Well, thank you for a number of those questions. I read with interest the evidence session of Lord Thomas with your committee, the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, because it is something that is of direct interest. I think the one thing that is important is, of course, the all-Wales bodies that were discussed some time back by the Thomas commission. Of course, many of those in the areas of crime and family justice are, in fact, now in development, established or operating. So, there is already a move and a change scenario within the justice system. So, change has been taking place.

You raise the issue in terms of the need for ongoing co-ordination of health, education, social services, housing and so on, and, of course, that is happening to a degree. The point we keep making is, of course, it is not an integrated part of a comprehensive justice system. It is picking and choosing bits and pieces that we can try and intervene in, rather than looking comprehensively over the long term and planning, rather than the whims of changing Governments or changing Ministers from time to time. And, of course, the clearer areas in terms of the areas of probation, police, problem-solving courts—the things that we would want to do to try and restore local justice, but also, increasingly, to give access to justice.

The civil justice centre issue—the Minister for Social Justice and I met with the Lord Chancellor. I think the best we had out of discussions that we've had is basically that the civil justice centre was going to get its lift repaired and possibly a water fountain. Quite frankly, I think the approach to the civil justice centre, when you look at the importance of courts, of commercial work and property work to the legal economy, when you look at centres of justice like Bristol, Manchester, and you look at London and you look at Edinburgh and, indeed, you look at Northern Ireland, all you can say is that what we have within Wales is recognised as a disgrace, but there does not appear to be any motivation or intention to do anything about it. Lord Wolfson was sympathetic, but it was quite clear that nothing was there. And I'll say this: when we're looking at the billions of pounds that are looking to be spent on refurbishing Westminster, you know, well, perhaps just a small amount of something like that coming to actually have a decent justice centre in the capital city of one of the nations of the UK would be quite important.

In terms of the legislation on tribunals, of course, the work of the Law Commission has been absolutely invaluable. Obviously, it's still being analysed and considered very carefully and, of course, further statements in due course on the legislative programme will be there. But I think that it is something that we do have to do, and that's why it was important that it was within that.

In terms of the evaluation, clearly, things that we want to do need to be evidence based and there are real issues, which are acknowledged throughout, in terms of the disaggregation of data, having proper data on which we can actually formulate policy as it applies to Wales, and isn't it a disgrace that that actually doesn't exist at the moment, that we have to basically look for various sources of trying to extract data in order to assess and evaluate justice policies? So, that is something that is being looked at very carefully in terms of how that can be improved, and there are measures already developing in terms of acquiring that data, but it should not be the case that it is a sort of add-on possibility, rather than something that goes to the core of policy.

And in reporting back, as I've said, the paper is about a conversation. This is not going away and it's something that I hope to be reporting on on a very regular basis, not least of all to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee.