The next item is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership on conversion therapy. I call on the Deputy Minister to make the statement. Hannah Blythyn. 

Diolch. Dirprwy Lywydd, I wanted to take the earliest opportunity to update Members following my written statement at the start of Easter recess in response the UK Government's shifting position on an LGBT conversion therapy ban. The UK Government has repeatedly made commitments to end the discredited practice of conversion therapy—in the Queen's Speech, by the Prime Minister, by UK Government Ministers, in recent consultations and through public announcements. It was also a commitment made directly to the Welsh Government, and we acted in good faith that this commitment was a sincere attempt to right a very clear injustice. They stated that their proposals would be universal and protect everyone whatever their sexual orientation and whether they are transgender or not.

When a document outlining the UK Government's proposed approach to abandon a legal ban on conversion therapy made it into the public domain, it described the likely outrage that would come from our LGBTQ+ community as 'noise', and decided our voices, as for generations before, were something to be dismissed, disregarded and diminished. But that noise turned out to be not so manageable as the Prime Minister undertook a rapid u-turn on plans to shelve altogether legislation to outlaw conversion therapy. Shamefully, on Transgender Day of Visibility, Prime Minister Boris Johnson chose instead to abandon every single transgender person in England and Wales.

Excluding trans people from the UK Government’s much-delayed proposals on ending this ineffective and harmful practice is causing very real and widespread distress. There's no clear rationale for this exclusion of trans people from the protections provided by the proposed ban; in fact, the opposite is the case, as the UK Government’s own LGBT survey found that trans people are nearly twice as likely as lesbian, gay and bisexual people to be subject to conversion therapy. It goes against the advice of independent experts, the medical profession and the Anglican Church.

So-called conversion therapy, which attempts to change or alter a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity, is an abhorrent, draconian and wholly unacceptable practice founded in deep-rooted homophobia and transphobia that should have no place in our communities and country. It is carried out under the false pretext of 'therapy', inflicts severe pain and suffering on LGBTQ+ people, and often causes long-lasting physical and psychological harm. When what somebody needs the most is support, to be empowered and to be loved for who they are, they are worn down to believe who they are is fundamentally wrong and something to be cured.

The Welsh Government is completely opposed to this practice, and is doing all we can to make it and the harm it causes history. We made a commitment in our programme for government to use all available powers to ban all aspects of LGBTQ+ conversion therapy, and seek the devolution of any necessary additional powers. I am pleased that we will be pursuing this with Plaid Cymru as part of our co-operation agreement. Here in Wales, we stand together in solidarity with and within our LGBTQ+ communities. None of us are equal while any of our rights are up for discussion or barter.

In recent weeks, I have met many members of our LGBTQ+ communities, especially those from trans communities, to better understand their concerns and fears, as well as their justified sense of anger at this betrayal by the UK Government. Today, I want to further reaffirm and offer reassurance that the Welsh Government is committed to banning conversion practices for everyone in our LGBTQ+ communities. We will do everything possible within our devolved powers and seek the devolution of any necessary additional powers to achieve this. The Welsh Government will protect and value every LGBTQ+ person. Action speaks louder than words, and it is clear we cannot trust the UK Government to deliver the protections that every member of the LGBTQ+ community deserves.  

Today, I can announce the next steps this Welsh Government is taking, and will take, towards making conversion therapy a thing of the past, by the commissioning of legal advice to determine all the levers we have in Wales to end the practice of conversion therapy unilaterally. I want to know what we can do, not just what we can’t do. We will educate and raise awareness of the horrors and ineffectiveness of conversion therapy practices by establishing a dedicated campaign in Wales. The campaign will highlight existing support services for survivors of conversion therapy, but alongside this we will design and commission research to better understand the impact of conversion therapy on survivors to improve the accessibility and effectiveness of support services. We will establish a working group of experts, to include representatives from faith communities, the health and social care sector, and children and young people’s representatives, alongside LGBTQ+ people, to help with this work and advise on key elements as a ban is developed and taken forward.

In addition to this, I’m pleased to be able to announce that NHS Wales has signed up to the memorandum of understanding on banning conversion therapy. Organisations who sign the memorandum and work in the provision of mental or psychological health delivery or commissioning, such as the NHS, commit to ending the practice of conversion therapy by actively ensuring they do not commission or provide conversion therapy. We are committed to building on these steps and to end to conversion therapy in Wales. There is widespread support for a ban, and I have received messages of support from a range of individuals and organisations, from the health sector to faith settings. Together, we can make conversion therapy history. Together, we can make sure Wales is the most LGBTQ+ friendly nation in Europe, where no-one can or will be left out or left behind. 

Conservative spokesperson, Altaf Hussain.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Thank you, Deputy Minister. Being a member of the LGBT+ community is not an illness to be cured, and any step we can take to ban conversion therapy for good must be welcomed. Banning conversion therapy is a huge step in providing equality for the LGBT community. Conversion therapy is toxic and can have a huge impact on the mental and physical well-being of persons going through it. No-one should be made to feel ashamed to be who they are. While those who have gender identity dilemmas are equally right to expect the same dignity and protection as gay, lesbian and bisexual people, this issue requires a different approach. Gender identity can lead to a number of physical and mental changes that would be totally life-changing in every way. Instead of signing a memorandum of understanding to ban conversion therapy, why hasn't the Labour Government in Cardiff Bay just cracked on and banned it? I fear that this is just another example of Labour making all the right noises, especially with an election just over one week away, but not doing anything meaningful about it. A different approach is needed to make sure that a person's transitioning receives the correct support and process that they need to get to the point that they feel most comfortable. Their body, their choice, their identity. Thank you. 

Can I start by welcoming Altaf Hussain back? It's the first time that I have had the opportunity to welcome you back into this Chamber and to see you here, looking so well. I welcome your words of support and the recognition that no-one should be ashamed to be who they are and should be forced to change who they are. 

I very much regret the tone that you then took about accusing us of playing party politics. This isn't about party politics or politics of any kind. [Interruption.] Don't laugh. This is about people's lives. This is about people's lives, this is about doing the right thing, and doing everything that we can to support and protect people who are members of the LGBTQ+ community in communities right across Wales. I completely reject that accusation, and I think that it is in particularly bad taste.

You asked why we are just signing a memorandum of understanding on conversion therapy. Well, if you listened to the statement today, that's not what we are doing. I very much come across these things as an activist by nature, by background. While we are actually setting the wheels in motion to determine what we can do, how we take that ban forward and make sure that we get it right, and examine the other levers that we might need to be able to do everything that we want to do, we will take the steps that we can take now—such as the MOU and such as how we actually work with communities to raise awareness over this abhorrent practice, but also how we can appraise the support services available. 

I will just say in closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, that I very much welcome the Welsh Conservatives' support for a ban on LGBT conversion therapy, and if we get to the point where we do need to call for further powers to be devolved to Wales, you are very welcome to join us in that call.  

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Sioned Williams.

Thank you, Deputy Llywydd, and thank you to the Deputy Minister for her robust statement this afternoon. I'd like to identify myself and my party entirely with what you have said about the disgraceful stance of the Westminster Government on this issue. Having the powers to improve the lives of trans people in Wales and to safeguard those people is crucially important if we are to ensure fairness and end prejudice and inequality.

This issue has clearly demonstrated why we can't trust in the Westminster Government to safeguard the interests of the people of Wales. We have a Senedd to serve the people of Wales. The Welsh Government must do everything within its power and call for all powers necessary from Westminster as a matter of urgency so that we can deliver our ambition of ensuring that Wales will be the most LGBTQ+ friendly community in Europe.

Without the necessary powers, we are at the mercy of Westminster and reactionary Governments such as the one that we have, led by Boris Johnson at the moment, which can't be trusted at all in terms of tackling inequality and ensuring fairness. It's clear that this is one of a number of threats to, and attacks on, the rights of the LGBTQ+ community, and is part of a broader ideological agenda by the Johnson Tories to target minority groups for political reasons. It is entirely disgraceful and we shouldn't accept this.

The devolution settlement does restrict our powers to protect the LGBTQ+ community fully here in Wales. With powers over justice, we could deliver against that aim without having to bring influence to bear and to argue our case and to find alternative ways of ensuring fairness and equality for our people. I welcome the Deputy Minister's statement, and Plaid Cymru entirely supports the stance of the Welsh Government in ensuring that conversion therapy is banned entirely, and ensuring that nobody is under pressure to hide or to change who they are in terms of their sexuality or their gender identity, or both. Plaid Cymru supports the steps that have been outlined to try and ban conversion therapy in Wales, and through the Plaid Cymru agreement with the Government, we welcome the opportunity to collaborate on this issue.

It's also good to hear of the steps taken to raise awareness of the horrors and the inefficiency of conversion processes, and to improve accessibility to support services. I'd therefore like to ask whether the Deputy Minister could explain in more detail how the objectives that we share can be achieved in ensuring a full ban on conversion practices and to safeguard every LGBTQ+ person in Wales from the damage and trauma that these therapies cause, and do so once and for all. What legislative processes or methods are being considered that could deliver this, and what is the timetable that the Deputy Minister anticipates? What's the Government's intention if it isn't possible to achieve its ambitions, having received the legal advice that she has commissioned? Thank you.

Thank you for your support.

I very much welcome and appreciate the position and the support taken by colleagues in Plaid Cymru on this really important issue and one that, as you said, creates real harm and horrors. That's why it's very important, alongside the action we're taken towards a ban on conversion therapy, that we raise awareness of the horrors and the harm that it does cause, at the same time as making sure that the services that are there to support people are adequate, and can be improved where they need to be. And the way in which we should be doing that is actually—officials and policy officials will be talking, and I will also myself be talking directly to survivors of conversion therapy, because it's nothing about us, without us, and I think it's very, very important that not only are the LGBTQ+ community part of this working group towards implementing the ban, but people's experiences actually shape what we do, not least to actually really hit home with the horror that is conversion therapy. One of the things that struck me when this kind of came to the fore weeks ago, and there was a lot of press around it, was people saying to me that they're shocked to actually realise this could still potentially happen in today's society, and I think it's really important to make people aware that this is why we need to take action, and the devastating consequences it has on the LGBTQ community.

I just want to touch on the points that you just made, Sioned, around this toxic—and I'm not going to use the word 'debate', because I think it's absolutely wrong to use that word, because it's people's lives we're talking about; it is not a debate. But that actual just toxic narrative, where it's been used to attack people, and I'm not just blaming any political party, but in the media as well, and particularly on social media—. You worry that history is repeating itself, because much of those attacks are very similar to the vilification that the gay community faced 40 years ago at the height of the AIDS epidemic, and I think the only difference here is that, within this Chamber, within this Government, we have a duty to show leadership and speak up for the communities that have been attacked, and not just stand in solidarity, but to take action like we are with the conversion therapy ban.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

I want to thank the Deputy Minister both for being an individual champion as a Member of the Senedd, but also in her role as Deputy Minister. The work that she's doing is exceptional, and, certainly, I want to put my name to it, and say, 'You represent me in what you're doing'.

I put on Twitter a couple of days ago an answer to a question. Something called the Wales Women's Rights Network asked me a question: 'What is a woman?' That question was being asked to create dividing lines, and it was being used to attack trans people. And I said in response:

'I've done casework for trans people who've faced incredible challenges in their lives.'

It really is heart-rending when you hear some of the stories that trans people have faced.

'They deserve much better than trite questions like this. Life is complex. Deal with it.'

The reason I said that in the way that I said it was because that question was clearly designed to divide, and you can bet that those people behind that question would support conversion therapy, which is unbelievable in this day and age. That's why I'm backing this today. So, in welcoming that, I'd also like to ask, then, in a linked question, when we might see an update on the Welsh Government's LGBTQ+ action plan? Will we see that shortly? Because I know the Minister's working on that too, which works nicely in parallel with this. But, thank you, for the work you're doing, Deputy Minister.

Can I thank Hefin David for your kind and supportive words, and also thank you for speaking out and speaking up to defend not just your constituents, but the trans community in Wales? And you're right, a lot of these things, particularly on social media, are designed to divide. And I think we do have a responsibility, however hard it might be, to actually call that out and to challenge, in the best way we can, without amplifying that at the same time. So, I very much welcome your support and everything you're doing, particularly to support your own constituents, because I know we will all probably have stories of how difficult it has been for people and the pain that people have faced.

In the last couple of days, I've spoken to representatives of the trans community in Wales, and it really was quite awful listening to just the impact people's words have and the impact, the message it sends to exclude a group from a ban on conversion therapy, and people saying, 'Is it safe to be here anymore?', in the UK, and people, obviously, having concerns for their mental health. This isn't about, like I say, politics, it's about people and it's about doing the right thing by everybody. So, I very much do welcome Hefin David's support. 

And just, very briefly, on the LGBTQ+ action plan, I very much hope to be able to update the Senedd prior to the summer recess on that and our progress on it. But I think what we're doing today and the steps we're taking around working towards a ban on conversion therapy are very much part of that plan. I've always said from the outset that it's not just about the plan, it's about the action, all importantly, that makes a difference to people's lives, and I want to present that plan in a way where we can already demonstrate where those actions are being taken. 

I thank the Deputy Minister.