We'll move on now to item 9, debate on the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee report, 'Refreshing Wales’ Bovine TB Eradication Programme'. I call on the committee Chair to move the motion. Paul Davies.

Motion NDM8066 Paul Davies

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee: 'Refreshing Wales’ Bovine TB Eradication Programme' which was laid in the Table Office on 20 May 2022.

Motion moved.

I move the motion tabled in my name. As the Welsh Government reviews its bovine TB strategy, the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee felt this presented a good opportunity to undertake a short, sharp inquiry into the programme. From the outset, I'd like to thank those who gave evidence to the committee and helped shape our report.

One of those giving evidence was Roger Lewis, a dairy farmer in Pembrokeshire, who explained that he had 47 cows in isolation as a result of a TB breakdown. Roger told us he was having to pour away £300-worth of milk, and feed the cows £100-worth of concentrate every day. However, the financial burden of a breakdown is only part of the pain for farmers, as Roger also told the committee about the emotional distress he felt seeing his cows penned up day in, day out. Llywydd dros dro, I wanted to open this debate by highlighting Roger's experience because I believe that it's important that Members hear the views of farmers like him, so that we can better understand the impact TB breakdowns have on farms across Wales.

Now, the committee's report focuses on five key areas the Government must address if they are to create a refreshed strategy that will eradicate TB and support farmers though the process. Those areas are engagement with farmers and the wider industry; informed purchasing; testing; compensation; and wildlife.

We heard that the countries that have been most successful with TB eradication programmes have very good engagement with farmers. Professor Glyn Hewinson told Members that the systems in Ireland and New Zealand, where there is evidence of good farmer engagement, has led to good results. So, on the basis of that good work, the committee has recommended that the Welsh Government follow a co-production route when developing its bovine TB policy, so that there is a genuine buy-in from the farming industry. I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted the committee's recommendations on engagement and the principle of co-production, and I know from the Minister's statement earlier this week that she is considering the farmer engagement task and finish group report's findings and recommendations, and the NFU Cymru TB focus group report.

The committee also looked at informed purchasing, and as Members will know, there is currently a voluntary approach to informed purchasing in Wales, where farmers are encouraged to make their herds' testing history available at the point of sale to allow assessment of TB risk level. The committee considered whether mandatory informed purchasing would be a way forward, although the evidence we received painted a very mixed picture. Some witnesses argued for mandatory informed purchasing, saying that this would help farmers do the right thing, but the committee also heard that it could create a two-tier system, where animals that are deemed as higher risk will have a lower value.

However, one thing was very clear: informed purchasing, whether voluntary or mandatory, must be based on robust data. We know that the Welsh Government is developing a new multispecies database, EID Cymru, and this presents an opportunity to improve the information provided as part of informed purchasing. Nevertheless, whilst stakeholders were supportive of the development of EID Cymru, they raised valid concerns about the compatibility between the different UK administrations. So, whilst I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted in principle the recommendations around informed purchasing, it did not address the issue of compatibility with other data systems in the UK, so I hope the Minister will address this issue in her response to this debate.

As part of the inquiry, the committee explored the idea of increasing TB testing, by reintroducing pre-movement testing in low-risk areas and also increasing the sensitivity of the tests that are used. Whilst there was broad support for increasing pre-movement testing, farming unions raised concerns that more sensitive tests would produce more false positives, which would in turn have a negative socioeconomic impact on the farming industry. The committee has recommended that a detailed socioeconomic impact assessment of any changes to the TB testing regime should be undertaken, and it's good to see that that recommendation has been accepted.

Llywydd dros dro, the committee heard how compensation for TB is a recurring area of overspend for the Welsh Government, which is simply unsustainable. One of the proposed solutions to this is a move away from the current individual cow-by-cow valuation to a tabular system for compensation, and members heard evidence in favour of the move from the RSPCA and against it from farming unions. The committee concluded that TB compensation must be used to reward good farming and that if a tabular compensation system is introduced, the Welsh Government must ensure that farmers rearing high-value cattle are not treated unfairly and do not lose out. Committee members understood that the current compensation programme is expensive. However, we also recognise that gaining farmer buy-in to any new system will be vital to its success.

Finally, whilst the committee tried to limit its work on wildlife in this inquiry, as that debate continues to be had, we did believe that there was a gap in data around bovine TB in wildlife. In the response to the report, the Welsh Government noted several studies and we as a committee will continue to monitor any scientific work done in this area.

So, Llywydd dros dro, this may be a short, sharp inquiry, but nonetheless its content and its report are vital, and so I look forward to hearing Members' views on this report and how we can help improve Wales's TB eradication policy ahead of the publication of the refreshed delivery plan later this year. Diolch yn fawr.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

I'm grateful for the opportunity to contribute. Bovine TB has been a dark cloud over Wales's agricultural industry for too long, costing some farmers their businesses, their livelihoods and severely impacting on their mental health. Frankly, I don't care who gets the plaudits for eradicating TB from Welsh herds, because it is such a vicious disease, causing immense hardship, I just want to get this sorted once and for all. So does the industry.

This committee report is being debated in the same week as the Welsh Government provided their TB update, and I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted all the recommendations fully or in principle. The recommendations put forward by the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee offer the opportunity to grab this problem by the scruff, bringing farmers back into the fold around TB decision making on their farms. There is also so much that we can learn from other countries, such as Ireland, New Zealand and England, on how they controlled and eradicated bovine TB.

Focusing on a couple of specific points, whilst there is some welcome positivity that the annual number of animals slaughtered for TB control has decreased from 11,655 to 10,117, we must remember, however, that over 100,000 cattle have been slaughtered since 2008—a considerable and upsettingly large number.

Recommendation 10 notes the shortage of vets and the possibility of introducing lay vaccinators to vaccinate cattle and lay testers to test cattle. This is a pragmatic recommendation, freeing up vets whilst still enabling TB testing to be conducted, and I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has agreed to it. However, I would like further information on when the Welsh Government would think that this could be enacted.

Additionally, recommendations 11 and 12 call on the Welsh Government to

'use TB compensation payments to reward good farming practices'. and states,

'If the Welsh Government chooses to introduce a tabular compensation system, they must ensure that farmers rearing high value (e.g. pedigree) cattle are not treated unfairly and do not lose out.'

Whilst the Government accepting these principles is somewhat welcome, I do feel that the response is somewhat of a holding reply, explaining that the payments regime is subject to consideration, with the additional comment that resulting costs will be drawn from existing programme budgets. So, it does concern me that with no new money being provided to tackle this disease, the Government has left itself open to the accusation that it is merely tinkering around the edges.

Farming is in desperate need of a friend, especially on TB. I sincerely hope that after the bruising last decade or so for farmers in the fight against TB, today, this report and the Welsh Government statement, signals a turning of the page and a re-energised TB eradication strategy. My thanks go to the committee Chair, the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire; the clerking team; the witnesses who provided their evidence; and to fellow colleagues on the committee. Diolch.

Well, it's impossible to overemphasise the importance of the farming industry to rural Wales. Farming businesses in Wales are the backbone of the rural economy, the axis that rural communities turn around. The core products produced here are central to the food and drink industry in Wales, which is worth millions of pounds and employs over 239,000 people here. But bovine TB continues to cast a dark shadow across the industry in Wales, and it's one of the main threats to the delivery of our vision of an agricultural industry that is profitable, productive and innovative. The anger and frustration in the industry regarding the failure of consecutive Governments time and time again to introduce a comprehensive strategy to eradicate TB in Wales is at its highest ever.

I want to echo the views of the farming unions on their opposition to a tabular valuation system as a means of providing compensation for TB. Such a proposal contains significant deficiencies. Because of a shortage of time, I want to focus on one weakness, namely that such a system isn't fair to farmers or to the Government, because a system based on averages is likely to create as many cases of overvaluation as undervaluation, and we can't accept tabular valuation without an assurance that farmers are to receive a fair compensation.

The veterinary sector is facing significant challenges at the moment as a result of Brexit, as many vets leave this country and go back to the countries of their birth. This in turn causes problems in terms of TB testing and the committee heard concerns that this is having a direct impact on farmers and TB testing. Members of the Farmers Union of Wales have been punished because of a lack of personnel and veterinary support. So, I encourage Government to ensure that additional resources are available before any increased testing requirements are introduced. One possible solution, as we’ve heard, in relation to this is the introduction of lay testers, and I would encourage the Welsh Government to look into this as soon as possible.

The current situation is being further intensified by the Welsh Government’s programme for government for 2021, which states that it would ban the culling of badgers to reduce the spread of  TB in cattle. This is a mistake. There is no vaccination for TB in cattle or wildlife, so the only effective tool we have is culling, and it has to be part of the mix for the benefit of cattle and wildlife. There is evidence to support an effective TB eradication policy over the border in Gloucestershire and Somerset, where we saw a reduction of 66 per cent and 37 per cent in the number of cases in the period of the culls there. No other way has been proposed to tackle TB, and therefore we must use the only tool that we have at the moment, and that is culling.

In reading the committee’s report, it is staggering to understand that there isn’t adequate data on the level of TB in wildlife, either. Such information should be elementary in developing policy to tackle the disease. It’s no surprise that the steps that have been taken to date haven’t succeeded, because it’s only one side of the evidence that’s considered. This problem in terms of data lets our farmers and our wildlife down, and we must improve this data, therefore. This problem must be dealt with. Everyone is agreed that the current situation cannot continue, and the Welsh Government must ensure that farmers are given adequate support to eradicate this appalling disease from cattle and wildlife.

I want to thank the committee for what is an interesting report. I remember being elected in 2007, and there were serious concerns around bovine TB in Wales then, but the data shows how far we have come. There’s a new picture now, as the Minister put it in her most recent statement. New herd incidents are down 56 per cent since 2008, and we’ve got here by the Government and also the farming industry working together and following the science. Higher sensitivity testing particularly has been crucial. There’s a long way to go, of course, but this report is another helpful signpost on the road to eradication. And we all want to get there, of course, as fast as possible.

As RSPCA Cymru noted in their evidence,

'the disease is primarily spread between cattle', with cattle movements the main risk in the transmission. So, the evidence on veterinary personnel and resources is especially important, and I look forward to an update on the lay testers pilot in due course.

As Dr Gareth Enticott from Cardiff University explained to the committee, the introduction of lay tests could particularly help to retain vets in the Mid and West Wales area. Staying in my region, the committee didn’t hear about the pilot project for Pembrokeshire, but the Minister mentioned it in her statement, and it would be good to have more details, please, perhaps after the first formal meeting at the Pembrokeshire show.

Likewise, the committee heard a bit about badger vaccination, but not cattle. In November, Wales’s chief veterinary officer said, and I quote,

'We continue to support the development of a deployable cattle TB vaccine with a test to differentiate infected from vaccinated animals to be in place by 2025.'

'Cattle vaccination has the potential to become a powerful tool in the battle against the disease and we will be engaging with the TB Centre of Excellence to plan its most appropriate deployment in Wales.'

So, again, I ask for an update on that. But I’m really pleased to have taken part in this debate, and I look forward to listening to others.

I call on the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, Lesley Griffiths.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank the Chair and committee members for reviewing the proposals contained in the consultation on a refreshed TB eradication programme. I have formally responded to the committee's report, which we are debating here today, and I was reassured to see that the recommendations are broadly in line with our proposals. 

I set out my intention to refresh our TB eradication programme last November. Our current delivery plan, which dates back to 2017, set out enhanced measures, which have since been implemented as part of a regionalised approach. Our programme continues to be based on the four key principles of infectious disease control: keep it out, find it fast, stop it spreading and stamp it out. The latest TB statistics show progress has been made across Wales, with long-term decreases in a number of key indicators, such as incidence and prevalence. We're also seeing regional long-term reductions in TB in our high TB areas, and our refreshed delivery plan will build on this good work. The 246 responses to the consultation on a refreshed TB eradication programme, which closed in February, are helping to inform our strategy, going forwards. The summary of responses is available on our website. 

In November, I commissioned an independent task and finish group to consider communication with cattle keepers regarding TB. Their recommendations have been published and are also being considered towards our future approach. I am pleased to see synergies between the task and finish group report, the NFU Cymru TB focus group report and the report presented by this committee. A recurring theme in these reports highlights the importance of the role of vets in the TB eradication programme, and in particular their relationships with farmers in communicating accurate and trusted information.

As a continuation of the work of the task and finish group and in response to their recommendations, I look forward to seeing the outputs of a workshop at the Royal Welsh Show next week to explore the role of the vet and the interface between Welsh Government, vets and farmers in tackling TB. The outputs will be considered alongside veterinary capacity and progressing a pilot with veterinary delivery partners and the Animal and Plant Health Agency to trial the use of lay TB testers in Wales. 

Earlier this week, I published a written statement setting out immediate and longer term intentions for our programme. We have a great deal of work to do and I and my officials will continue to work with stakeholders to further develop and refine our approach. The initial focus will be on progressing a pilot aimed at driving down TB incidence in Pembrokeshire and setting up a technical advisory group. As a priority, the group will consider our TB testing regime and provide independent recommendations, ensuring the latest information continues to be at the heart of the programme. Later this year, I will publish a refreshed delivery plan, setting out the next steps for the programme. I will continue to work with stakeholders. I've always emphasised that the eradication of bovine TB will only be achieved by working in partnership. 

I would like to thank once again all those who responded to our consultation and contributed to the various reports and recommendations, and I look forward to providing a further update in the Senedd in due course. Diolch. 

I call on Paul Davies to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to thank Members and, indeed, the Minister for their contributions to this debate. We've heard just how devastating bovine TB is for Welsh farmers. I want to make it clear to the sector that the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee has heard you loud and clear, and we will continue to do what we can to scrutinise Ministers to bring forward improvements on this issue. 

It is absolutely right, though, that Wales's TB eradication programme is robust and effective, and for that we have to see greater engagement with the sector over this policy area. The committee has made it clear that farmers must have a greater buy-in to Government policies and they must be treated as equal partners by Welsh Government when developing the TB eradication programme. Professor Glyn Hewinson is right to say that this needs to be a team Wales effort, and involving farmers, vets and Government together in decision making is really important. 

Of course, it's also important that the data that the Welsh Government uses is accurate and up to date. The committee has called on the Welsh Government to work with farmers to gather better localised data on infections in wildlife, including gathering data on the levels of infection on farmland where a farm has gone into breakdown. Data and its importance formed an integral part of the committee report, whether that's in relation to wildlife figures or whether that's in relation to informed purchasing or changing the testing regime, and so I urge the Minister to prioritise this matter and review the data it holds as soon as possible.

Members have also raised compensation, and it's clear that the current compensation programme is expensive and that something will have to change. The Minister has said that the aim of any TB payments regime must be to pay a fair and appropriate amount for cattle slaughtered whilst also ensuring it's fair for the taxpayer. Whilst that is true, it also has to be fair to the farmer too, and so I know the committee will continue to keep a close watch on developments in this area.

The shortage of vets has also been raised this afternoon, and I'm pleased the Minister has accepted the recommendation and confirmed that you will now explore the greater use of lay TB testers. I understand that a pilot will be established over the summer to trial this approach, and look forward to hearing more about it in due course, as the Minister mentioned earlier. 

So, in closing, the Minister has made it clear that she will publish a refreshed delivery plan later this year, setting out the next steps for the TB eradication programme, and the committee looks forward to scrutinising that plan in due course. So, can I thank Members and the Minister for their contributions today, and say that the committee looks forward to being updated on the progress of the implementation of the recommendations in our report in due course? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.