Item 7, the Marine, Fisheries and Aquaculture (Financial Assistance) Scheme (Wales) Regulations 2022, and I call on the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales to move the motion—Lesley Griffiths. 

Motion NDM8143 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1. Approves that the draft The Marine, Fisheries and Aquaculture (Financial Assistance) Scheme (Wales) Regulations 2022 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 15 November 2022.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm pleased to bring these regulations to the Siambr this afternoon. It would create a financial assistance scheme to support the sector in Wales under the UK Fisheries Act 2020. Having left the European Union, we're taking the opportunity to design an investment scheme specifically for Wales. The scheme is designed to deliver a broad range of policy options and allow the flexibility to target specific priorities. I believe this approach is necessary to navigate the systemic changes and uncertainties we are currently facing. 

The dynamic aspect of the scheme will be the funding rounds. There is scope for significant variation in how these funding rounds will be operated, so the delivery of the financial assistance can be tailored to the purpose for which it's intended. Each funding round will be designed with engagement from stakeholders to meet the requirements of the sector and Government priorities, with the feedback from each application window being considered to inform future funding rounds. 

I'm very grateful to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for expediting the report on these draft regulations so that, subject to the will of the Senedd, we can move ahead with implementing the scheme. Diolch.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Huw Irranca-Davies. 

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. We considered these regulations yesterday afternoon, and our report has also been laid in order to inform Members this afternoon. These regulations establish a scheme for the giving of grants and making of loans by the Welsh Ministers in respect of the activities listed in the Schedule.

The regulations replace a previous set of draft regulations that were laid at the end of September and which my committee considered in mid October. Our report on that previous version of the regulations contained a number of reporting points, both technical and merits-related. So, these revised regulations have indeed been laid to address the points raised in that report, as the Minister noted. Following a request from the Minister, we expedited our scrutiny of the revised version so that this debate could happen this afternoon and the Senedd can be asked to approve the regulations so that the scheme can open before the end of 2022.

So, on these regulations, we've been able to lay a clear report, meaning there are no points to raise, but, Minister, our reason in standing today and saying a few words is that we hope this example demonstrates, indeed, the value of the Senedd as a critical friend to Welsh Government in improving these matters. I'd also like to note that we welcome the inclusion of a detailed regulatory impact assessment in the revised explanatory memorandum that accompanies these regulations, which is in response to reporting point 6 of our previous report. Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. 

I've raised the need for the establishment of a consultative group a number of times, and I was pleased that this new group had met back in July. I've also raised the need to establish a funding scheme on a number of occasions. So, I'm pleased that the consultative group has noted the fisheries funding as a priority, and we have waited too long already for this statement today, but having this debate and a plan is to be welcomed. But I do fear that the regulations proposed, at least on the face of it, don't meet our expectations, and don't meet what we had previously under the European maritime and fisheries fund scheme, or the corresponding schemes in England. 

Today's regulations around funding for fisheries are described as a replacement for the EMFF, which was a targeted funding programme. So, is the Minister convinced that the Wales marine and fisheries scheme makes the same targeted interventions to support Welsh fishing, seafood and aquaculture businesses? We're already nearly a year behind the other countries and constituent parts of the UK with the introduction of a new funding scheme, which has put Welsh fishers at a disadvantage compared to businesses elsewhere, and there are concerns that the funding scheme here does not reflect the necessary targeted intervention measures needed in order to fulfil our statutory duties. What's particularly concerning for the sector is that these plans only offer revenue funds, which severely limits fishers' ability to develop their businesses and, indeed, to allow the sector to reach net zero. It's also disappointing to understand that the funds will be paid in retrospect to fishers, who are already struggling financially. Is it realistic to expect applicants to defray payments, for example, having the financial arrangements in place to fully fund a project to final claim, before the relevant intervention-rate percentage can be reclaimed?

The memorandum of explanation tells us that no consultation has been held and refers instead to 'Brexit and our Seas'. Surely for such an important announcement for this sector, they should have been consulted on this. 'Brexit and our Seas' was published in 2019. Since then, we've had COVID, a dodgy trade agreement, a Wales general election, three Prime Ministers and four Chancellors. The world is a different place today. Fishers in Wales should be central to developing such an important policy.

The previous EMFF were cumbersome and difficult to navigate, which led to a low uptake from fishers in Wales. This is an opportunity to simplify the process, however, it seems to me that this opportunity has been lost, which is another disappointment. Can the Minister therefore assure us that, as this progresses, lessons will be learned to make the application process easier? And what level of support will you put in place to help, advise and assist applicants?

Unlike the EMFF scheme, Welsh Government have broadened the Wales marine and fisheries scheme to include marine, fisheries and aquaculture. How much, therefore, of the overall budget is being allocated to each sector, and how will such sums be evaluated and measured? How will movement of uncommitted funds from one sector heading to the other be scrutinised or approved?

Finally, given the recent agreement and publication of the joint fisheries statement, can the Minister confirm that the Wales marine and fisheries scheme will deliver Welsh strategic objectives for fishers and aquaculture? Because of these issues, we're currently minded to vote against these regulations and would wish that these issues were resolved before regulations come into effect and that the sector is consulted fully, but our position is dependent, of course, on the Minister's response. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I call on the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales to reply.

Thank you very much, and thank you to the two Members who contributed to this debate, and I am grateful to the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for allowing us to have this debate today by expediting the report.

Mabon ap Gwynfor asked some very pertinent questions around the regulations that we're bringing forward today. One of the questions you asked was around why the scheme would be paid retrospectively, and it is standard practice to pay grants in arrears; I think that's a recognised way of safeguarding taxpayers' money. But what we will do is there will be an option to assist with cash flow, really. There will be an option of submitting multiple claims throughout the lifetime of the project rather than just doing one right at the end, of the whole amount.

In relation to your question around why there hadn't been a public consultation: as you yourself pointed out, we'd had the 'Brexit and our Seas' consultation, and that did have a very specific section on future funding, and I think the responses to the questions that we had then are still relevant now, and the questions that were asked have been taken into account in developing this scheme. I think the iterative nature of the scheme lends itself more to an in-depth stakeholder engagement, as opposed to a one-off consultation.

Regarding simplification, you know, I'm absolutely with you on that: don't make things too complex. I would really argue that the complexity of the scheme is in the background, so as to ensure that we do absolutely have that flexibility that we require. The intention is to make the application process, for any given funding round, as simple as possible, so we can achieve its objective. A dedicated stakeholder advisory group, as you know, has been established, and that group will—what I've asked for is if they can identify priorities going forward.

You asked about what the scheme will bring forward, and what I will be looking to ensure is that it is one scheme, but it will be adaptable to changes within the legislative framework, because there's still, obviously, legislation to come forward, and that includes subsidy control, the needs of the sector, Government priorities, and budgetary constraints. Each funding round will target particular policy objectives within the overall scope of the scheme, and that then would allow for that flexible delivery that I think we need to look for.

The aims of the scheme are to give Welsh Ministers the scope and flexibility to provide financial assistance over a wide range of subject areas within the Welsh marine, fisheries and aquaculture sectors. We need to be able to invest strategically, I think, for the long term, and adapt to short-term challenges and opportunities, and really to support our coastal communities, because they certainly need that assistance and, of course, the marine environment. We really want both of those to thrive in tandem with one another, and I will ensure that the scheme is periodically evaluated to make sure that it is successful, so we will certainly learn lessons along the way. Diolch.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. Therefore, I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.