Local Authorities

1. Questions to the Minister for Finance and Local Government – in the Senedd on 26 October 2022.

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Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

1. What additional financial resources is the Welsh Government providing to local authorities to help them deal with the cost-of-living crisis? OQ58608

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 1:30, 26 October 2022

At the spending review, we maximised the use of all of our available funding. I prioritised funding for local government in the Welsh budget so that every authority in Wales received an increase in funding of more than 8.4 per cent.

Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you for that response.

Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru

People are petrified at the prospect of being unable to afford the basics this winter and they have little faith in a super-rich Prime Minister doing anything for them. In the absence of adequate help from Westminster, reserves that local authorities hold for rainy days need to be deployed. Unfortunately, you have local authorities like the Labour-run Caerphilly County Borough Council holding an astronomical reserve of £180 million. This stack of cash, which is bigger than the reserves held by the largest local authority in Wales, increased by £16 million in the last financial year alone. This is why my Plaid Cymru colleague Councillor Greg Ead has called for the Caerphilly county council cost-of-living hardship fund to be increased from £3 million to £10 million. Should the Government mandate a limit on how big cash reserves can get to prevent Scrooge-like local authorities sitting on huge pots of cash?

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 1:31, 26 October 2022

I'm not sure that's a fair characterisation of local authorities and the way that they look towards their reserves. But, to be perfectly frank, I am glad that local authorities generally are in a much better position than they otherwise would have been, and that's partly thanks to the additional £50 million that we provided to local government at the end of the last financial year. And that was to help them manage their budget in response to the emerging inflationary and service pressures, which they were identifying and experiencing at that point.

But, I think that we do need to think about reserves in relation to the overall budget of local government. And certainly, at an all-Wales level, the widest interpretation of usable reserves—and I think that that is an important point—is 26 per cent of the total annual expenditure. So, that's just three months provision for all of the costs of local government. So, I'm pleased that local authorities are in a better place than they otherwise would have been thanks to the additional funding we were able to provide. But, at the same time, I do have to say that usable reserves are different to the general reserves position because, of course, local authorities will have earmarked funding for various things, not least our investment in the sustainable communities for learning programme and the new schools and so on.

Photo of Tom Giffard Tom Giffard Conservative 1:32, 26 October 2022

I thank Peredur Owen Griffiths for tabling this question. I just wanted to follow up as well on the point about reserves, because I think it is important, and you're right—people don't necessarily understand the definition of usable reserves, particularly those councils that call them usable reserves and then never use them. So, in my region of South Wales West, Bridgend, Neath Port Talbot and Swansea councils, in 2019-20, had a combined £288 million in reserves. In 2021, that went to £400 million. Can you explain why those three councils, two of them run by your party, have added £110 million to their usable reserves in a year and do you back it?

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 1:33, 26 October 2022

Absolutely I can explain that, Llywydd, and it's called 'the pandemic', and that is one of the reasons why local government was provided with significant additional funding through the pandemic. And I have no doubt that local authorities, given the huge gap in funding that they've identified not only for this year, but into future years as well, will be looking at those reserves. But, let's remember, you can only spend those reserves once, so when I'm hearing calls, for example, for increases in pay and other pressures, you can only use those reserves once, and I know that local authorities will be looking to use those reserves very carefully. But, I make no apology whatsoever for providing significant additional funding to local authorities through the pandemic, and, frankly, I'm glad that they're in a better position than they otherwise would have been had we decided not to.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 1:34, 26 October 2022

Tom Giffard and I were at a briefing only in the last two weeks with Welsh local government leaders from our area, but also at a national level in Wales, having quite a frank assessment about the perilous state of local authority finances. And, of course, we also know this spreads right across the voluntary and third sector as well, at the time when the need for those public services and the reach of the third sector into communities has never been so acute. So, could I ask you, away from froth over reserves, which, frankly, if they are available and there's a bit in there, are going to be used pretty damn rapidly now—pardon my French, Presiding Officer—how can we actually target resources from Welsh Government to ensure that, right across the sectors, local authorities and local, regional and also third sector organisations are really tackling the cost-of-living crisis and collaborating together to do so, because we know we're going to have to stretch this money, reserves or not, a hell of a lot further than we've ever done before?

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 1:35, 26 October 2022

I absolutely agree that the approach has to be one of social partnership in terms of addressing the cost-of-living crisis. And this is one of the reasons why the First Minister has set up a cost-of-living Cabinet sub-committee, which I and other Ministers attend, but also we invite to those meetings representatives of the third sector, local government and other social partners to ensure that we're all pulling in the same direction and maximising our resources in ways that are complementary to one another. So, I just want to reassure colleagues that that is absolutely the approach that we're taking.

And I think that we can also look to some of the work that I've been doing in recent times in terms of our approach to grants policy. It used to be the case that we would have one-year grants, and that would be very difficult for the third sector in particular, but also others, including in local government, to be able to have that longer term and more strategic look at how they spend their money. So, now we have allowed grants to be up to five years—if they can roll over, they have to meet benchmarking and other due diligence tests as well. But I think that that has helped to give that longer term look, which also then provides better value for money.

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat 1:36, 26 October 2022

(Translated)

May I too thank Peredur for raising this issue?

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat

Good afternoon, Minister. Since the pandemic, many of our care workers have been struggling to make ends meet, and I'm sure many of us have heard about the situation that both those receiving care and those giving care are in. In July, the new administration of Powys County Council—a group of political parties: Liberal Democrat, Labour and Green; and we all need to work together on this as this shouldn't be about party politics in our local government finance, because we all know the people who receive those services—raised the travel expenses to 45p a mile, in line with their local authority employees. That package cost around £150,000 to implement, Minister. What consideration have you, the Government, given to support local authorities to continue with that funding for care workers, to ensure that they deliver that vital social care to vulnerable people? Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 1:37, 26 October 2022

So, in the first instance, we're seeking to impress upon the UK Government the importance within HMRC of raising that per-mile payment in respect of travel related to work. So, that's our first way in which we're trying to address this, and I know that my colleague Vaughan Gething's officials have been active in their discussions with HMRC on this. My officials have also raised it with Treasury, and it's my intention also to raise this issue with the new Chief Secretary to the Treasury in due course as well.