Item 6 is next, and this is a debate on the Equality and Social Justice Committee report, 'Annual scrutiny of the Future Generations Commissioner: An update'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion, Jenny Rathbone.

Motion NDM8025 Jenny Rathbone

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the Equality and Social Justice Committee report ‘Annual scrutiny of the Future Generations Commissioner: An Update’, laid in the Table Office on 11 April 2022.

Motion moved.

Diolch. The Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 is getting noticed, both by other nations and by Welsh organisations not covered by the Act. For example, I was delighted to see that NFU Cymru's future agriculture policy was framed in the context of the seven principles of the Act, and that's really excellent, to see that happening. But given this external interest in the well-being of future generations, it's really important that the Senedd and the Welsh Government are seen to be operating fully in line with our own Act. We can't have, 'Do what I say, not what I do.' The serious times we live in, in any case, oblige us all to constantly review smarter ways of working so we can maximise our ability to respond to this unprecedented cost-of-living crisis and the climate emergency, both of which require a public as well as a personal and private response.

So, to remind you, then, in November the Equality and Social Justice Committee held a joint debate with the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee on the implementation of the Act, reflecting the work of the auditor general and the Public Accounts Committee's work in the fifth Parliament. The remit of the Equality and Social Justice Committee specifically includes scrutinising the well-being of future generations in the sixth Senedd, though, as I said in November, every committee must see it as their responsibility to incorporate the principles and aims of the Act into their day-to-day work. And there's obviously more that we can all do to ensure that it is embedded into all aspects of our work.

The report we're debating today arose out of our committee's annual scrutiny of the well-being of future generations commissioner back in February. All four of its recommendations have been accepted variously by PAPAC and the Welsh Government, so this is not about probing further why x or y recommendation has been rejected or only accepted in principle. Today the Senedd must address the fundamental issues that flow from acceptance of these recommendations, and these go well beyond the efficiency and effectiveness of the current well-being of future generations commissioner as postholder, and her office. We have to ensure that all our independent commissioners and their offices are using their resources and their scrutiny powers to maximum effect.

So, as Sophie Howe's seven-year term of office comes to an end in February next year, this is a really good time to be reviewing the funding arrangements for the well-being of future generations commissioner, and all these other independent scrutinising bodies. PAPAC, with its additional public administration responsibilities, must get to grips with the rationale behind the resourcing arrangements of all five Wales commissioners. All these posts were created at different times and with different legislative drivers. Page 7 of our report spells out that the well-being of future generations commissioner has a budget of £1.5 million, and that compares with, for example, £3.3 million for the Welsh Language Commissioner and over £5 million for the public services ombudsman. The children's commissioner was created in the first Senedd, the others created in subsequent Senedds, and there's no coherence, really, around the way in which the funding and resourcing has been given to them. So, this is a good opportunity to get some proper underpinning to that, and so we must look forward to the systematic review of how Wales's commissioners are resourced and whether this adequately reflects their current remit. Are they achieving maximum efficiency in the way they carry out their duties for the whole of Wales, or could they be doing things differently, sharing some of their back-room expenses, et cetera?

Recommendation 2 was for the Welsh Government. We simply can't go on adding to the alphabet soup of public bodies without there being additional resource implications. An overcomplicated administrative landscape makes it difficult for stakeholder organisations to understand how and where decisions are made, so it must be impenetrable for the Welsh citizen. I was delighted to hear the Minister for Climate Change say this morning that the marine energy plan has been rolled into the net-zero plan, but we need a lot more of that intellectual coherence to ensure that governance is understood and easy to scrutinise.

The future generations report back in 2020 recommended that the Welsh Government should stop complicating an already complex landscape, and the Minister for Social Justice has told us that there will be fewer than 10 additional public bodies subject to the well-being of future generations Act, and there's a review taking place, including a public consultation, into the workings of the Act and of the commissioner. We must be mindful that any increase in the future generation commissioner's duties either has resource implications or, alternatively, it potentially dilutes the commissioner's capacity to scrutinise the growing list of bodies she is responsible for.

So, officials are looking into the scope and responsibilities of the Act and whether or not the Act needs revising. There is a potential for a conflict of interest there, which the Senedd needs to be mindful of. Back in February, in our scrutiny session, the commissioner raised specific concerns about the newest layer, which is the corporate joint committees, and the interrelationship between public services boards, regional partnership boards and CJCs is unclear even to the commissioner, who has the job of scrutinising how well they're interacting with the well-being of future generations Act. 

The commissioner also reminded us about the implementation gap, something we often talk about—the tendency to push out legislation, policy, guidance and direction from Government with little understanding of how it will be delivered or adequately resourced in practice. During our scrutiny, the commissioner also reminded us of her powers under section 20 of the Act.

Her review of procurement had found that public bodies were not adequately applying the future generations Act to their procurement decisions. This is something that, of course, our committee will revisit in our Stage 1 scrutiny of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill. Sophie Howe is now conducting a section 20 review into the machinery of Welsh Government, which is a timely piece of work in the context of this debate.

Recommendation 3 called for the Welsh Government to set out how it uses training and professional development to ensure its own employees fully understand and comply with the Act. It's a very large institution, and the Minister cannot simply be in charge of everything that officials are doing. So, it's really important that the Permanent Secretary is ensuring that all layers of Welsh Government understand the importance of the Act.

Recommendation 4, also accepted by the Government, sets out plans for embedding the Act in all aspects of public life that could be shaped by this legislation and making sure that the implementation of the Act is fit for purpose.

So, I very much look forward to the way that the Minister is going to take forward that communication, and particularly with wider society in the context of all of the other things going on in our lives, including the climate emergency. So, there are positive signs of progress in terms of implementing the Act, and it's great that all of our recommendations have been accepted. However, there is ample room for improvement, particularly in relation to the gap between policy and practice. And, given the cross-cutting nature of the Act, we're very pleased to be able to raise these issues on the Senedd stage, because at the end of the day it's all our responsibility. 

I'm pleased to speak in this debate as Chair of the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, which you kindly referred to. The committee, which has the acronym PAPAC, has long-term interest in the implementation of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, with our predecessor committee having reported on 'Delivering for Future Generations: the story so far' in March 2020.

Last November, I was pleased to share the lead on a joint debate with the Chair of the Equality and Social Justice Committee on the Welsh Government's response to that report, as well as its responses to the first statutory report by the future generations commissioner and by the Auditor General for Wales, published in May 2020, on the Act. That joint committee debate, the first of its kind, demonstrated cross-party commitment to securing the successful implementation of the Act and ensuring that our public services deliver efficiently and sustainably for our future generations. I thank the Equality and Social Justice Committee for their work in this area and welcome this report from them, which builds upon the work undertaken by the previous Public Accounts Committee and reinforces many of the concerns raised by it. 

Recommendation 1 of this report is directed at the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee and asked us to carry out a review of the resourcing arrangements of Wales's commissioners. I note that the report acknowledges that each commissioner has different roles and responsibilities and that resourcing needs vary accordingly, but clarification of the justification behind different resource allocations is lacking and warrants further scrutiny.

The report highlights that the different roles and offices of the Welsh commissioners have grown in a piecemeal fashion. It is the responsibility of the Welsh Government to better justify how each commissioner is resourced, but I agree that a review by PAPAC, which would be the first time such scrutiny has been undertaken, would be beneficial and would provide important insights for the appointment of future commissioners. I’m therefore pleased to confirm that PAPAC has accepted this recommendation and we will undertake scrutiny into the work of Welsh commissioners in autumn of this year.

The Equality and Social Justice Committee report refers to the complex landscape within which implementation of the Act operates. This is an issue our predecessor committee raised, concluding that the, and I quote,

'complex and bureaucratic landscape of partnership bodies and plethora of legislative and reporting requirements has made it difficult for public bodies to adopt this Act and has, at times, actively disincentivised it.'

In recently updating PAPAC on the implementation of this recommendation, the Minister highlighted that the outcome of the Welsh Government's review of strategic partnerships contained clear recommendations on practical actions to simplify the partnership landscape. We also noted from the update the commitment in the co-operation agreement between the Labour Government and Plaid Cymru to keep regional partnership arrangements under review, which overlaps with the recommendations of our predecessor committee. We therefore hope the Equality and Social Justice Committee’s conclusion that the Welsh Government should provide greater leadership and clarity around how different bodies interact within the context and framework of the Act will give further impetus to simplifying the overly complex landscape and remove a significant barrier to implementation of the Act.

During the last Plenary debate on the implementation of the Act, I noted that successful implementation depended upon cultural change that needs to begin with awareness and understanding at all levels of public bodies. It is disappointing that the Equality and Social Justice Committee report concludes that, while encouraging progress is being made in terms of implementation of the Act, there is ample room for improvement, particularly in relation to the gap between policy and practice. I therefore endorse recommendation 4 of the committee’s report, which asks the Welsh Government to set out its plans for embedding the Act to ensure that all aspects of public life are shaped by the legislation and that the measures in place to monitor and evaluate progress in implementing the Act are fit for purpose.

In summing up, continued collaborative scrutiny of implementation of the Act across the Senedd is essential going forward. We hope that the response from the Welsh Government to this report and the ongoing work being undertaken in response to the previous Public Accounts Committee report is progress towards better implementation, but this remains slow. I look forward to working with the Equality and Social Justice Committee and to ensuring that the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee will maintain a key role in monitoring progress and holding the Welsh Government, and others tasked with implementing the Act, to account. Diolch yn fawr.

There are many things to celebrate in terms of how the innovation of the well-being of future generations Act and the work of the future generations commissioner help to steer the vision and implementation of policy, but we also know that there are many challenges. As a member of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, which has been scrutinising the work of the commissioner, I agree that there are a number of important questions that we do need to look at and resolve if we truly want to see the Act reaching its full potential, and the very real need for long-term thinking in drawing up policy that is appropriate and has, at last, become more prominent recently in light of the pandemic, the cost-of-living crisis, and as we grapple with the climate emergency.

In her evidence to the committee, the commissioner set out a number of practical problems that are a barrier to the effectiveness of the Act and the work of her office in ensuring a focus on the long-term impact of policy, and the power of co-operation to anticipate possible problems. One of the most significant issues, and one of the most concerning issues perhaps, is that implementation gap between policy and the practical steps that are taken. It was a cause of real concern that the commissioner could describe in such clear terms the tendency of Government to create legislation, policy and to publish guidance without much understanding of how all of that would be delivered, or how sufficient resources could be practically provided. 

It appears from her evidence to us that there isn't an adequate understanding by some public bodies and much of the civil service itself of what the Act requires of them, and that there is therefore an over-reliance on her office as a result of that lack of expertise within public bodies, which swallows up capacity and resources. It's good to hear therefore from the Permanent Secretary in his response to the committee's recommendation that there is a redoubling of efforts to put this right, and to hasten the change needed to help refocus public bodies, and to train the civil service when it comes to an understanding of the Act.

I very much hope that this will take the advisory pressure off the commissioner's shoulders, and release her to focus on delivering her own remit in ensuring the implementation of the Act, including her powerful and valuable section 20 inquiries. The implementation gap must become a focus, I think, in ensuring that the well-being of future generations Act is truly worthy of the high and deserved praise that it's been given internationally.

The scrutiny report, as we've heard, has also given us an opportunity to take stock of the resources provided to deliver the objectives of the Act, and it's clear that the budget available to the commissioner's office is unbalanced as compared to what's available to other commissioners, and is inadequate for the work involved—work, as we've heard, that is increasing. The work of the commissioner, of course, is very different, and we wouldn't want to see resources being compared in a simplistic manner. But it is encouraging that there is agreement to assess the responsibilities and budget of all commissioners, as was suggested by the committee. 

This is an opportunity, a real opportunity, for us to reflect on one of our unique laws, and to empower the Act. We can show other nations how they can safeguard communities, the environment, and to make sustainable development a cornerstone of our governance arrangements. Hopefully, there is a desire to do this to give the Act teeth, and to give the commissioner strength to allow her to develop to her full potential. Thank you.  

Let me start by thanking our Chair, Jenny Rathbone, my fellow Members and the committee clerks and researchers. As a committee, we have set ourselves the objective of championing equality, social justice and the well-being of future generations across the Senedd, so scrutinising the implementation of the well-being of future generations Act is a crucial part of this. And as we come to seven years since the Act was passed, now is a particularly poignant time at the start of our sixth Senedd to reflect and present ideas for improvements in how it is enacted. Our committee report has four key recommendations, so it may be small, but it is also mighty to ensure that our first-of-its-kind legislation is as effective as possible for all.

Let me start by saying that I am pleased that recommendation 2 has been accepted by Welsh Government—to carry out an evaluation looking at the scope of the commissioner's work and responsibilities, and look to support future expansion. As you've just said, Sioned, there are lots of reasons why this needs to be done. In particular, I believe exploring the possibility of the commissioner's office being able to take on casework could be hugely beneficial to the people of Wales. I know that in my own constituency, Bridgend, we recently had a campaign where the local community came out and wanted to protect Brackla fields, as we call it, and they wrote to the future generations commissioner, who wrote them a letter back, which really did give them a big boost in terms of doing their campaign. But I think that if they could have had more guidance in terms of how they could have fought for their campaign in line with the legislation, that would have made a huge difference. Furthermore, part of the recommendation is that an evaluation should be undertaken in time for the appointment of the new future generations commissioner in 2023. So, as we begin to look to the next era of the office, I would also just like to thank our first future generations commissioner, Sophie Howe, and her team for all that she continues to do in providing evidence and suggestions for how to strengthen the office going forward, and the goals.

I am also pleased the Welsh Government has accepted recommendation 4, in particular committing to set out plans for how to monitor and evaluate progress in implementing the Act and making sure that it's fit for purpose across public bodies. Again, I draw on what is happening in my own constituency, where we have lots of wonderful projects and plans in the pipeline for regeneration. However, when I met with the future generations commissioner to have a chat about some of these and whether or not they were in line with the plans and the legislation, it's not something that they can look into at the time; it's something that will be assessed later on with these periodic reports that are done. Unfortunately, that means that even though it may be unintentional that it hasn't been in line, it is lacking, and decisions have already been made that cannot be undone.

I'd like to thank the Permanent Secretary for responding to our recommendation 3, relating to providing training and professional development to ensure that Welsh Government employees fully understand and comply with the Act, and I welcome the update on the recently launched Welsh Government 2025 three-year programme for organisational development, and also a platform so that the workforce can feed back and talk about the changes and improvements that they would like to see. As we've already heard, the commissioner did make the point that she feels that the Welsh Government has relied quite heavily on their office to give them support, and to feed back on the work that it's doing and if it's in line with the goals and the legislation. And so, hopefully training will mean that that comes down and that the commissioner's office has time to do other work.

I'll end by saying that although not accepted, I do think that the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, when it has capacity, should carry out a review of the resourcing arrangements of the Wales commissioners. We've heard from Jenny and Sioned about the reasons why this is very relevant, and I do think that possibly that could include sharing of some back-room functions and staff across the board.

Overall, I am satisfied with the Welsh Government response—thank you, Minister—and I'm confident that they will be taken seriously. I really do look forward to seeing how our world-leading legislation will strengthen and improve outcomes for the well-being of our future generations.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Thank you, Chair, and my fellow committee Members. As the current future generations commissioner's term draws to a close, it is useful to consider the impact the commissioner and her office have had. Whilst it's not always easy being the first in such a groundbreaking role, it is an opportunity to set a standard. The commissioner has not shied away from contributing to challenging and difficult subjects such as the M4 relief road, climate change and public services. Naturally, it would be easy for politicians to attack the commissioner for not focusing on those things they want her to do, or to expect the commissioner to side with them on a particular issue. But that's not what this role is about; the commissioner's role is to challenge all of us about the decisions we take and how to ensure those decisions are rooted in the principles of sustainability, futureproofing, what we do and what we spend to safeguard the interests of those future generations who will face so many challenges.

There is so much that we have expected the commissioner to do in this first term. I for one have been hugely concerned at the continued level of social and economic inequality in Wales, and perhaps the next commissioner will take note. In 2018 the Equality and Human Rights Commission recommended the implementation of a socioeconomic duty. This means public bodies must have due regard to the need to reduce social inequalities. They set out a series of evidence-based objectives, one of them being to ensure that people's life chances are not held back by barriers in their way. The facts are simple: 200,000 children are in poverty, with 90,000 in serious poverty; a quarter of parents are frequently skipping meals; and 45 per cent of households are in fuel poverty. Poverty can have a major impact on children in their later lives. Poverty can have an adverse affect on their education, so opportunities to develop prosperous careers will be more difficult. If a child skips meals, it can have an impact on their overall health later on. Socioeconomic duty was commenced to improve the lives of those on low incomes. The poorest households in Wales spend 26.2 per cent of their income on energy and food. This is one of the highest figures in the UK. With the cost-of-living crisis, this will undoubtedly rise. The changing economic picture means that Government and the public bodies need to think, work and deliver differently if we are to be agile and creative enough to respond to these present challenges that threaten the development of current and future generations. 

As we enter the final year of the current future generations commissioner's term, a review of how the role is resourced is urgently needed. The commissioner has demonstrated significant impartiality in discharging her duties, tackling big issues that have shown the value of the office, thinking about the bigger picture and how to ensure that all public bodies, including Welsh Ministers, comply with duties placed upon them. The Welsh Government has not enabled her to fulfil her role due to the lack of budget. And in my view, if we are committed to this role being a success, then the resourcing has to be a consideration. The commissioner's role includes supporting 44 public bodies, 16 public services boards, with 368 well-being objectives. In her own words, this has been described as an impossible task. In its current state, I don't think the future generations commissioner is fit for purpose and can deliver the improvements needed for Wales. If the commissioner role is to continue, the Welsh Government need to ensure the office is properly resourced to deliver the requirements of the Act. Thank you very much.

I'd also like to put on record my thanks to the Chair, to colleagues on the committee, to the clerking team and to the researchers for the piece of work that's been undertaken. And I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank the future generations commissioner for groundbreaking work, for consistent and constructive challenge that has been offered to policy makers, and for being fiercely independent.

I'd like to just speak briefly to recommendation 1, if I may. As you can see in the report from the committee, £13 million of taxpayers' money is invested in the offices of commissioners and the public services ombudsman. And I think it would be hugely, hugely beneficial to examine what functions could be collaborated and combined in order to drive savings to the front line, in order to make sure that excellence is shared across each of the offices, because they do excel in many different ways. For example, the future generations office I think excels in terms of communications and research excellence; other offices excel in terms of advocacy work. And I think it would be very valuable for each of the commissioner's offices to be able to examine what excellence, what particular strengths can be shared and combined. But such a review shouldn't be undertaken in isolation; it shouldn't be viewed as a stand-alone piece of work. So, I'd urge the Welsh Government itself to look at what functions of other bodies and organisations could be shared in the spirit of collaboration, in the spirit of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, in order to drive excellence, to share excellence and to get as much investment to the front line as possible. Diolch.

I call on the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to thank members of the Equality and Social Justice Committee for their report on the annual scrutiny of the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales and for your contributions today. I very much welcome the continuation of the conversation we've been having in the Senedd about how we can use the well-being of future generations legislation to put Wales on a more sustainable path.

Today's debate is about the work of the commissioner and her annual report, and I want to start by saying that I'm immensely grateful for the work of the commissioner and her office in supporting sustainable changes across public bodies in Wales, and thank her and her team for establishing the office in such a powerful and significant way. The well-being of future generations Act challenges and enables us all to think about the long term, as has been said, so that we can collectively leave a better legacy for future generations. And the commissioner role is an essential and now internationally recognised part of the implementation of the Act, as a result of the work and the influence of the commissioner and her team, and I'm encouraged by the commissioner's reports, which highlight good practice across Wales in bringing this Act to life.

Our action and leadership on the well-being of future generations agenda is accelerating in this Government term, and we're maximising every opportunity to deliver on our well-being objectives, identifying areas where we can integrate approaches and contribute to shaping Wales's future. I'm particularly pleased that the committee and the commissioner have welcomed our continued strengthening of political commitment and leadership on this agenda, and it's a cross-Government commitment, clearly, as the improved integration and application of the Act is embedded in the way that has been brought forward, again, by the committee and in the debate today, so that it is brought forward for that application at a strategic-policy level.

Turning to the committee's report, we have, as has been recognised, accepted recommendations 2 and 4. In recommendation 2, we recognise that expanding the list of bodies subject to the Act will increase the number of bodies that the commissioner's general duty and functions apply to. And I want to assure the Chair of the committee and Members that we're in discussions with the commissioner's office on the financial implications on her office. But I've also asked officials to explore the scope and need for evaluation of the Act, which could include an assessment of the role and functions of the commissioner, and I'll provide more information to the committee on this evaluation in due course, and would welcome the committee's engagement in this work.

Recommendation 3 of the report concerns the training and professional development of the Welsh Government civil service. It is a matter for the Permanent Secretary, who has provided a separate response to the committee. But I think we have got examples, and I'll give a couple, of this change of direction and the way in which this is being implemented, the well-being of future generations Act, and has had a huge impact on the policy development and the delivery of policy, and then service development, by our civil service.

On recommendation 4, this concerns plans for embedding the Act. I do want to outline some of the actions we're taking to embed the Act across public life and also to recognise that this is a key point from the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee as well. Our programme for government, with the 10 well-being objectives at its heart, demonstrates the central role of the Act in our thinking and policy making. We now have in place 50 national well-being indicators and nine national milestones and that helps us monitor progress towards our seven well-being goals. Alongside our future trends report, these mechanisms reflect best practice in responding to the sustainable development Bill's agenda and ensuring the well-being of future generations framework remains relevant to Wales in 2022 and into the long term. Our well-being of future generations national stakeholder forum is very important. It continues to advise and support us, and I recently attended a forum session, which was discussing the importance of diversity within the well-being of future generations agenda, to ensure our pursuit of the well-being goals holds no-one back and leaves no-one behind. And this event was important in itself because it was instrumental in getting public bodies to share good practice with each other, not just addressing these from their own perspectives, but to share good practice, so that there's a lot of follow-up from that, and just showing how implementation can be delivered, often, when it's in partnership. So, that was a really good example of how we are embedding the Act. But building on the report's findings, we will, and are, looking at ways in which we can better communicate the actions we're taking to embed the Act further in how we work.

Just a few standout examples of where the Act has underpinned our work at a local level: we've had a couple of examples from Members today, as well as in public services boards and in Welsh Government. And, again, I thank the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee for also recognising those examples of good practice where public bodies have changed the way they work, and the outcomes of that is what we are looking for. Communities and regions across Wales have been inspired by the Valleys Regional Park initiative, and it's a good example, bringing partners together to think about the long-term collaboration with stakeholders, involving communities to get the most out of the unique and valuable Welsh landscapes, combining nature with community spirit, economic development, educating people about climate issues, ensuring skills are taught across the area. And thank you, Chair, for the reference to the NFU in adopting the framework of this Act.

Our public services boards have also used the Act as a catalyst for positive change. One example: the north Wales research and insight partnership, bringing together teams from the four north Wales PSBs, along with the regional partnership board—interesting there how that's come together. Wrexham Glyndŵr University, Data Cymru and Co-production Network for Wales—they're developing innovative approaches to citizen engagement, including the citizen analysis pilot, just demonstrating a firm commitment to involving citizens in their work.

So, finally from me, Deputy Llywydd, we have two examples in the Welsh Government of ways in which we've used the Act very proactively: the anti-racist Wales action plan, the pilot on basic income—I'm making a statement shortly on this—and we do share with the committee and the commissioner an ambition of how we use our well-being of future generations Act to continually learn, improve how Government and the public sector works in Wales. There's much more that we can do, clearly, but I hope my examples of practice in responding to the debate, delivering the key tenets of the Act, will provide encouragement to Members. I welcome collaborative scrutiny and I look forward to continuing to work with the Equality and Social Justice Committee, so that Government and public bodies enabled by the Act can play their part in delivering the seven well-being goals for Wales.

I call the committee Chair to reply to the debate.

Thank you very much. So, we started by hearing from Mark Isherwood, as Chair of the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee. Obviously, lots of warm words about the importance of this work. What I didn't hear from your contribution was a timescale for the work that you need to do. Because we really do need to know how you're going to carry it out and when you might reach some conclusions that are going to be very important, as we move forward in the appointment of the next future generations commissioner.

I'm sorry if you missed it. I stated that it's in our work programme and we'll be doing this in the autumn session of the Senedd. We'll be treating this as a priority matter and not something to take weeks and months before we've got anything to report.

Thank you, Mark, and I'm sorry if I missed that—that's really important to have on the public record, because it is vital that—. This is a very good time to be doing this work, because we know that we've had an absolutely excellent appointment in Sophie Howe for this particular role, because of the prominence that she has given to the Act and the way in which public bodies need to comply with it.

So, now really is the time to review the role of the well-being of future generations commissioner's office, but also to look at all the other independent people whose job it is to independently scrutinise public bodies. So, thank you very much indeed for that, but I agree with you also on the points you made about the importance of cultural change, making people aware and also understanding what the words on the page actually mean in the way we translate policy into action.

Sioned Williams dwelt on recommendation 2 in relation to training and—3, I beg your pardon, in relation to training and professional development of Welsh Government staff and the importance of the Welsh Government not over-relying on the office of the future generations commissioner, which happens to be co-located in our capital city. I think geographical proximity, obviously, often plays a role in all these things. It's really important that the Welsh Government is making sure that all its officials understand the importance of its own Act. It's the Welsh Government who proposed this Act. Carl Sargeant really did shape it into something that's proved to be a really important initiative, but it's really crucial that the Welsh Government is doing enough work on its own to induct its officials to release the time of the well-being of future generations commissioner to deal with other public bodies. There are 45 other bodies involved, and we need to ensure that we're taking account of their needs, and often they are much smaller organisations, much less likely to have experts involved.

Sarah Murphy posed an interesting question, which is: should the well-being of future generations commissioner take on casework? She illustrated it with a local campaign in her constituency, also reminding us about the importance of consulting the workforce on how this looks to them. I think that's a really important point and it will come up again in relationship to the social partnership Bill.

Altaf Hussain focused on the very important global and more equal Wales and the really difficult decisions that parents are having to make, skipping meals to feed their child, and the fact that so many households are now threatened with fuel poverty. So, it's absolutely important that we are ensuring that the work of the well-being of future generations commissioner is focusing on that as much as anything else. But we also have to remind ourselves that producing very fat reports doesn't necessarily get us where we need to be, and 365 well-being objectives—thank you for reminding us of that—makes it a pretty impossible task. We really do need to hone those down into smaller numbers so that they can be more effective.

I absolutely agree with Ken Skates that Sophie Howe has been fiercely independent and has done a wonderful job in really setting the bar for any successor, and the importance of getting to grips with how we share excellence and get resources to the front line. I also think it's really important that we are ensuring that—. The economic action plan that was proposed by Ken Skates, obviously, is likely to be embedded into legislation through the social partnership and procurement Bill. It will bring private bodies who want to contract with public bodies into the Act, and, therefore, we really do have to get this right and make it into something that's coherent and manageable, digestible.

Sophie Howe once again gave some excellent examples of the way in which her office has implemented the Act, the anti-racist action plan, the pilot of the minimum income guarantee, and I'm fully confident that the Minister really does lead that cross-Government commitment. I was also very pleased to see the Minister for finance listening intently to this debate, because, obviously, this is entirely relevant to the very difficult decisions that Rebecca has to make in devising the next budget.

So, I absolutely agree with the Minister that scoping and evaluating the implementation of the Act is a very important milestone to ensure we're getting this right. So, we have a difficult task ahead of us, but we really do need to be coherent and inclusive, and, as the Minister for Climate Change rightly reminds us, we cannot be outsourcing our global carbon emissions. We have global responsibility, so simply saying, 'We're going to do x so that we have less emissions in Wales'—. We have to ensure that we are living our lives differently so that we are globally responsible and sharing the burden—

You need to conclude now, please.

—of the challenges that we all face. Thank you.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? I see no objections. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.