Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:40 pm on 8 November 2022.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:40, 8 November 2022

(Translated)

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies. 

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Could I begin by wishing the First Minister well in his convalescence over COVID? Hopefully, he'll be back with us as soon as possible.

Leader of the house, Keir Starmer is on record as saying he will not go the world cup in Qatar, and nor will members of his party go to the world cup. I think that's the quote that he's put on the record. You are the only Labour Government in any part of the United Kingdom, and rightly, going to celebrate Wales's success in being on that international stage. Why are you right and he's wrong? 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

Well, I don't think it's a matter of right and wrong. We are in government, as you point out, and I think it is different from a government politician's point of view than it is for somebody in opposition. The UK Labour Party has not called for formal government boycotts, for instance, and, I think, he and we recognise the very different positions of politicians, as I've just explained. I think UK Labour—and I don't know if the leader of the opposition has picked this up—have made it very clear that they absolutely believe it is right and proper that the Welsh Government do promote Wales on a global stage. It's the first time Wales's men's team has been at a world cup final for 64 years, and they certainly believe that they should attend as official representatives. 

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:41, 8 November 2022

I agree with you that the Welsh Government should be there. I agree that Ministers should be there. But it is a fact that the leader of Welsh Labour, in opposition, is playing to the gallery, in your words, because you've highlighted how he is in opposition and you are in government. One thing that I disagree with the Welsh Government on is—[Interruption.] Well, they're rumbling on the backbenches, but it is a fact—

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:40, 8 November 2022

I think you got it the wrong way round. You got it the wrong way round.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:41, 8 November 2022

—but it is a fact. It is a fact, it is a fact, it is a fact. But one thing I disagree with is the withdrawal of the Deputy Minister, not going to the Iran v Wales world cup. I think that would be a positive sign—sending a woman to play against a country that ultimately is oppressing women's rights—and what we should be doing is having a Deputy Minister representing the Welsh Government at that match. Can we see if that decision can be rescinded, and ultimately send a positive message that here in Wales women and men are equal and rights are respected, and that should be the world over? 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:42, 8 November 2022

So, as a Government, we regularly review how best we can promote Wales on the global stage, and our decision is that it is proportionate for the First Minister and another Minister to attend two of the group games. If we progress, and we certainly all hope that Wales does progress through the group games and on to the next stage, we'll consider appropriate ministerial attendance at those games. 

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

But it is a fact that you have withdrawn the Deputy Minister, who was down to go to that match. As I say, I regret that decision, because I think it would have sent a positive signal about the rights here in Wales and what we want to see replicated around the rest of the globe. We support Welsh Government's participation in promoting Wales on the world cup stage. One thing we do want to understand, though, is how the Welsh Government will highlight our objection to some of the poor practices in employment rights in Qatar, and, in particular, those of the LGBTQ+ community who are oppressed in Qatar. How will the Welsh Government be promoting the rights of people and making sure that those objections are heard loud and clear in the decision makers' corridors of power in Qatar? 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:43, 8 November 2022

The leader of the opposition will be aware that the Football Association of Wales—and that's the entirety, the players and the management—have already committed to the One Love armband campaign, for instance, to express solidarity with LGBTQ+ communities across the globe, and we've made it very clear that we support that position. I was very heartened to hear a member of the FAW on the news, last week, being very forceful that the captain would be wearing such an armband, and when asked, if FIFA told them they couldn't, what would they do, he said, 'We will wear it'. And I think we would absolutely continue to support that. I know the First Minister will be meeting with the Rainbow Wall fans group ahead of the tournament. He's also met already with the International Trade Union Confederation, together with the FAW. I haven't seen the programmes of either the First Minister or the Minister for Economy when they are out in Qatar, but I know that they will be taking every opportunity to ensure that our values are absolutely front and centre, and that they will certainly have those discussions when they're there. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:44, 8 November 2022

(Translated)

The Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price. 

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

Diolch, Llywydd. Last month, the United Nations Environment Programme published its emissions gap report for 2022. It contained a stark message for humanity, as we've already heard, with the international community falling far short of the decarbonisation objectives outlined in the Paris agreement. There is currently no credible pathway to reducing global heating below 1.5 degrees.

The current UK Government cannot be trusted to show any credible leadership in the fight against climate change. It's vital, therefore, that Wales demonstrates robust and decisive leadership on this matter. On this basis, could the Minister please explain why, as recently reported by the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee, there has been a slow-down in renewable energy development in Wales since 2015? And when is the Government going to bring forward its proposed new renewable energy targets, as it has promised to do this year?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:45, 8 November 2022

Thank you. I think that you are right; it is really important that every country shows leadership, and I certainly think the UK leadership, being the member state, should do so. I'm very pleased that the Prime Minister changed his mind and is attending COP27, because I certainly think the UK Government do need to step up to the plate. As a country, here in Wales, we absolutely show leadership. I've attended COPs myself, when I was the Minister with responsibility for the environment. Certainly other states and regions looked to us to see what we had done in our fight against the climate emergency.

You mentioned renewable energy, and we have certainly increased significantly the amount of renewable energy that we produce here in Wales. I don't have the figure to hand, but certainly we had seen an increase, I thought, year on year, over the past few years. Obviously, the Minister for Climate Change recently announced the renewable energy development and she will be bringing forward the strategy as soon as possible, and is making a statement this afternoon.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 1:47, 8 November 2022

We look forward to that statement. One of the key questions is how we can emulate the success that we've seen in Scotland. We have the potential there, but we have not, to date at least, been able to realise it.

One of the key themes emerging from COP27 is that rich nations in particular are failing to uphold their responsibilities to support decarbonisation efforts in developing countries and dealing with the effects of climate change. Does the Welsh Government support the principle of loss and damage compensation by rich countries to poor ones? Although we are a small nation, Wales does have both a disproportionate contribution in our history, but also a disproportionate climate footprint in relation to the rest of the world.

Could the Minister explain whether the Welsh Government will consider establishing a Wales food commission, as recommended by the WWF? It's one of the key issues. Agriculture in now on the table. There's been a big battle for that. But, in terms of Wales, can we get a Wales food commission as a means of overseeing a more ecologically conscious food system strategy? Your Government has called for a team Wales approach to climate change. All the opposition parties support the idea of a Wales food commission. Will you work with us to achieve it?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:48, 8 November 2022

You raised three different points there. You referred to Scotland, and I think you're right, we can learn from Scotland. Recently, last month, the First Minister, the Minister for Economy and I attended the Ireland-Wales Forum, where we had a round-table discussing renewable energy, and people did want to talk about Scotland. Certainly, I know that the Minister for Climate Change, who's got responsibility for energy, has met with people who are looking at how our planning regime is in relation to new energy developments, for instance, and what we can learn from Scotland in relation to that. We have an abundance of wind, rain and tidal range that we can use to our benefit in relation to renewable energy.

You ask if we support reparation in relation to the climate emergency and climate change. Yes, we do.

In relation to the food commission, you'll be aware that I'm having discussions at the moment, both with Cefin Campbell as part of the co-operation agreement and also Peter Fox, with the Bill that he's bringing forward, to see what we can do. I don't think we need a separate food commission. I think there are things, certainly in Peter Fox's Bill, that we can do without legislation. The concern about a food commission is: where will the money come from? That's something that we're certainly looking at. I'm very keen to continue to talk to both Cefin and Peter in relation to that.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 1:49, 8 November 2022

I'd like to return, finally, to the issue raised earlier about the world cup. You may be aware of a report this morning that the Qatar FIFA World Cup ambassador, Khalid Salman, has described homosexuality as 'damage in the mind', and has said he is worried that children may learn something that is not good from the presence of LGBTQ+ people in the world cup. You referred to the Rainbow Wall; of course, they've decided that they cannot go to this world cup. I've seen discussion that the Football Association of Wales is having with the Qatar Government about creating safe houses for LGBTQ+ people, but the fact that there even has to be that discussion, and that there can be no guarantee ultimately that LGBTQ+ people will not be subject to discrimination and, indeed, even imprisonment, I think shows the gravity of the situation that we're facing.

So, in the light of these most recent comments, will the First Minister potentially be reconsidering his intention to attend? I notice that the Qatar foreign Minister has also said that the criticisms of Qatar in relation to human rights and in relation to migrant workers are arrogant and hypocritical. Does the Welsh Government share that view?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:51, 8 November 2022

So, I can't answer the question as to whether the First Minister will be reconsidering his attendance because, obviously, I'm unable to speak to him—he's unwell—but I'm sure his office will have heard your questions. So, I don't really feel I can answer that.