7. Statement by the Minister for Social Justice: Update on Ukraine

– in the Senedd at 4:51 pm on 17 May 2022.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:51, 17 May 2022

(Translated)

The next statement, therefore, is the statement by the Minister for Social Justice, an update on Ukraine, and I call on the Minister to make the statement. Jane Hutt.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd, and thank you for the opportunity to provide an update to Members on our ongoing work to support Ukrainians hoping to find sanctuary in Wales. In the two weeks since I last provided an oral statement on this matter, we've welcomed many new neighbours and friends from Ukraine. The UK Government has begun to publish Homes for Ukraine scheme arrivals data for the first time and, as of 10 May, Wales had welcomed 1,126 Ukrainians, in addition to those arriving under the Ukraine family scheme, and it is our privilege to be able to provide sanctuary to each and every one of those arriving.

I want to thank local government for the truly outstanding work they're doing to prepare for and support these arrivals. The sheer scale of property inspections, safeguarding checks and resolution of novel issues that they have undertaken has been remarkable. And we are seeing improvements in the average time the UK Government takes to consider and approve visas, but there are still problems with the way the system operates, not least the inability for grouped family applications to be submitted, meaning that sometimes large groups are prevented from travelling because only one visa is missing. I've raised this with the UK Minister for Refugees and have been assured that this will also be improved shortly.

We are pleased to see over 1,000 Ukrainians arrive in Wales, but three times that number have had visas approved. We're monitoring this closely and seeking to understand the reasons why people are not arriving in greater numbers and if there are other barriers preventing travel that we may be able to address.

We remain concerned about the safeguarding risks presented by informal social media matching for the Homes for Ukraine scheme. We're continuing to urge Welsh households who wish to be sponsors to be matched via reputable organisations such as Reset or to approach their local authority, and we continue to work closely with local authorities and across UK nations on these crucial issues.

Last week we contacted all Welsh households who'd expressed an interest in the Homes for Ukraine scheme to ask if they were still interested in taking part but had not yet found a match. We've had a very positive response so far, and we'll be working with local government to ensure those offers can be checked to form a source of safe accommodation offers. These can be used where initial placements come to an end and as secondary destinations once each family is ready to move on from a welcome centre.

For those who've already arrived in Wales, we recently announced the extension of our free public transport offer. Initially, we were able to offer free rail travel to Ukrainians and newly granted refugees; however, last week we were able to announce the free bus travel welcome ticket, where participating bus companies will also provide this offer. The list of participating bus companies can be found by searching for 'welcome ticket' at gov.wales. And I want to thank every bus company that's joined this scheme, and I also encourage others to do so, so that we can ensure Ukrainians and refugees in all parts of Wales can benefit.

In addition, we've been able to announce Cadw’s free entry scheme to their sites across Wales. Cadw had already been supporting our nation of sanctuary vision for a number of years through free supported visits for asylum seekers. However, a free entry offer has now been expanded to ensure any sanctuary seeker in Wales can benefit.

We have encountered some difficult challenges since we started to welcome people fleeing the conflict and we're working through these as quickly and carefully as we can. I'm aware that some children arriving have not yet been able to join their new classmates in school. We're attempting to minimise risks of multi-drug-resistant TB, which remains a public health threat in Ukraine, by providing TB screening for all arrivals. The chief medical officer has published revised advice, recommending that primary school age children can start school prior to screening due to the low risk. The advice remains that secondary school age children should be screened before starting school, and this is being kept under review as we gather more data about prevalence through the screening programme.

We're working closely with universities and colleges to ensure English language tuition is made available as broadly as possible. We're seeking to utilise the regional ESOL assessment central hub, or REACH model in conjunction with other agencies at the welcome centres to ensure individuals can be assessed and the right level of intervention provided. I know that the University of South Wales and Rhondda Cynon Taf council have already started informal ESOL classes to run through the summer period, and we're bringing together local authorities and universities across Wales to widen this approach.

Finally, we are working closely with third sector organisations to ensure that as people arrive we have avenues for advice and support available to them. I'm now chairing a working group to co-ordinate efforts with the third sector, including violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence services, and we're working to secure partners who can provide advice and advocacy services soon. Over the weekend we saw a very positive example of this partnership working with the third sector, as I was delighted that we could work closely with Citizens UK Cymru to bring 18 Ukrainians into Wales together. Further work will take place in the coming days and weeks.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 4:57, 17 May 2022

In your update on Welsh Government support for Ukraine last Thursday, you referred to the latest UK Government figures, which stated that, as of 10 May, 3,300 visas have been issued to people from Ukraine to come to Wales via the Homes for Ukraine scheme, which is up 1,000 in just a fortnight, of which 1,300 were sponsored by the Welsh Government, up 630 in just a fortnight. Overall, a total of 132,900 Ukraine scheme visa applications have now been received, with 120,300 visas issued, up from 73.2 per cent to 77 per cent in a fortnight, and 46,100 total arrivals for visa holders in the UK, up from 23 per cent to 34.6 per cent in a fortnight. You state that 1,126 people with sponsors have now arrived in Wales, in addition to those arriving under the Ukraine family scheme. What therefore is your understanding of how many have arrived in Wales in total so far under both schemes? And notwithstanding the gradually improving figures, what further specific discussions have you had with the UK Minister for Refugees about the reasons for the gap between numbers of visas issued and total arrivals, and what is being done to address this?

Last Thursday, Members received a British Red Cross briefing on Ukraine, with recommended actions. How do you respond to their statements that, as refugees settle into Wales, monitoring the welfare and safety of refugees longer term will be crucial? Therefore, in the Welsh Government's role as a supersponsor under the Homes for Ukraine scheme, they said, it's important that assurances are made around safeguarding support to ensure that there is a role for local authorities in monitoring ongoing support around the welfare of Ukrainians as they settle in Wales. And they said that, 'While support to date is welcome, we want to minimise the risk of embedding a two-tiered system for refugees in Wales and the UK, which would mean treating people differently based on the way they arrived.' The proposed changes, they said, could leave people without access to vital support. 

Responding to you two weeks ago, I also referred to figures showing a huge variation in the number of visas issued across local authorities in Wales. What is your understanding of the comparative position now, a fortnight later, and, notwithstanding the obvious differences in population size, what is your understanding of the reasons for this range and how are you targeting support at a local level, if a disparity still exists?

Responding to you two weeks ago, I asked how you were working with ministerial colleagues to ensure that school places and local GP and NHS services are available to Ukrainian refugees when they arrive in Wales. You responded stating:

'It's crucial in terms of education that children can obtain admission to schools, and, indeed, also, I have to say, to the health service, to their GPs, to the health checks that are under way. This is monitored on a daily basis.'

However, I subsequently contacted you on behalf of a constituent who had a Ukrainian refugee family arriving the following morning under the Homes for Ukraine scheme, who had been told by the local authority's school admissions that the family's primary school age child could not start education until she'd had a medical from the GP, as directed by the Welsh Government. They had been told by the GP they'd registered the family with that they refused to do a medical, knew nothing of this requirement and did not have the capacity. May I thank you for your very prompt response to this, in which you stated that officials were following up with the admissions officer in the local authority to confirm that, providing the child is well, they do not need to wait for a health assessment to be able to attend school; that the requirement to delay attendance relates specifically to TB screening; that primary school age children can attend if they're well, but secondary school age children do need an assessment and chest x-ray with the health board TB teams in advance of attending school; and that regarding the position relayed to the family from the GP practice, you have asked health officials to follow up on that with the health board as a matter of urgency?

Well, the constituent subsequently told me that school admissions had contacted them to say that primary school age children can now attend school, and thanked you and me for this. However, they added,

'I'm not sure of the process of her attending if her year group is full, which we've been told it is.'

How, therefore, are you working with colleagues to ensure that this capacity issue is addressed? And finally, how will you now ensure that local authority and health services across Wales understand your expectations of them?

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:02, 17 May 2022

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood. You've repeated the data that I gave in the statement. I think it is very encouraging that, at long last, last week, the UK Government agreed to provide data on a local authority by local authority basis, and we could then identify, as you said, that 1,126 Ukrainian refugees have come via the Homes for Ukraine scheme—some of whom will be in our welcome centres, some with host sponsors. But, also recognising that there are still many more visas that have been approved. I said that in my statement as well—at least three times that number.  

I meet with the Minister for Refugees, Lord Harrington, every fortnight. I met him on Thursday with my colleague Neil Gray, the Scottish Government Minister. We have three things on the agenda: we have visa delays, we have safeguarding, we have funding. We obviously add other things as well, as they come through. But they are very constructive meetings. And we have the evidence, I have much evidence, not just from my own casework but from many from across this Chamber, of these unacceptable delays between visa approval and arrival. So, that is the UK Government's responsibility and they have got to overcome it. But, progress is being made, as you will know, in terms of the numbers.

It's good that you had that briefing from the British Red Cross, particularly in relation to our role as a supersponsor. This is something where we've committed to supporting 1,000 people, skipping the need to identify an individual sponsor and being sponsored directly by the Welsh Government. And as of 10 May, we have got 1,317 visas that have been granted to Ukrainians—more than 1,000—under this route. So, we awaited 24/7, with weekend work—I mentioned Citizens UK Cymru—their arrival. We arranged the transport, working with Citizens UK Cymru, and at Luton Airport, the families arrived. It's tremendous when those partnerships work, but we have so much more to do to move that forward.

I think your point about safeguarding and the welcome centres, the work that we do, is crucial. When they get to the welcome centres, everyone's there to help support. Translation services are available. There are opportunities to start learning English—we've talked about ESOL—registration with GPs, children starting at school and help with money, welfare benefits and advice with finding work. All of this is on our sanctuary website. There's so much guidance and information constantly being updated. And safeguarding is crucial, as you know, and that's why welcome centres are the safest way to support Ukrainians fleeing conflict, rather than—. I've raised our concerns about any kind of route to informal social media matches. Obviously, the hosts, much of this is working very well with Homes for Ukraine, but it's important to look at our safeguarding and modern slavery guidance.

Finally, yes, this is a cross-Government issue. We have a weekly meeting—we've got one tomorrow morning—with ministerial colleagues. Education, health, local government, housing, we're all working—. Transport. We're all working together addressing these issues. I'm obviously co-ordinating this. You've mentioned that important case that I was very glad to respond to, Mark, as quickly as possible. These early days, local government—. I've praised local government for what they're doing. They are also getting guidance, they are managing it, admissions, and these are operational issues that we are working together on. I'm looking forward, with the Minister for Finance and Local Government, to meeting our new set of leaders very shortly to discuss. But, operationally, of course, we're working with chief executives.

And now, children. I had a wonderful message from a young refugee who's been waiting to get into school in my constituency, who messaged me personally last night to say, 'It is wonderful to feel I'm in school. I'm a teenager, I'm learning, it's wonderful.' This will happen to the children as they come through, and local government is committed to making that work.

Photo of Sioned Williams Sioned Williams Plaid Cymru 5:07, 17 May 2022

(Translated)

Thank you for your statement, Minister. There was a report in the Guardian recently that some refugees from Ukraine that have come to the United Kingdom were having to wait up to two years before being able to receive specialist therapy to help them deal with the atrocities that they have faced as a result of the war. We, of course, can't imagine the pressure on these people who've seen such things, who have felt such pain, anxiety and uncertainty, who've lost their homes, their careers, the future that they had planned for themselves, and, of course, who've lost loved ones, friends, neighbours and who have, unfortunately, suffered violence and sexual violence.

The chaos and the delays of weeks while they wait for visas or means to travel to the UK also cause and intensify mental health issues for those who find themselves in a situation of such stress and anxiety. The report noted that services across the United Kingdom were piecemeal in nature, with some areas described by the charity Room to Heal, which provides support to people who have fled persecution, as deserts in terms of the availability of treatment for trauma. The Royal College of Psychiatrists has also stated that the plans that are in place to welcome refugees should have included a mechanism to identify the signs of trauma early on.

We know, of course, that the whole experience of fleeing from war will have a particularly harmful impact on children, to the point where it could even change their personalities and cause long-term psychological harm. Again, Save the Children has stated that there is a lack of mental health support available to children who have been severely traumatised and who are arriving here from Ukraine. Beyond being able to access NHS care, officials at the Department of Health and Social Care in England haven't referred to any specific provision to offer trauma support to refugees who have just arrived on our shores.

The Welsh Refugee Council has noted that the major concern of those who arrive here having fled is the level and type of support available to them to be able to access public services, such as mental health treatment. And it's estimated that there are waiting times of up to two years at present in some parts of the United Kingdom, as I said.

So, could the Minister tell us what the situation is in Wales regarding the support available to facilitate access to specialist services like these? What mental health services for trauma support, in particular, are currently available in Wales for those fleeing Ukraine, beyond general access to NHS care? And, could the Minister also provide figures for the waiting times and lists for mental health and trauma services, please? Could we, in Wales, commit additional funding to our mental health services to cope with increased demand, and ensure that those who have suffered trauma because of war receive appropriate treatment? Thank you. 

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:11, 17 May 2022

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned. It's really important, this point about how we can be ready to support, recognising the trauma that so many have experienced. You talked about children. All of us know that the vast majority of refugees who are coming are women and children. Those who have met them, or who are meeting with them, know what they have been through—the trauma that they have been through.

Because we have got this 24/7 contact centre, and we have got our welcome centres, which, as I have said, is the safest way to actually then get stuck into not just the welcome centre, the support services, but all the arrangements in terms of referrals, et cetera—. So, we are working very hard with our staff, Public Health Wales, putting together a particular package of support, not just for those who are coming, but also for the staff who are supporting them. That, of course, means that we need to have interpreters, translation, which is all available as well.

So, in Wales, of course, we do have the Welsh Government's 2018 guidance for health boards on the health and well-being of asylum seekers and refugees. That's Wales specific. We translated all materials into Ukrainian and Russian to support the mental health of those arriving from Ukraine—initial stabilisation. That's on the Traumatic Stress Wales website. Also the Royal College of Psychiatry is publishing specific support materials to help with them. That's all on the Traumatic Stress Wales website; again, it's good to be able to share that with colleagues here today.

But we also, of course, have our core mental health helpline in Wales. That's available to support those arriving in Wales. It's got a language line, so it can actually help people who want to access it in a language other than English and Welsh. We are assessing needs, clearly, in terms of additional needs.

We are exploring options to provide additional mental health and well-being support at the welcome centres. That's about focusing on signposting, stabilisation, working with the third sector. All health screening will include mental health, and I can assure you that access to specialist mental health services will be available in line with need.

Photo of Jack Sargeant Jack Sargeant Labour 5:13, 17 May 2022

Can I, too, thank the Minister for her leadership, and of course the leadership of the Counsel General? I think that I speak on behalf of all of the Chamber when I say that we are very grateful for what you have done on this issue, and we are also very grateful to you for continuously updating the Chamber orally as well. Minister, given our commitment as a nation of sanctuary, can you outline to the Members of the Senedd today just how the third sector has supported and worked with volunteers, and those fleeing Ukraine?

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:14, 17 May 2022

Thank you very much, Jack Sargeant. As I have said, this is very much a cross-Government response. Co-ordination is particularly important, not just in terms of cross-Government and all of our responsibilities, but inter-Government with the UK Government and the Scottish Government, and also with local government as well. But the third sector is already playing a huge role and a huge part.

I brought together a group of voluntary third sector organisations. We met on Thursday. There are about 25 organisations now, which include the Red Cross. For example, on Thursday, we had a presentation from Community Foundation Wales—Richard Williams—about the new Croeso fund, which we've developed. Jonathan Cox from Citizens UK Cymru talked about the work that they've done, working with a non-governmental organisation in Poland and how they brought refugees on the weekend. And then in north Wales, there's Tim Hall from Link International. They are working very closely with us as they've got huge experience in terms of issues around trafficking and sexual exploitation. They're looking at and feeding back issues about host and guest issues—there are some breakdowns there—and the need for secondary placements. So, that's the sort of feedback that we were discussing on Thursday. But also, we're looking at, with those organisations, what role can they play. The Wales Council for Voluntary Action, the children's commissioner, Barnardo's and the Welsh Refugee Council are all there.

But I would just say—and it picks up something that Sioned raised earlier on—that I also invited BAWSO and Welsh Women's Aid to that meeting, because of the concerns that had been raised in my last statement about the trauma that so many women have come from. But also, there has been exploitation, particularly on borders, with people waiting to come here, and, sadly, some incidents here on arriving. They gave a very full presentation on Thursday at the meeting.

It's vital that volunteers who are coming forward look to the Volunteering Wales website. Please look under 'Ukraine'; there's a whole category to help volunteers discover their roles. I had a drop-in event on Saturday in my constituency, and volunteers came, as well as councillors and sponsor families and refugees, and there were volunteers coming who want to offer English language classes, who want to engage and support families. So, let's also put that message out today. I'm having this as the first item on the agenda at the third sector partnership council this week.

Photo of Peter Fox Peter Fox Conservative 5:17, 17 May 2022

Can I thank you, Minister, for your statement? It was very welcome. Thank you for your commitment to this cause. I know you're doing a huge amount in this regard. You've answered some of my key questions, which were about education and screening. They were captured well and I thank you for the deeper understanding of the situation we seem to be facing. But I am having constituents who are contacting me quite often now about some of these concerns. There seems to be, perhaps, a lack of communication back to them to help them understand why some of these things might be happening. Perhaps that's an area, together with the education Minister, that you could look at—trying to articulate better for those people who are helping to look after those children. I had one constituent who has had a Ukrainian child with them now for a month. They've gone through all of the screening and they have a place in school, but they're still unable to access school for some reason—again, a communication issue, I'm sure. But, Minister, you've answered my questions around screening and why the difference between primary and secondary. I thank you for that and thank you for the work that's going on.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:18, 17 May 2022

Thank you very much, Peter Fox. Can I just say again that it is the local authorities who have got to take the responsibility in terms of admissions to schools? They've got clear guidance. Obviously, therefore, in terms of that contact, you are important as a bridge to make that contact happen.

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru

Can I thank you, Minister, for the regularity of these briefings? Obviously, it is a fast-moving situation, and I think that is reflected with the response and regularity here. I just wanted to reference two things briefly. It was obviously great to see the emphasis with English language tuition; what does this mean in terms of access to Welsh language immersion as well? Because obviously families will be all over Wales. Some will, hopefully, as we've seen with different people coming to Wales in the past, be immersed in the Welsh language, as we saw with the Urdd. So, just a question in terms of that bilingual welcome and opportunity.

Also, I just wanted to raise the issue of people without passports currently in Ukraine. I have been contacted by a number of people who are trying to support those. Obviously, the UK Government is placing a big emphasis that people must have passports in order to be able to come here, whereas other countries are not placing that same restriction. Obviously, if you're fleeing a war, being able to take all your documents is not something that's quite as easy, and also some people may not have had passports in the first place and are trying to secure those now. So, I just wanted to ask: what support is Welsh Government currently providing in assisting those without a passport for a whole array of reasons in Ukraine so that they are able to reach here safely?

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:20, 17 May 2022

Diolch yn fawr, Heledd. Those are very important questions, which are being worked on at the moment, about access to language support. I've given some detail already in terms of ESOL, trying to ensure that this is an FE, HE, cross-Wales response. But just for example in terms of the welcome centres, there's been also contact with ColegauCymru as well as local authorities to look at provision. In terms of reach-out for language pathways to support refugees to integrate, this does include access to Welsh, and for the children as well. I think the other thing that is happening that is really good is that there are refugees arriving with very good language skills who are already—and I think we've heard this from colleagues—actually getting jobs in helping in terms of being able to interpret and start working in terms of teaching support.

I think the point for us has got to be flexibility—we want to have as much flexibility once people arrive here—and discretion. That may be the case in terms of qualifications, access. That's our message to local authorities—that they need to be as open and use their discretion as much as possible. And this of course applies to all of the other issues in terms of biometrics et cetera. If I see that there are barriers emerging, I will raise this with the Minister for Refugees. This is not acceptable. Yes, we know where we are with the visas, but we should have no other barriers. People can't access references and all these issues. They've got to be able to get through straight away to access their needs without necessarily—. I mean, they've fled conflict and war, and that's the situation. I can give you my assurance that if there are barriers, I will be raising them, but if the barriers are here, we should be overcoming them.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 5:22, 17 May 2022

Minister, a family in my own constituency have hosted a Ukrainian family, and all are settling in well, apart from one particular issue, which is that this family are struggling to be reunited with their pets. There's a serious issue here because the little girl involved has special needs and is very much in need of being with those pets. It really is a serious issue, because they're actually considering leaving Wales as a result. It really is a serious matter. But as I understand, the three cats in question are in quarantine in Lancashire, and are being moved somewhere else in England for quarantine, despite the fact that they've passed all their antibodies and appropriate tests. I can see Janet Finch-Saunders agreeing with me, and I know other families in Ukraine have also experienced the same issue as well.

As I understand it, the UK Government has relaxed rules for bringing in pets from Ukraine to support families fleeing that war zone, and it's paying for all the relevant checks that need to be undertaken as well, but there seems to be, for some reason, a different policy position in Wales than there is to England and Scotland. So, for this family, if they were hosted in England or Scotland, their pets would have now been reunited with them already. I think this particular story has hit the Welsh media this afternoon, and it's my understanding that a Welsh Government spokesperson has said this is to protect animal welfare in Wales. But there seems to be no logical reason why there should be a different approach taken in Wales than there is from England and Scotland.

After I've sat down, I will send you the specific details, Minister, but I'd be grateful if you could ask your officials to examine this, not only for this family, but for other families from Ukraine trying to establish themselves here in Wales, and wanting to be reunited with their pets.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:24, 17 May 2022

Thank you very much, Russell George. We do understand how important people's pets are to them and so we want to do everything we can to ensure that people who are seeking refuge in Wales are reunited—you've given one example—with their pets because they have been in quarantine. This is something, again, that I raised at a three-nations meeting last Thursday, and we're going to put this on the agenda when we meet again with the Ministers to look at how we're handling this. But I just have to say that we're in consultation with not just UK Government, but Public Health Wales, the Animal and Plant Health Agency and our local authorities about how we can best support those who bring pets with them. Obviously, it is about safeguarding animal and public health. I just need to say that, before arriving, Ukrainians should contact the Animal and Plant Health Agency. And, of course, our contact centre, 24/7, is dealing with these issues, and we have been supporting refugees to ensure that their pets can come with them.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru 5:25, 17 May 2022

Gweinidog, I'm going to raise school admissions also, because I've been contacted by constituents from Cardiff and also the Vale of Glamorgan. They've contacted their local authorities, they've contacted schools, and they've just had no replies, or no information, or just simply saying the school that they wanted, the closest school that they want to attend, is full. Before being elected here, I used to deal fairly regularly on a pro-bono basis with schools admissions and, surprisingly, the law is probably unnecessarily complicated in this matter. But overall, where there is a will, there is a legal way to ensure that every Ukrainian child gets admitted to the closest school to them. I'm glad to hear that you have provided guidance to local authorities, but, obviously, the message isn't cutting through. What further things can you do, Minister, perhaps in co-operation with the education Minister, to stress to the local authorities that these Ukrainian children need to be admitted to the closest school to their new homes? Diolch yn fawr.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:26, 17 May 2022

Diolch yn fawr. This is something, as I said, that's cross-Government. We're taking stock now, as arrivals come. Clearly, there are some pressures in some schools in terms of catchments, but we will be following this up, with my colleague Jeremy Miles, the education Minister. This, also, has to be local authorities taking the responsibility and making sure that there's good communication with the sponsor families and the refugees as they arrive. And getting them into school as quickly as possible is crucial, going back to the earlier questions about children and their mental health and well-being.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:27, 17 May 2022

(Translated)

I thank the Minister.