The referendum for this place was very narrowly decided on. There was no guarantee there was going to be a referendum for this place. It came about because Tony Blair and Ron Davies had a conversation. I don't think we needed a referendum. The Labour Government had just been elected with a massive majority, the Liberal Democrats were supporting the Senedd, Plaid Cymru were supporting the Senedd, what was the point in a referendum in 1997? I didn't support it then and I don't support referendums now. They represent the failure of democracy. Why didn't we have a referendum for police and crime commissioner posts? Why didn't we have a referendum for the transferrable vote system used for them? We didn't because we didn't need one, and we don't need a referendum for this.

Any arguments that you have against reforming a legislature, based on the arguments that have been put forward by Darren Millar today, and particularly with regard to calling for a referendum, are fatally undermined by support for the House of Lords. The House of Lords is an institution—[Interruption.] I'm not going to give you another intervention. The House of Lords is an institution that is continually growing, and it is time for that to be reformed. If you got rid of 571—[Interruption.] No, I'm not giving you another intervention. If you got rid of 571 peers, and directly elected them, you'd have plenty of room for 36 more Members. You've already got rid of Members of Parliament from Wales. That gives you plenty of room for more Senedd Members. You've got rid of Members of the European Parliament from Wales. That gives you plenty of room for more Senedd Members. So, I don't believe that that is a fair position to take.

Coming to Jane Dodds's two points, on the single transferrable vote, I agree with her. I think she's right, the single transferrable vote would be better, but if you want to do that, I don't think that would be achievable by 2026, to be frank. I think what we've got here is a compromise. I know people on these benches who I've spoken to privately are compromising on their beliefs. I suspect a lot over there are compromising. The Conservatives are being unwilling to compromise here, which is unfortunate. If we are going to get this through by 2026, then we must vote in favour of this report today. I would prefer to see a single transferrable vote. The boundary issue, though, I'm not so bothered about, because that has already, as Alun Davies said in his intervention, gone through a boundary commission process.

My final point is that if scrutiny is to be improved, what we need to have is the politicians in this Chamber scrutinising properly this Government. That means coming into this Chamber not with a speech that was written by an adviser 24 hours before, but actually coming in here and speaking to the debate. But it also requires us to have a civic society, a public sphere, that challenges Government too, and we need support for that. [Interruption.] Dirprwy Lywydd, can I take that intervention?