3. What assessment has the First Minister made of the impact of the Welsh Government's degree apprenticeships programme on admission numbers for degree apprenticeships? OQ58629

Llywydd, since the degree apprenticeship programme began in Wales in 2018, we have achieved more than a fivefold increase in enrolments. In the current academic year, 780 apprenticeships are working to achieve degree-level qualifications in digital, energy and advanced manufacturing.

Thank you, First Minister. It's interesting, what you said, and I just want to note that the Welsh Conservatives fully support degree apprenticeships, and, in fact, we go further than the current policy. But, First Minister, a few weeks ago, I stood here and raised some concerning statistics highlighting that white working-class males are the least likely to attend university across the UK, but the picture is worse in Wales. You implied the problem wasn't as bad as I said, trying to excuse the figures. You said, and I quote:

'Our degree apprenticeship programme will not be counted in the figures that the Member has suggested this afternoon', as if that would somehow make the situation look better. For the academic year 2019-20, there were 380 new and continuing apprentices in the degree apprenticeship programme. In the very same cohort, 83,800 Welsh students went to university—453 per cent more than the amount taking degree apprenticeships; 380 is just 0.45 per cent of 83,800. First Minister, it's quite clear from the statistics that degree apprenticeships, even if included in the figures, and your new figures that you outlined just now, would make very little difference to those overall numbers that I outlined. So, First Minister, the problem still remains: we are seeing low numbers of university admissions for white working-class males. How exactly are you trying to rectify the situation, and, again, what practical solutions are you going to put in place to ensure that that trend doesn't continue?

Well, Llywydd, I've enjoyed Laura Anne Jones's latest contribution to her leadership campaign, but I have to say this to her: that she will need to slow down on the numbers to allow people to follow the points that she is making. I look forward to reading the transcript so I'm better able to follow the argument that she was making.

The apprenticeship programme—degree apprenticeship programme—Llywydd, is designed to focus on, as I said in my answer, those areas where we have particular needs in the Welsh economy—digital, energy and advanced manufacturing being amongst them—areas where, historically, women have been under-represented but white young men are very much in the majority and, despite our efforts to attract young women into those areas through the degree apprenticeship programme, that remains the case.

What is more important in terms of the question put to me, though, Llywydd, is whether we are attracting through the degree apprenticeship route young people who otherwise wouldn't be in higher education. I am encouraged that over 57 per cent of those young people who come to take up degree apprenticeships in Wales come from families where there is no parent who has ever been to higher education. In other words, we are recruiting through that route people who would not be as likely to have higher education experience by the conventional routes. And in that sense, I'm glad that the Member has welcomed the degree apprenticeship programme, because I think—I don't think I followed her completely here, but I think, when I study her figures, I will find that, actually, it is doing what she wants it to do; it is reaching into those parts of the community that more conventional routes into higher education fail to achieve the penetration that we would like to see.

This Friday, I'll be visiting DRB Group in my own constituency of Alyn and Deeside, and I'm proud to have completed my apprenticeship in advanced manufacturing at DRB, with the help of the Welsh Labour Government. I'm also extremely grateful to the company for funding my part-time degree whilst I was there. Before I visit and return to my former workplace, I will be speaking at a skills-shortage conference, organised by Deeside Business Forum. What message can I send from you, as First Minister of Wales, to the conference, to companies like DRB Group in Alyn and Deeside, about the Welsh Government's commitment to equipping the next workforce with the skills to develop the next generation of green industrial products in north-east Wales?

I thank Jack Sargeant for that and congratulate him, of course, on the way that he himself came through that apprenticeship system and did so so successfully. What you can quite certainly say to the business forum is that, in Wales, they have a Government that fully understands the responsibility that we have to invest in the skills that will allow businesses in that part of Wales to continue to thrive. Unemployment, Llywydd, in Wales is at its very lowest in the north-east of Wales. I met companies in the Deeside area when I was in north Wales only a couple of weeks ago. They know it's a competitive market to attract, particularly, young people to take up the job opportunities that are there for them, and they were very appreciative of the work that the Welsh Government does and particularly those on-the-ground providers—Coleg Cambria and others—the things that they do to align the programmes that they provide with the needs of that great green industrial future that we want to create here in Wales. And I'd be really grateful to Jack Sargeant if, on our behalf, on behalf of the Welsh Government, he can reinforce, with that business forum, our determination to go on working alongside them and the education system to make sure that we turn out young people who have the skills that they will need to create successful futures for themselves, and to contribute to those great employers that we have in the north-east of Wales.