Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:43 pm on 24 January 2023.
Thank you, Minister, for this important statement today. I fully accept the point that you've made, we all know people who haven't ticked that box in terms of the Welsh language in the census. But, I have to say that I am concerned in hearing you say a number of times, as the First Minister has also done—you used the words 'just' the census. But, the census is exceptionally important. In 2011, the Government said, as a result of those results, that the census results would steer their work on the Welsh language now and for the future.
Certainly, I don't want us to give the impression that the census isn't a very important tool. If we think that 96.4 per cent of residents did respond, compared to the 12,000 who take part in the annual Welsh survey, there might be questions to ask of that survey, more so than of the census. What I would like to see is that we shouldn't discount these results, but that we take that clear warning, the warning that we received in 2011, and the Government acknowledged how important the census was in those terms. Because, clearly, the census does seek to ensure that those statistics look at all of the data available in order to provide assurances that the statistics are of the best quality and value for users. So, can I ask, therefore, why there's been a change between 2011 and now in how the Government considers the census results, and what reason is there to question particularly the data this time? I would like to understand, particularly if the emphasis has been so important in the past, why this change now, if you're referring to a sample of 12,000 in the Welsh Government's annual survey.
But this doesn't help us in terms of—. We know of people's experiences; we speak to them. There were pupils from an English-medium school who were in today, aged 13 and 14, saying, 'Well, we've already missed out on the opportunity of accessing the Welsh language.' These have been in our education system since the establishment of this Senedd, they've gone to secondary school since the target of a million Welsh speakers has existed, so we know of people who are losing out on opportunities in our education system now. I was pleased to hear you say that that is a priority of yours, in considering your response—what are the experiences of every pupil in Wales, whatever school they attend? And I certainly feel that this is a question that was asked a decade ago, but, if we are serious about ensuring that that target of a million Welsh speakers is a target, rather than simply being an aspiration, then we have to see action. And certainly, I don't want to see this target being treated in the same way as the target of eradicating child poverty by 2020, where we have a situation that child poverty is higher than ever. This has to be a real target. And that's why we have been seeing these WESPs develop. And there are targets there that have been missed time and time again, and Sam Kurtz was quite right about that target. It's not just these results that are worrying, but it's the targets underneath the million Welsh speakers that are being missed already, even in the early years of the programme.
And the point on the number of teachers is exceptionally important because—. We have questioned this on a number of occasions and it's very important in terms of, if we say that we need to train around 550 teachers every year, and we're only reaching 250, then, obviously, we're not going to reach the target—that's quite clear. When I was a councillor on RCT council, I saw year on year that we were missing targets, if we are to reach a million Welsh speakers, in terms of the number of pupils in Welsh-medium education. So, I think that our interventions have to be far more radical, because, if we know that the targets we're already pursuing, we're falling behind in that regard, then how can that equate to the census results?
What I'd also like to ask is—. You refer to that feeling of national pride as part of all of this, but that isn't going to keep the Welsh language alive, and we do need to ensure that those opportunities outside the classroom are available. What concerns me with the cost-of-living crisis is that those are the kinds of activities that we will see being lost if there isn't use of them and if councils don't see their value, or because they're non-statutory services. And I think we do have to look seriously at that.
You mentioned in your statement that everyone has a role, but there is prominent role for Government here, because it is the Government's target. So, what I would like some clarity on today is what is the change in terms of your attitude towards the census results. Why don't you refer to just the census? And in earnest, how are we to ensure that we don't miss those targets, that we do work together, rather than coming together in another 10 years to then say we need radical action when we have the opportunity now?