it's taken Sweden since the 1970s to get where they are today and we can only move forward in bite-sized chunks, frankly.

Sioned, you also emphasised the importance of expanding Flying Start and asking about where it's going to be targeted. Is it, for example, going to be targeted at pockets of poverty not covered by Flying Start, which I know the Deputy Minister has always had a bit of a focus on? 

It's very useful to hear from Huw Irranca-Davies, who previously had this role in Government. Of course, the very early years—. Children start learning from birth. You've only got to see the way the photographs capture it—these birth photos, with the child looking at the mother. That is communication and that is when it starts. So, I think a very important point made by Huw Irranca, which is that there's no financial advantage to opening up provision in areas of disadvantage, and that is where the state has to intervene, if the market is not working. Clearly, we need to ensure that those who are doing a really valuable role in the private and community sectors are able to do it.

Laura Anne Jones—absolutely no apologies for contributing to this. We're not talking to ourselves; we are talking to the whole Senedd. This is something we all need to pay attention to, because the Effective Provision of Pre-school Education evidence is absolutely clear, and that was published in 2004: preschool education really does make a difference in terms of disadvantage, and that is what we need to do. So, childcare for under-threes is absolutely essential.

Jane Dodds, you also went for gold in terms of wanting childcare from when maternity leave ends, but also pointing out that the current childcare offer excludes those who are not working or where you have a two-parent household where one is not working. 

Sarah, you reflected the struggles of your constituents—the students, people on low pay—for whom childcare is the biggest hurdle, and people who work to fund their childcare. And then Carolyn Thomas—what a brilliant contribution—your lived experience of exactly that, having to just earn enough money to fund the childcare. That is the destiny of most people on below-average earnings. It is not possible, in general terms, to work unless you've got handy grandparents or other members of the family who are prepared to assist you. And I think you also reflected the struggle of the voluntary sector, of having to fundraise for the wages, for the costs, for the supplies. This is so important. 

And then, Julie Morgan, thank you very much for welcoming our report. There's obviously a huge amount of unanswered questions that we'll need to come back to. For example, the childcare for two-year-olds—is this early education or is it childcare? Because that's absolutely crucial. For my own part, I think it should be early education, because that is what's going to benefit the child and, at the end of the day, there really are three things, I think, the three Cs—

Could I make a short intervention?

Quickly.

A very short intervention. It's simply to say that all the international experience shows that from age appropriate—. From a very young age, from that nine months and onwards, what you need is that unified approach that actually brings the early years education and childcare together. That includes play, but that unified approach is critical to success and outcomes.

We agree. We all know that learning through play is the very best thing to do and that is the best outcome for young children.

But I think the three challenges we all face—. One is cost, the other is the need to be child focused and the third is that consistency of curriculum across all settings, wherever the childcare is being delivered. Those are the three things we need to move forward on.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? I haven't heard an objection, therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.