7. What initiatives is the Welsh Government undertaking to help small, independent brewers? OQ58070

Small, independent brewers are supported through a wide range of advice and finance available to micro, small and medium-sized businesses in Wales. That help comes, for example, through Business Wales and the Development Bank of Wales.

Thank you, Minister. As you know, this Government is introducing a digital system in its deposit-return scheme that will be incompatible with the DRS schemes being introduced in England and Northern Ireland. This incompatibility will create barriers to trade, increase production costs and, in particular, reduce the choice and availability of beer here. Independent brewers in Wales produce around 19 million pints for the UK market, and increased costs for the new labelling requirements, as well as annual registration and producer fees, and the impact of return containers will likely consume all of their profit, which is typically less than 8 per cent per bottle. Change of production lines to generate country-specific items or stock keeping units is very costly, therefore, small brewers will most likely no longer be able to sell in both the Welsh and English markets, thus massively reducing their overall sales. The online take-back service is also likely to be unachievable for small producers, and this will pretty much end small, independent brewers being able to afford to sell here in Wales. First Minister, as you know, the beer market is exceptionally competitive, and independent brewers are already struggling to compete with large, international producers. What is this Government doing to ensure that there's a joined-up approach on a deposit-return scheme and that Welsh brewers will not be disadvantaged by the different DRS schemes? Thank you.

Well, Llywydd, I think it's important to set out some of the background to the issue that the Member highlights. We had agreed a joint set of proposals for a deposit-return scheme with the UK Government. We took part in a joint consultation on those joint set of proposals with them, and it is only in the post-consultation design of the DRS scheme that the UK Government for England decided to move away from the scope of materials that we had agreed with them would be included within the scheme. So, when the Member asks me what we are doing to secure a joined-up approach, his question is really to be directed to his colleagues in the UK Government, because it is they, not us, who changed their minds about a scheme that we had jointly agreed with them.

And just for those who weren't following the detail of the supplementary question closely, I should point out that what the Member is complaining of is that we will include glass bottles in our scheme, as they do in Scotland, whereas in England they have now decided not to do so. Maybe Janet Finch-Saunders, given the force with which she spoke about the importance of glass bottles today, could help the UK Government to come to a different conclusion on that matter.

Welsh companies will have to have different labelling now because the English Government has decided not to have a common scheme between Scotland, Wales and England. Because they will have to be compliant with the Scottish regulations, these are inevitable for Welsh businesses. It's not a matter of saying, 'If we went in with England, they wouldn't need to do it.' They'll be selling into the Scottish market, and they'll have to do it for them.

In the meantime, there are some mitigating measures that we will discuss with the sector and work with them. We can talk with them about the level of annual registration fee; we will discuss with them the design of the online aspects of the scheme; and we will talk with them about an approach to labelling requirements, so that we can mitigate the difficulties that the UK Government has now caused for small, independent brewers here in Wales.

But, in the end, Llywydd, let's not forget that the DRS is a form of extended producer responsibility. Businesses who place products on the market have to cover the costs of managing the waste of the products that they sell, and that includes recycling at the end of their intended use, and we will continue to pursue that objective here in Wales.