6. Statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution: Justice in Wales

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:10 pm on 24 May 2022.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 5:10, 24 May 2022

First of all, can I welcome both the statement and also the accompanying 160-odd pages? I haven't done any word counts in there, but we are looking forward, as a committee, to getting our teeth into this as well. I welcome the focus that both you and the Minister for Social Justice are bringing to this now; it's really welcome indeed.

Just to touch on a couple of issues. During the consideration of justice matters within our broad remit, we've heard evidence relevant to the further devolution of powers on justice in Wales and, indeed, policing. I note the comments made by yourself but also the previous speakers from Plaid Cymru and the Conservative benches who, in different ways, made both the case for devolution of justice. But in November last year, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, the former chair of the Commission on Justice in Wales, brought to our attention several areas where the administration of justice in Wales could be improved. The importance, for example, of having an institutional infrastructure for justice in Wales and developing various all-Wales bodies, particularly all-Wales criminal justice and all-Wales family justice boards, as both crime and family issues are so very important in Wales. So, if the Minister could helpfully expand on that.

Another key point he made was that this closer co-ordination between justice and other parts of Government, which the Counsel General has touched on in his statement today, in particular in health and education. He indicated that it would be easier to achieve that co-ordination if justice had been devolved to Wales, but in the absence of this, Minister, what more can be done—that practical collaboration you were talking about on youth justice and women's justice, and also things like the drug and alcohol court as well?

One of the final remarks Lord Thomas made during our session was in relation to civil justice. He noted that there isn't a proper civil court centre in Wales. He felt that the Cardiff Civil Justice Centre is substandard, and he hoped that the Welsh Government and the Ministry of Justice can work to give us what we properly need in this respect and what the capital city actually deserves as well.

Counsel General, we're looking at broader justice issues. We had a recent evidence session with the Law Council of Wales. We're engaging with legal practitioners on the challenges they face. We will publish a summary of our engagement very soon, which might be helpful to you, and, of course, we've engaged with you as well, and the First Minister, on the justice-related spending. So, just to turn to a couple of things here. Are you confident that you have the capacity to deliver some of these outcomes here in Wales, in particular if legislation is necessary as well in relation to the single-tier tribunal system, for example? How will you evaluate your outcomes for your justice work against spending? It's something we've touched upon in correspondence. And finally, how are you going to report back here to progress on these matters as well? But we really welcome the focus that you've given to these issues—long overdue and thoroughly welcome.