Group 2: Duty to promote public awareness (Amendment 7)

– in the Senedd at 6:33 pm on 5 July 2022.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:33, 5 July 2022

(Translated)

Group 2 is the next group. This relates to a duty to promote public awareness. The lead and only amendment in this group is amendment 7. I call on Peter Fox to move and speak to the amendment. Peter Fox.

(Translated)

Amendment 7 (Peter Fox) moved.

Photo of Peter Fox Peter Fox Conservative 6:33, 5 July 2022

Diolch, Llywydd. I welcome the opportunity to discuss amendment 7, tabled in my name. The purpose of this amendment is to require the Welsh Ministers to take steps to promote awareness of changes to taxation law made by regulations under section 1 of the Bill. Under the powers within the Bill, the Welsh Ministers will be given powers to make potentially significant changes to taxation legislation, such as on tax avoidance. However, as Dr Sara Closs-Davies noted in evidence to the Finance Committee, some taxpayers are unaware of devolved tax powers in Wales and the Welsh Revenue Authority and the type of help and support available from the WRA. Thus, to reduce complexity and increase certainty, both fundamental to an effective tax system, it is important that the public are made sufficiently aware of all changes in good time. Whilst the Bill requires Welsh Ministers to notify the Senedd about changes to the Welsh tax Acts, it is not a given that the public at large will be aware of such a notice. An additional duty to promote awareness will help to ensure that they do not inadvertently break the law, especially given the already complex nature of taxation legislation. I hope the Senedd will be able to support this amendment today. Thank you.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:35, 5 July 2022

(Translated)

The Minister to contribute. Rebecca Evans. 

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour

Diolch. Amendment 7, tabled in the name of Peter Fox, as we've heard, sets out that the Welsh Ministers must take appropriate steps to promote public awareness of the changes to the law made by regulations introduced under section 1. The amendment includes a requirement for Welsh Ministers to take steps to make the public aware if regulations made via the made affirmative procedure cease to have effect. Made affirmative regulations will cease to have effect either by not being voted on before 60 days have passed from being made or by not gaining Senedd approval.

Whilst I appreciate the rationale behind this proposed amendment, I consider it is unnecessary. Any new regulations made under the regulation-making power in this Bill would be publicised via the usual channels for legislation on the Senedd's website, along with the publication of an explanatory memorandum. The regulations will be published on the legislation.gov.uk website, and the amendments to the Welsh tax Acts quickly reflected in the Acts. Furthermore, the Welsh Treasury and the Welsh Revenue Authority would also, as a matter of course, use their existing communication, engagement and media channels to widen the public awareness of the changes. 

To provide an example, for land transaction tax, taxpayers are nearly always represented by solicitors, conveyancers or other tax advisers, and promoting awareness amongst these advisers is often the most effective approach of disseminating information.

I also consider that the scope of the amendment is very wide, and its meaning is also open to interpretation. There's no explanation of what steps would be considered appropriate to satisfy the requirement to publicise, and who would determine whether that requirement had been satisfied. 

I recognise the intention behind the amendment Peter Fox has laid. However, the fact that robust measures to raise public awareness are already in place, and will continue to be in place, and the amendment's lack of clarity, do make the amendment unnecessary, and for these reasons I am unable to support this amendment. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:37, 5 July 2022

(Translated)

Peter Fox to respond.

Photo of Peter Fox Peter Fox Conservative

I have very little to say, Llywydd. I'm disappointed that that can't be added, but I've heard what the Minister has said. I'm happy to move that.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Therefore, the question is that amendment 7 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection. Therefore, we will proceed to a vote on amendment 7. Open the vote. Amendment 7 in the name of Peter Fox. Close the vote. In favour 24, no abstentions, 25 against. Therefore, amendment 7 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 7: For: 24, Against: 25, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 3773 Amendment 7

Aye: 24 MSs

No: 25 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

Absent: 11 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name