2. What is the Government doing to improve public transport in South Wales East? OQ58587

Thank you. 'Llwybr Newydd', the Wales transport strategy, sets out our plans for an accessible, sustainable and efficient transport system not just in South Wales East, but across the nation.

Thank you for that response.

A frequent complaint during street surgeries is the state of the bus network. This service is a lifeline for so many people and is particularly the case in Blaenau Gwent, where car ownership is low and there is a higher proportion of older people than in many other constituencies. Unfortunately, if you wanted to travel by bus between Aberbeeg and Cwm—a 10-minute journey by car—it would take one hour and 44 minutes, as it goes the long way around. Can you give an indication of the roll-out of a new bus timetable and the budget it will have? Can you also consult with bus travellers in the communities where routes are operating so that the service is designed with them in mind?

Well, I'm passionate about the role the bus plays in the sustainable transport system. It's been a neglected part of the debate for far too long. We are dealing with the legacy of privatisation, which makes taking a strategic approach very difficult, because private companies can essentially run the services they wish, and we know, after the years of austerity, councils don't have the funds to provide services for social need. So, it needs a wholesale reform. We're consulting on our bus White Paper. We've had a lot of positive responses and we'll be publishing a summary of them shortly, and then we're planning to bring legislation to the Senedd next year, to set out a franchising system. And the purpose of that is to allow us to set out, with Transport for Wales and local authorities, what a network of routes looks like, to enable bus to be a viable option for most people. We know that about half of people never get on the bus, and, if we're going to hit our climate change targets, that has to change. So, we need them to be reliable, we need them to be frequent, we need them to be affordable. To do that requires a lot of plumbing to the system, and we are setting out on that journey. Unfortunately, it is not a quick journey, but we are, I think, heading in the right direction.

Deputy Minister, in June last year I asked the First Minister about the possibility of him introducing an all-Wales travel card, to allow people from all socioeconomic backgrounds and age groups to access public transport. The introduction of such a card would ensure more seamless travel for residents, commuters and students, as well as encouraging tourism, thereby driving improvements in public transport, by increasing passenger numbers and demand. In response, the First Minister said there was a great deal worth exploring in the idea, and he gave a commitment to exploring the possibility of a card, to improve transport connectivity all across Wales. However, Deputy Minister, when I tabled a written question asking for an update on plans, you replied on 11 October 2022, referring to various existing concessionary fare schemes and said you were exploring options for integrated ticketing with Transport for Wales. It sounds to me, Deputy Minister, that you are pouring cold water on the idea of an all-Wales travel card. So, please could you confirm what is your position on this, and do you in fact agree with the First Minister that this is a proposal worth exploring?

Well, it's very much part of our thinking, but, as I've just explained, because we have a fragmented and privatised system, it is not as simple as it sounds, because different operators have different systems, we have no ability to compel them, because they are commercial companies. And the whole point of going to a franchise system across Wales, with standards for workers and for passengers, is to allow a greater commonality of services. And that includes an interchangeable bus, train and active travel ticket, which Transport for Wales are working on. But until we get that plumbing right, we're not able to do it. And I'm afraid this is a legacy of privatisation that we are living with today, and one we are working hard to overcome.

I know we want to look forward not back, but it's worth noting that the reason we've got still a bus service at all is because of the bus emergency scheme, and its successor scheme, that was initiated during the coronavirus crisis. And that was Welsh Government stepping in to help a private service. Now, I think that this private service owes us something back, and I don't think we're getting that. What are we seeing in the Aber valley, for example? I've had many constituents complain to me about cancellation of services. And what we really need to see is some kind of public control over this. Now, I've noticed that the White Paper on bus governance reform that was out for consultation actually goes further than the bus Bill proposals, so it would be interesting to hear the responses to the consultation. Can you give us an indication when you will publish those? I know you've said that you're doing it imminently, but can you give us a clear idea of when you will publish those bus consultation responses, and when will we hear more about the progress of the White Paper?

Thank you. The intention is do that this month. There's an awful lot going on around the bus reform agenda. We're looking at the issue of fares, we're looking at the issue of programming—as I say, not just putting in place the legislative framework for allowing franchising, but working with TfW and local authorities on where those routes should go. So, TfW have done some detailed work in north Wales as a first step for that mapping of where an idealised bus route should exist, which then allows us to build that into the franchise, when we pass it and when we let it.

You're right that we have put a significant amount of money into the bus industry—it's something like £150 million of emergency funding. As you say, without that, there would be no bus industry in most of Wales. This June, we announced a further £48 million package of support, and it does come with conditions—it is a something-for-something deal. And it's been actually a very productive working relationship we've had with the industry, which I think prepares us for franchising. Because, for the first time, I think we've had the barriers come down, where the conversation used to be, sometimes, adversarial, with them asserting their rights as commercial operators. It's now far more of a partnership, and we have access to the real-time data of the routes they're running and the fare box that they're generating, and that allows us then to design a new system far better.

To be fair to the bus industry, they are facing significant pressures, from a workforce that has been shrinking, with older bus drivers not returning after the pandemic, the difficulty of recruiting, as well as rising costs because of inflation. So, there are a number of pressures on the industry. That's why we think putting them on a firmer footing, under an organised and transparent franchising system, is the way to make modal shift a reality.