5. What plans does the Government have to improve the energy efficiency of the housing stock in Arfon? OQ58899

Diolch, Siân Gwenllian. There are a number of programmes designed to help improve energy efficiency of homes across Wales, including in Arfon. These include the optimised retrofit programme and the Warm Homes programme.

As you'll know, the problems experienced by some of my constituents with energy efficiency measures under the Arbed 2 scheme still haven't been resolved. I am grateful that your officials are dealing with cases relating to two specific contractors, and it would be useful to hear when we can expect an update on this.

As we look to future schemes, it's exceptionally important, isn't it, that quality assurance is available in terms of the work that is done. One way of doing that would be to create a skilled workforce locally, and that's one aim behind a new initiative, the Tŷ Gwyrddfai initiative in Penygroes, which is a new and innovative decarbonisation centre that I visited recently. This is the first centre of its kind in Wales, and indeed in the United Kingdom, which is drawing several partners together under the Adra housing association, on a factory site that closed a few years ago, namely Northwood Hygiene.

I feel very excited about this project and the important work that could be achieved there to tackle energy poverty and climate change, as well as creating a skilled workforce and local supply chains for the decarbonisation agenda. So, I would like, on behalf of the partners—the Tŷ Gwyrddfai partners—to extend a warm welcome to you to visit the centre, and there will be a very warm welcome for you there.

Diolch, Siân. I very much want to visit, and I hope you will invite me formally and I can do that very soon. We're very pleased with the way the decarbonisation hub is working out. You've set out the history of the factory that closed and so on there. We were very pleased to be able to give £239,000 worth of a Transforming Towns placemaking grant to enable the transition into the hub—very delighted to have done that.

We know that the in-house contractor for Adra is going to do a retrofit of Adra-owned social homes and will have itself a space in the hub. As you rightly say, what we're hoping from all of these programmes that we're supporting—the optimised retrofit and these programmes—is that we will both overskill the workforce to produce the skilled workforce that you were just talking about, which we absolutely need to do, that we'll be able to identify what the skills are and where the shortages are, so that I can work with my colleague the education Minister and my colleague the economy Minister to make sure that our FE colleges are providing the right kind of provision for the workers of the future in the retrofit space, and that we can do the learning so necessary to ensure that we don't have the problems that you've rightly identified we had with previous schemes, which not only didn't always do what they said on the tin, but actually didn't even come with guarantees of the work and so on, so we've certainly learnt those lessons. We don't want to be in that position in the future. So, I'd be delighted to come and visit. I think it's a really good exemplar scheme of its type, and it is exactly the way that we're rolling out the right fit, the right tech for the right home, right across Wales, rather than the one-size-fits-all that has led to the problems in your constituency and Huw Irranca's and others', with the resulting misery to the homeowners, which we certainly wish to avoid in the future.

Responding as chair of the cross-party group on fuel poverty and energy efficiency to your statement on improving the energy efficiency of Welsh homes on 8 November, I referred to the Equality and Social Justice Committee recommendations for the Welsh Government to ensure that the Warm Homes programme embeds the fabric and worst-first approach to retrofitting, as well as targeting the poorest households and the least efficient homes, and asked how you will ensure that the programme embeds this. Your reply concluded,

'we constantly look to see whether it's better to help more people do one thing than it is to help very much fewer people do everything, and I'm afraid that's one of the balances we're constantly wrestling with.'

I thank you for subsequently agreeing to work with the cross-party group on this, and to attend our next meeting on 13 February. But in the meantime, how do you respond to the concern raised by Gwynedd Council's fuel poverty officer at the cross-party group's last meeting in November, that there are high levels of non-compliant stock with the Welsh housing quality standard in Gwynedd?

I would respond with some surprise, Mark, because all authorities have met the standard for the Welsh housing quality, which is EPC D, apart from what are called 'acceptable fails'. So, if you have details of why he's concerned that the stock isn't up to standard, I'd certainly like to see it. His own council has submitted returns to us saying that they are satisfied that they have rolled out the Welsh housing quality standard, so, I'd genuinely like to see what's being referred to there. So, I'd like to understand that. 

We are in the process of discussing with registered social landlords and stock holding councils right across Wales the next iteration of the Welsh housing quality standard and to what level we expect homes to be retrofitted yet again. So, we're going to bring them up from the EPC D that we currently have, which I'll remind you we were told we could never possibly do in the time but we have actually managed to do it. We're in advanced discussions about where the next stage will be—EPC B, A—what can we bring homes up to and for what level of money, and over what time period. So, it will be very important to understand any difficulties in the previous iteration, and I would really very much like to see the evidence that has been put in front of you, so that we can have a look at it. But, I assure you that our gold standard is to make sure that all homes capable of being brought to the standard of the Welsh housing quality standard are brought to that standard, and there's a rigorous investigation of why any home couldn't be brought to that standard, and the acceptable fails are minimised and we understand the reason for them, rather than not doing anything to the properties that we think couldn't come up to the full standard. So, that's the situation as it is at the moment.