5. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of how many swimming pools may have to close this winter as a result of rising energy prices and the cost-of-living crisis? OQ58557

Public swimming pools are an important health and leisure resource, and, equally, an important part of our nation’s well-being. We know that many face unprecedented challenges. We don't have an exact assessment of the number that may have to close. We will continue to monitor the situation closely and, where necessary, if we need to, to work with the UK Government to do everything possible to ensure that they remain open in the face of significant rises in energy and running costs.

Thank you, Minister. That's really reassuring to hear. I know that you're familiar with the story of Plas Madoc Leisure Centre in my constituency and the incredible work done by volunteers to keep it open through thick and thin. But they're really facing the wall this winter, partly as a result of Brexit, with chemical costs rising through the roof and delivery challenges, but also because of rising energy prices and they estimate that their energy bill could more than double. Minister, what exactly do you think could be done by Welsh Government and by UK Government to support those vital public swimming pools that do so much good for public health?

You're right, we have some really big challenges. I know that the Member in his private time, as a dad, enjoys swimming, and I too have taken advantage of the opportunity to go and spend time with my own son, but I recognise that that activity is really challenged because of the energy cost, and one of the things that isn't often talked about is the costs of chemical imports as a real issue in this and other sectors as well.

We actually gave local government a generous settlement at the start of last year, with an announcement of a 9.4 per cent increase in their budgets, and yet we've seen that overtaken by inflation. So, local authorities aren't full of lots of money to help these enterprises continue and succeed, and we know the damage that is done if they close, and I in particular pay tribute to all the people around Plas Madoc who have kept that running.

We're looking forward to not just understanding what's happening in the UK Government scheme for non-domestic energy users, but understanding how intensive energy users are to be treated as well, because, actually, I think swimming pools have a good case to be treated as an energy-intensive enterprise. So, we'll continue to make the case at UK level as well as trying to work constructively with our partners in local government, because I certainly want to see swimming pools continue for use for people of all ages.

It's an important point that Ken Skates makes, and, indeed, privately run swimming pools, and certainly local authority-run swimming pools and leisure facilities are in a really difficult situation. They're so fundamental, aren't they, to the well-being of our communities. So, for these facilities to become more sustainable, then, we need to look to help them utilise alternative and green sources of energy to help reduce their costs as well as helping them to meet our climate change commitments. Minister, I just wondered how you are working with your colleagues to consider that wider support that the Government can offer the private sector leisure facilities to move towards cheaper, greener forms of energy. And, as the Minister for Economy, what consideration have you given to helping businesses to access initiatives such as the local district heating networks?

Actually, it goes back to some of the points I was making in response to earlier questions about what we're considering in terms of increasing our support for businesses to both decarbonise and also to de-risk their own energy supply with energy generation—that includes district heating schemes as well—and look at where we have different economic enterprises and how the heat that is potentially generated can be used to beneficial effect. So, it's a point that I think the Member will understand well from his previous time as a local authority leader, looking at the opportunities for district heating and power schemes, and looking to see how many of those we can introduce and where they are. But there is a much broader challenge about inflationary costs. Part of our challenge also is that in the way that our energy market is currently structured, we allowed gas to drive prices in a way that is disconnected from reality. So, we've got some really big challenges to try to work through. We need to understand in the next two weeks the financial levers we have available to us, and we need to understand what the scheme is going to be for non-domestic energy users. They all play into each other, but we'll certainly look to be as constructive as possible, and I'll be making a further statement in the coming weeks about some of that support.