1. Is the Welsh Government planning to undertake a scoping exercise to assess the amount of extra resources that would be required from the UK Treasury to run a sustainable, successful devolved system of justice in Wales? OQ58120

Thank you for the question. We set out principles for a devolved justice system in our publication recently, ‘Delivering Justice for Wales’. We will use this to co-produce a vision of how justice can be delivered better, through conversations with those with expertise in the justice system. Considering resources will be an important element of that.

Despite a recent tweet from Andrew R.T. Davies declaring that the Welsh Conservatives would never support the devolution of justice, I, and, I know, you too, Counsel General, would agree with the words of Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd that it's a matter of when rather than if justice is devolved to this place. With things moving very quickly in Westminster, the devolution of justice could happen sooner than we might expect. To do that, we will need a fair transfer of funding, although personally I think that devolving justice to Wales would save money for taxpayers. But does the Government know—and if they don't know, when will they know—how much money they will need from the Treasury in the UK?

Well, thank you for your supplementary. I certainly agree with you that it was disappointing that, at the Conservative Party conference, a statement was made that there would be no devolution of justice. This was before they'd even had an opportunity to read the document, to read the arguments that are set out within that document. I think that is a very disappointing approach, because it always seems to me it's important to consider the evidence before having a knee-jerk reaction. That being as it is, one of the issues of course in terms of the devolution of justice is that there are certain areas where there is ongoing work with the UK Government. And, of course, as you know, there are the Law Commission's proposals in respect of tribunals, which is an important element of our justice system, which will be the subject in due course of legislation. 

Knowing the cost of the justice system is actually very complex. It's one that would depend, really, I think, on negotiations with Government, negotiations over the transfer of responsibilities, what we mean by justice. We know that when the Thomas commission considered this, when they looked at all the aspects of justice, whether it be the tribunals, the areas of social justice that we're involved in, the areas of police and crime commissioners and our contributions to policing and so on, it was estimated at around £442 million. So, we already spend and contribute an enormous amount towards that. 

Considering the development of justice and considering how those negotiations will develop in due course—. And I agree with you that, even if it is not this Government that is agreeable to the devolution of justice, I'm fairly certain that it will certainly be on the agenda of the next Government to consider the devolution of justice, and certainly all the implications of that will be under consideration.