3. Will the First Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's target to eliminate hepatitis C in Wales? OQ58030

Llywydd, while resources were necessarily redirected during the pandemic, the actions taken to address street homelessness brought in large numbers of new patients to receive effective treatment. Key initiatives are now restarting in blood-borne virus services.

Thank you for that response. At least 8,000 people in Wales have a chronic hepatitis C infection, but we could eradicate hepatitis C entirely. That's the good news. But, although eradication is possible, and Wales in the past has taken major steps towards eradication by 2030, the reality is that we have now fallen back and we're not on the right tracks to hit that target and there are now targets that are far more ambitious in Scotland and in England. Now, the stance that the Welsh Government has taken on this unfortunately is that it is up to the health boards to develop their own programmes, but this is a national challenge and there are national interests at stake here. Will the First Minister therefore commit to establishing a national fund and a national strategy so that we can face up to this challenge with the full power of Government so that we can achieve this crucial public health goal? 

Well, Llywydd, I can see the benefits of having a national strategy, but there is a national strategy and people working on the national level already. I don't want to see a national fund. If we start having a national fund for hepatitis C, then I can see where that would lead: every group with issues that are important to them—and we know why they're important to them—would want the same thing. A national strategy, yes, of course, but services are provided via the health boards. That's the system that we have here in Wales. We continue to say that we want to reach a point in 2030 where nobody suffers from hepatitis C here in Wales. That is ambitious, and more ambitious, because we have had experience over the past two years that has taken people out of the service. But we are still working with people in this field to try to reach a point in 2030 where we're in the situation that we had outlined in the original strategy. 

First Minister, I heard your previous answer. The previous Health, Social Care and Sport Committee made a specific recommendation around a national campaign and, in response to that, the then Minister accepted that recommendation in principle. But one of the obstacles was that they didn't see the evidence for a national campaign, and the Minister then said they'd need to see that evidence before a national campaign could be brought forward. What kind of evidence would you expect to see to accept that recommendation and agree that a national campaign is the appropriate response?

Llywydd, I'm familiar with the report of the committee, which was of course published in 2019, and its recommendations—I know the Member understands this—have been interrupted by the pandemic. Actually, we have had some very important national evidence as a result of the pandemic, because we've had over 1,000 people who were street homeless back in 2019, when that report was written, who've been brought into accommodation because of the actions taken during the pandemic. And more than 1,000 service users are now benefiting from the new and nationally implemented treatment of Buvidal. At the most recent meeting of the Policing Partnership Board for Wales, we were joined by the Minister of State at the Home Office, Kit Malthouse, who said that Wales was the leading part of the United Kingdom in making sure that Buvidal was prescribed to people in those circumstances, and which will make a genuine difference in the issue of hepatitis C that we're discussing this afternoon. So, we've had, inadvertently and not in the way that the committee anticipated, that national experiment, which shows that it is possible to make inroads into some quite challenging populations, where efforts are co-ordinated and implemented with the sort of determination that we saw by our homelessness services when faced with the impact of a pandemic.

First Minister, at the Hepatitis C Trust event here at the Senedd last week, I got to talk with Kieren, who is from Porthcawl in my constituency, about the peer support work that he and others are doing across our communities. People like Kieren are making the difference to those vulnerable to diseases like hepatitis C, and he shared his experience of working on the ground. And it really did sadden me to learn that, whilst there is progress for testing and treatment for diseases such as HIV, there is still much stigma around diseases like hepatitis C that is preventing people then from getting tested. The reasons why people may become vulnerable to hepatitis C can often be very complex, but Kieren assured me that, through the peer support, whether it is in hostels or prisons, it is making a difference and mitigating the spread. That really can be eradicated in our lifetime. First Minister, how is the Welsh Government working with organisations such as the Hepatitis C Trust to destigmatise it and ensure that communities who are most vulnerable are provided with the resources to be tested, treated and supported?   

Llywydd, I'm very pleased that the Hepatitis C Trust has extended its programme to Wales and has appointed two workers to work in that peer-led way. Stigma is very much part of the barrier to people coming forward for treatment for hepatitis C, and person-to-person contact from someone who's been through the process and can demonstrate its success is a way in which we can erode that. Here in Cardiff and Vale, the 'Follow Me' scheme, which is another peer-to-peer scheme, is now operating, particularly in homelessness services, and, as it is established, the plan is that it will then train other peer volunteers in other parts of Wales, again as part of that campaign to erode the stigma that is too often associated with the disease and prevents people coming forward for help.

And we do know, Llywydd, that it is possible, as Sarah Murphy said, to make genuine progress in this area. Swansea prison became the first remand prison in the United Kingdom to achieve hep C elimination back in 2019. The same techniques that were used there are now being implemented in north Wales in HMP Berwyn, and funding has been secured to spread that service into Cardiff prison as well. So, we know things that work, and the example that Sarah Murphy provided us with of a person she was talking with is just one of those examples of how we can make progress in this challenging field, but one where we know success can be achieved.