2. Will the Minister provide an update on the shortage of care support workers in Wales? OQ58157

We are supporting a range of recruitment initiatives. We have introduced the real living wage for care workers and will make further improvements to terms and conditions. We strongly support joint approaches by local authorities and health boards to improve patient flow from hospitals into care services in the community.

Can I thank the Minister for that response? Too often, the only discussion of social care is about its effect on hospital discharge. It's far more important than that; social care is important not just for hospital discharge, but the quality of life for the people receiving it, and, dare I say, about stopping people having to go into hospital because they've been dealt with in their own homes and they're able to live a good life in their own homes. I think sometimes we seem to think that it's all about health—well, actually, that it's all about hospitals: 'For health, see hospitals; for health and social care, see health.' Does the Minister agree with me that we need to improve retention and recruitment via pay and conditions of employment, and also creating a national wage rate similar to that for nurses? 

I thank Mike Hedges for that supplementary question. Obviously, I agree with him how important social care is for people to live in their own homes and to live happy and fulfilled lives. As the Member will know, we've set up a social care fair work forum, made up of employers, unions and other bodies, and they advised us on how to introduce the real living wage. Their next steps now will be to look at how we can improve the terms and conditions of social care workers. I think we're all agreed that there's absolutely no doubt that social care workers need to have their terms and conditions improved. We are developing a strategic national framework for commissioned care and support, and that will set national standards. We're also committed to creating a national care service where care would be free at the point of need. We're awaiting the report from the expert group, which is looking at recommendations for the national care service, and I think we will have a lot more to say on this subject after they've reported.

Deputy Minister, I've heard from a number of carers in my region who are coming under significant financial pressure and are not sure that they will be able to continue with their work in the sector because their wages just don't keep up with their bills, particularly their fuel bills. I recently heard from a domiciliary care worker who has worked as a carer for more than 30 years. This carer is spending £90 a week now, and using their days off to collect PPE equipment in advance of their shifts. I wonder if you can tell me what further steps to those taken earlier this year the Government would consider to ensure that we retain and recruit our care staff, and particularly what steps we can take to support our care workers with fuel, which I'm sure you would agree are essential in a rural area. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much, Jane Dodds, for that question. Certainly, we know that the financial pressures that Jane describes are something that are affecting everybody in the community, and specifically on carers. I'm sure Jane is referring to carers and unpaid carers as well. The cost of travelling between different calls that they have to do, I know is putting a huge strain on their resources. I think, referring to the answer I gave to Mike Hedges's question, it's absolutely essential that we improve their terms and conditions, and that, obviously, includes what they're paid for petrol to travel between different calls. Also, I'm sure Jane is aware of the £10 million grant that we gave to local authorities in order to enable them to purchase electric cars that would be available for domiciliary carers to use, and also to be used to help pay for driving lessons for carers as well. So, it certainly is very high up in our consideration and there are things that we will certainly be looking at.

Thank you, Jane, for raising this issue. Minister, last week, the BBC reported that care workers were thinking of giving up because of the increase in fuel costs, making journeys incredibly expensive. Bethan Evans from Ceredigion regularly drives more than 600 miles a week, visiting clients in their own homes across west Wales. The rural fuel duty relief scheme, which takes another 5p off fuel duty, currently applies only to remote parts of Scotland, the isles of Scilly and a handful of rural areas in England. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government about the potential extension of the rural fuel duty relief scheme to parts of Wales, and if this is not an option, what else might you consider to reduce the risk of losing carers like Bethan? Thank you.

This is a very important issue. Obviously, we welcome any moves that there have been on the fuel duty and would welcome further moves. Again, it’s crucially important that carers, particularly in places like Ceredigion, have access to fuel because it’s absolutely necessary for them, to help the vulnerable people, that they have to travel to work. So, I think that we need a whole package of measures in order to look at this and this is something that we are discussing with the local authorities about what we can do in order to also increase the amount of money that is paid per mile by the local authorities to the carers. Because some payments are below the cost, so there is a lot of work to do in that field.