Item 7, a debate on petition P-06-1302, 'Protect Mid-Wales’ unique Cambrian Mountains: designate them an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Jack Sargeant.

Motion NDM8146 Jack Sargeant

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the petition P-06-1302 'Protect Mid-Wales’ unique Cambrian Mountains: designate them an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty' which received 20,889 signatures.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Deputy Presiding Officer. Two thousand and twenty two marks the fiftieth anniversary of plans being drawn up to designate the Cambrian mountains as Wales's first national park. Those plans were never implemented. So, today, here in the heart of democracy, the Welsh Parliament—the people of Wales’s Parliament—is debating a petition submitted by Celia Brazell, which was signed by over 20,000 people who hope that they will not have to wait another 50 years for their landscape, their habitats and their lifestyle to be acknowledged and protected. 

Deputy Presiding Officer, petition P-06-1302, 'Protect Mid-Wales’ unique Cambrian Mountains: designate them an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty', states, and I quote:

'The Cambrian Mountains: endless open skies, outstanding biodiversity, spectacular hills and valleys, 5,000 years' heritage of Welsh language, farming and mining. Their sense of immense space and peace is rare. Sadly, conservation of these uplands gets little attention. Farms are bought up for conifer planting or for large wind farms despite the lack of infrastructure. So beautiful a region needs protection and longer term rural employment. Designate the Cambrians as Mid-Wales’ first area of outstanding natural beauty.'

Members of the Chamber will be aware that Wales is currently home to four and a half areas of outstanding natural beauty: Anglesey, the Clwydian range and Dee valley, the Llŷn peninsula and Gower—all within Wales—plus the Wye valley area of outstanding natural beauty, which spans across England and Wales. We are also home to three national parks: the Brecon Beacons, Pembrokeshire coast and Snowdonia.

Under section 82 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, Natural Resources Wales can designate any area in Wales that is not already a national park as an area of outstanding natural beauty, if the area is of such outstanding natural beauty that it should be conserved and enhanced.

Now, I know that the Minister responding to the debate has extended an invitation to the lead petitioner to meet with the Welsh Government officials and also NRW officers, I quote:

'to discuss some aspects of the proposal to designate in greater detail.'

Myself and committee members are very much looking forward to hearing of any progress made in that area.

Llywydd, the Welsh Government’s programme for government includes a commitment to designate a new national park to cover the Clwydian range and Dee valley, and I know the Member on the opposite side of the Chamber, Darren Millar, will be particularly pleased about the programme for government decision. I know that he's been a natural supporter and keen advocate at times, calling for things such as a national observatory for Wales, and who knows what Mr Millar might see in those dark skies? I know that he in particular has laid questions to this very Senedd about unidentified flying objects in his time as a Member.

Llywydd, I do understand, though, that this work being undertaken by Welsh Government officials and NRW will be focus of officers' time for the immediate short term. But beyond that, would it be possible to look again at the case for the Cambrian mountains?

The Minister has also written to the committee noting that NRW, and I quote again:

'has also committed to undertaking an all-Wales technical assessment of natural beauty. It is intended that this will assess areas against the natural beauty criteria which will help to assess their potential need for future protection.'

The Cambrian Mountains Society has put its back into this campaign, collecting tens of thousands of signatures at events across mid Wales. A group of campaigners came down to the Senedd to hand over the petition on 4 October, and I very much thank Luke Fletcher, Joel James and Russell George for receiving the petition on my behalf and meeting with campaigners.

Now, I know that there are other areas of Wales that have an interest in designating their landscapes, too. My colleague John Griffiths has championed the Gwent levels in recent years. There have been wider proposals to expand the Gower area of outstanding natural beauty, and also to consider Y Berwyn. But for today, because 20,000 people have asked us to, we, the Welsh Parliament, are debating a petition putting the question forward for the Cambrian mountains. As the petitioners say, this is an area that is home to a wide range of biodiversity: birds of prey, red squirrels, otters, pine martens, butterflies, dragonflies, ladybirds and 15 kinds of dung-beetle. It's also home to the people who live and work on the land, passionate people who have led an impressive campaign to give their part of Wales a voice and the status they believe it deserves.

They say, in winding up, Presiding Officer:

'Give the Cambrian Mountains prestige, AONB branding and coherent management and watch the region flourish'.

Diolch yn fawr. 

Thank you, Jack, for bringing this petition forward for debate. In principle, the Welsh Conservatives support this petition. We recognise that protecting this unique area with its exceptional landscape is of national importance. We believe that the Cambrian mountains having area of outstanding natural beauty status will undoubtedly bring benefits to the area, helping to improve recognition for local brands and products, and will help provide further focus on community projects, such as tree planting, tackling invasive non-native species and improving biodiversity, especially in our peatlands. It will help in the management of conservation work and the preservation of traditional skills, and it will help with the training of local horticultural and land management skills. Furthermore, it will open the door to investment through the sustainable development fund and sustainable management schemes, which will help businesses within the AONB flourish.

However, I think it is wise, at this moment, to point out that, whilst we are in favour of designating the Cambrian mountains with AONB status, we have to be mindful that not everyone will be aware of how the status will positively impact them, and as with any change, communities can become nervous when they do not fully understand the implications for them and their livelihoods. We need to be acutely aware that the farming community within this proposed area will still need to make a living and manage the land to provide for us. Communities will still need housing, and younger people will still need a growing economy to support them. With this in mind, I would urge all interested parties who are supporting this AONB status to do their very best in communicating the positive impacts of it, to work closely with farming and other communities so as to better understand their concerns, and then to be mindful of these concerns when determining the final boundaries. Thank you. 

Thank you to Jack Sargeant for bringing forward this debate on the petition on the Elenydd mountains and the area down to the Mallaen mountain. I'm going to state today that we sympathise with the principle of protecting our land, particularly the nature and environment part of that land, but we mustn't forget the people and communities living there too. It's a concern that we've seen a decline in nature over the past 50 years, with species that were once common now under threat, and some having become extinct. That, after all, is why we have declared a nature emergency.

This area that we’re talking about today is alive with nature and we need to take steps to ensure its survival. But I fear that setting an area of outstanding natural beauty designation isn't the best way of doing that. The truth is that the purpose of an AONB is not to achieve these things. Indeed, if you look at areas that have designations such as AONB, sites of special scientific interest or national parks, you will see that they have lost a significant percentage of species over the past 50 years as much as any non-designated area. But, the new agriculture Bill, which has started its journey through the Senedd, now will look at the environmental and ecological needs. It is not by placing an AONB designation that will we tackle the nature emergency in the area, but by working in partnership with people who work the land, live on that land and enjoy the area.

I fear that campaigners talk specifically about concerns about windfarms; it’s worth noting  people's concerns, of course, but setting an AONB designation to prevent such developments would be a misuse of that designation. That's not the purpose of the designation. If people truly are concerned about developments such as windfarms, then the forum to voice those concerns is through the planning process.

Now, AONB is not simply a designation; it has a status and expectations, and those expectations fall, to a great extent, on the local authorities in the area. Creating a new AONB would place additional financial pressures on Ceredigion, Powys and Carmarthenshire, and these counties are already facing grim financial times, so I doubt that they would welcome an AONB designation. The national parks and AONBs are short of the funding for monitoring and short of specialist staff too. Yes, we must improve the condition of our natural areas, and the best way of doing that is to introduce nature restoration targets to invest in habitats that are under threat, in monitoring and in specialist staff.

There is no doubt that this area is an area of outstanding natural beauty; it is glorious and full of history. The potential for developing a circular economy with tourist initiatives in local ownership are great. So, rather than a designation that sets an area in some sort of stasis, we'd much rather look at building on the good work that’s already being done. The Cambrian mountains initiative, which is a partnership between the three counties, has developed a community nature park looking at how to develop and promote the area by learning lessons from the regional nature parks in France, which protect nature, work with communities and develop economic opportunities in a way that respects the environment and the communities. The work of developing such schemes is already in the pipeline by the Cambrian mountains initiative.

So, setting a designation such as AONB is not going to benefit this area, and that's why we are opposing it. But we do believe that there is an opportunity to develop exciting plans in collaboration with communities and people living in the area that would enable people to live on the land to develop the local economy, whilst respecting and strengthening the glorious natural environment in this very special part of Wales.

My thanks to the Petitions Committee for bringing this forward. I'm going to take a slight diversion, and that diversion runs from Chepstow to Conwy. 

The idea of a Cambrian trail through the Cambrian mountains was first envisaged back in 1968, and the late Tony Drake, a legend in Welsh walking and mapping of these walks, in 1994, produced the first guidebook of the Cambrian way, which went all that way from Chepstow to Conwy, through the Cambrian mountains. Back in 2019, I joined with Oliver Wicks, Richard Tyler and Will Renwick—some of you will follow Will Renwick; he's known on Twitter as WillWalksWales—and Ramblers Cymru, to launch, with ramblers, the Cicerone guide to the Cambrian way, the definitive guide now to what is known as the 'mountain connoisseur's walk'. It's the equivalent of two and a half times the ascent and descent of Everest over, depending on how fast you walk it, two and a half to three weeks; two weeks if you really run it fast like Will does. And, in the last 18 months, my credit to Ramblers Cymru and volunteers who have waymarked the entire route. But this is a wild route; nobody should try this route without actually knowing what they're doing. The waymarking is not what you'd see on some other well-waymarked routes there. Four hundred and seventy-nine kilometres, the mountain connoisseur's walk takes in the Brecon Beacons, the great wilds of the Cambrian mountains and Snowdonia.

So, I stand, actually, Dirprwy Lywydd, to praise the wild and awesome—in that literal sense of the word 'awesome'—beauty of the Cambrian mountains. Now, I was born and brought up in Gowerton. My playground as a young man through my teenage years and early 20s, was actually the Gower; that's where I was brought up. It was the first ever area of outstanding natural beauty in the whole of the country. I used to delight in telling UK parliamentary colleagues this: 'Do you want to see where AONBs started? It was in Wales. It was in the Gower.' And, of course, I understand how such a designation can help preserve the very best of a landscape, but, importantly and critically, can also maintain living communities as well. These have to be vibrant, vital communities—the point about not just agriculture, but tourism and other uses within that area.

Now, I've also taken through, with my good friend Hilary Benn, a Bill that created the South Downs National Park—the first for three, four decades that we created—so, I understand the careful balancing of decisions and, indeed, quasi-judicial decisions, the nature of such decisions that face Ministers, and how this must be based on very strict criteria and really good engagement, as well, with communities and stakeholders. So, I am interested in hearing more about the Welsh Government's work on designations—critically, the management of designations, because it's not just giving something a label; it's how you then manage that and work with people—and actually how we bring this up to date in view of things such as the climate and the biodiversity crises too. So, not just old designations fit for the last century, but modern designations as well that take into account what's happening in our country.

And finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, this is not a competition. When I stand on top of the Bwlch mountain in my constituency, and I stand on the Devil's Pulpit, as I do, looking down across Nantymoel and Ogmore vale, there is no place closer to heaven than that. It's not a competition, but my congratulations to the petitioners. You've started a debate now that is bigger than the Cambrian mountains alone.

 I call on the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, Lesley Griffiths.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to begin by thanking the petitioners who raised this very important issue, and also to the Petitions Committee for its thoughtful consideration of the matter.

The Welsh Government fully recognises the vital role that areas of outstanding natural beauty and national parks play in Wales, and is supportive of potential new designations, where appropriate. AONBs, whilst perhaps sometimes seen as the poorer relation of national parks, offer many of the same advantages and protections. AONB teams are often skilled at convening a range of partners to deliver improvements for a landscape area. Arguably, because they have fewer statutory responsibilities such as planning powers, they can be more agile and focus on practical work on the ground. In recent years, we've recognised the power of AONBs to work closely with partners and communities and scaled up the amount of funding we provide to them. Through our sustainable landscapes, sustainable places and sustainable development fund schemes, we have funded a range of biodiversity, decarbonisation, tourism and community projects, totalling over £5 million for the last three years.

The Cambrian mountains of mid Wales are clearly an area of great beauty and tranquillity, as well as being of great importance for the Welsh language and for farming. The petition articulately sets out some of the qualities of this landscape, and I welcome this debate on its future. I'm sure colleagues are aware that the process to designate a new national park in north-east Wales started last year. I expect this to be the focus for efforts around landscape designation for the remainder of this Senedd term. Designation is an exhaustive and detailed process. We also have much to do to improve and empower current designations to contribute more significantly to combating the nature and climate crises. Our areas of outstanding natural beauty and our national parks will be key delivery agents as we seek to meet the 30x30 biodiversity target and improve much more of our land so nature can thrive.

We are, of course, facing climate and nature emergencies, and if we do not think differently about our future, for example taking responsibility for meeting our energy needs in more sustainable ways, these landscapes will not be preserved. This is why we are committed to increasing renewable energy generation. We need to work together as a nation to think differently and find solutions to the challenges we all face. Responsibility for recommending designation of AONBs and national parks rests with Natural Resources Wales. This is set out in legislation, both in the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949 and the Environment Act 1995. It is important that the designation process, once commenced, is rigorous, objective and transparent. There would need to be a strong demonstration of support locally for NRW to commence the designation process, including from the relevant local authorities and local communities. I appreciate the petition the Cambrian Mountains Society has presented does indeed demonstrate a large amount of support both locally and nationally. However, it is not something I'm aware the area's elected representatives have campaigned on or the local authorities in the area have expressed a view on. Those views are very important to hear as NRW considers if it would be appropriate to look at designation for the Cambrians in the future.

It is also worth pointing out that a large percentage of the Cambrian mountains is already subject to strict protection. According to 2015 figures, 17 per cent of the Cambrian mountains are designated as a site of special scientific interest, with nearly 90 per cent of the SSSI area also designated under the European habitats directive as a special area of conservation, or a special protection area, or both. There are also several local and national nature reserves.

It would not be appropriate for me to agree to designate a new AONB here and now, but I'm open to a dialogue as we explore what we need and want from our landscapes. I'm very grateful to organisations such as the Cambrian Mountains Society, who work tirelessly to campaign for and promote the protection of some of our most cherished landscapes. I have asked my officials and officers from NRW to meet with the society to discuss their campaign in more detail. I understand a meeting has been scheduled for next week, and I would be keen to get feedback on that discussion. [Interruption.]

The Minister has finished. Sorry. 

I call on Jack Sargeant to reply to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I start by extending my thanks to the Business Committee for scheduling this debate on the fiftieth anniversary of the initial plans and calls for the area of outstanding natural beauty? I also thank contributors. Joel James spoke in support, in principle, from the Welsh Conservatives, but also noted some of the concerns and what the campaigners would need to do to address them. Mabon ap Gwynfor had a slightly different view to Joel, but also offered solutions in another way to achieve the ambitions of our climate and biodiversity, and my colleague Huw Irranca-Davies also noted the biodiversity emergency and climate crisis by taking us on a diversion through the Cambrian trail. As chair of the cross-party group on beer and pubs, I'm sure he will take my recommendation next time he does it to stop by and try visiting some of the best breweries along the Cambrian way. I'm very happy to share the link of the Visit Wales website with him so that he can do that.

Are you paying?

I might not. The Minister may, I'm sure. [Laughter.]

But, just responding to the Minister directly, if I may—Huw Irranca set me up very nicely there—the Minister did importantly note the work the Welsh Government are doing, the work NRW are doing, and the requirements that would be needed to accept a proposal of an area of outstanding natural beauty, in particular one to the campaigners that I think will be important for the campaigners, which is for them to get the views and perhaps campaign to and lobby the local representatives, the local authorities, because that's the important part, and that was clear in the Minister's response. But I do thank her and her officials for her openness and work, and thank her for working with the committee in that way.

In closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, once again, this is the people's committee—the people of Wales's committee. I thank the petitioners for engaging, the 20,000 plus people who signed, and diolch yn fawr iawn for hearing this debate this afternoon. Thank you.

The proposal is to note the petition. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Objection? Yes, there is objection. Therefore, I will defer voting under this item until voting time. 

Voting deferred until voting time.