Questions now from party spokespeople. Conservative spokesperson, Samuel Kurtz. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Every year for the last five years, over 10,000 cattle have been slaughtered. Over 50,000 dead due to bovine TB in Wales, and this includes pregnant cows slaughtered due to testing TB positive. A farmer recounted to me the time they watched their heavily pregnant cow slaughtered on farm, using a 12-bore shotgun between the poor animal's eyes, the trigger was pulled. Post death, the pregnant cow uncontrollably spasmed, destroying a heavy gate, the unborn calf writhing inside its dead mother's womb as it suffocated to death. It's something akin to watching someone die from poison, they said. It was horrendous to see, and clearing up all the blood and smashed gate afterwards was just as punishing. That's how the farmer described it—no compassion for the cow, the calf, and certainly not for the farmer. 'Better I get more distressed than my cow', they add, 'I get to walk away from it, she doesn't; it's the least I can do.' This heavy mental burden is being put on our farmers, especially when it happens more than once. That farmer told me how three pregnant cows were shot, one after another. 'It just about killed me; I will never forget what I saw'—that's how they described it. In-womb TB transmission is rare, so why are these traumatic events allowed to happen? Will the Welsh Government show that compassion and change its policy to allow bovine TB-positive in-calf cows and heifers to isolate and give birth to healthy calves before being humanely slaughtered?

You clearly outlined a very distressing situation, and I'm very sorry to hear that you and the farmer felt there was no compassion. This was actually a piece of work that we undertook, probably four years ago, where I asked the then chief veterinary officer and her team to work with farmers to see how we could avoid situations like you describe. At the time, it was deemed to be the best way to carry on with that on-farm slaughter. In terms of whether we could look at it again, I would be very happy to do so. As you know, we are looking at the TB eradication programme, and I'd certainly be very happy to take advice from farmers to see if there is a way that we can avoid those distressing situations.

Thank you, Minister. I don't think what I described would be the best way forward, so I really do urge you to have a look at this again. I know a new CVO is starting in March, and I would urge you to work with him to make sure that this inhumane practice is brought to an end and those cows can calve with a little bit of dignity.

At last year's Pembrokeshire County Show, you helped launched what was being called at the time a Pembrokeshire TB pilot, where local farmers were going to take ownership, using data and methods already available, to form a new approach to tackling TB, removing the residual disease from the herd. Since then, the project has seen hundreds of hours of hard work from volunteers, who are desperate to see improvements. The interim chief veterinary officer even made reference to this pilot at committee, stressing how the Welsh Government could be agile with funding to support local TB projects such as the Pembrokeshire pilot. This project and its progress has now been stonewalled by the Government and its procurement process, with a minimum of a six-month delay. I can't tell you the disappointment that has been felt by those involved.

You've talked about farmers needing to take ownership of bovine TB, and I agree. But when it comes to a committed group of farmers and vets working together to take control of the situation, to do the right thing, the Welsh Government aren't even on the same pitch. We're no longer in the European Union, so we shouldn't have to abide by EU procurement rules, and the funding for this project already exists within TB funding. Please tell me what has gone wrong here to mean that this project, which you were at the launch of, has been delayed such as this. 

Nothing has gone wrong. As the Member states, my officials are currently holding significant internal discussions to agree the parameters of the project to allow for a full procurement exercise. You'd be the first to complain if I didn't follow the appropriate rules. I am very committed to the TB Pembrokeshire project. I know you have been part of it; as you say, many volunteers have, and I'm very grateful for that work. If we are going to tackle deep-seated levels of infection in parts of Pembrokeshire, I absolutely think that this is required. But it's not a matter of being stonewalled—I think that that's completely the wrong word. You and I had a meeting to discuss what we could do about it, but I have to follow a full procurement process.

It's a shame that those full procurement rules weren't followed when Gilestone Farm was purchased. It seems it's one rule for one and one rule for another.

Another example of the Welsh Government not being on the same pitch as farmers is that not one Welsh farm took part in the Animal and Plant Health Agency's CattleBCG vaccine trial. Surely if Welsh Government were serious about eradicating TB then they would have worked with the industry to identify farms to take part. And now, with phase 2 of the trial under way, still no Welsh farms are participating. What I'm trying to get at, Minister, is where is the hope for farmers in Wales? This disease has ripped through Welsh farming for long enough, and our farmers have lost hope that this Government is serious about solving it.

I'll happily declare an interest here, Llywydd, because next week I'll be out TB testing, helping my father. We as a family will be going through the worry and the stress of hoping, praying for a clear TB test. This isn't just policy for me, Minister, this is so much more. So, I invite you to join my father and me, to come out and see what happens on farm during our TB tests. Because what the industry wants is hope—not to see their animals slaughtered in front of their eyes, not to be held back by bureaucracy when they want to get on and do the right thing, and certainly not to be told that they are at fault for the spread of bovine TB. Please, Minister, give the industry some hope. 

I'm not quite sure how you expect me to make a farm be part of a pilot project. Please believe me when I say that APHA tried very, very hard to—[Interruption.] APHA tried very, very hard to get farms to be part of the first phase of the pilot project, and unfortunately we've had no takers for the second part. But to say that we haven't tried is ridiculous. The Animal and Plant Health Agency have done a great deal of work to try and get some of the farms to be part of the pilot project.

I have attended farms when TB testing is being undertaken—of course I have. I absolutely see that very much as part of my role. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend your farm next week, but, of course, that is something that I have undertaken. I absolutely understand the distress in the lead-up to testing—I can imagine the concerns—and, of course, while you're waiting for the results. That's why we are committed to eradicating TB. But we all really need to work together. Just to blame Welsh Government is not acceptable. I would never just blame farmers. 

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Mabon ap Gwynfor. 

Thank you, Llywydd. We are now at the beginning, or, in some cases, in the middle, of the lambing season. Naturally, therefore, we turn our sights towards securing the safety of our stock from attacks. Recent data from NFU Mutual shows that out-of-control dogs threaten sheep in Wales, with the data showing that animals to the value of around £440,000 have been seriously injured or killed in Wales in 2022. This was an increase of over 15 per cent on the previous year. The review also showed that 64 per cent of dog owners allow their dogs to run free in rural areas, and farmers say that these owners are focused on their mobile phones rather than on their dogs. Scotland has introduced far harsher penalties, with fines of up to £40,000. What steps is the Government taking to introduce preventative steps here in Wales in order to ensure that we don't see more animals suffering in Wales this year?

Thank you. You raise a very important point, and it's an issue that we take very seriously. We really would encourage livestock keepers to continue to report all incidents to the police. I think I should say that at the outset. I think it's really important that that information is recorded. But of course, what we want to see is a drop and a complete reduction in those numbers of attacks. I think you just made a really important point about mobile phones, which I hadn't thought about. As you are aware, the wildlife and rural crime commissioner has just released some new videos as part of a campaign, as we approach the lambing season, to warn people about looking after their animals, making sure their dogs don't chase sheep. I know it's a minority of people, but, of course, as is always the case, they spoil it for the majority of us. I will ask him if he has considered that aspect of mobile phone usage as well, because, as you say, people are distracted and then they're not looking at what their dogs are doing.

I think the cost, both financially and emotionally, to those who find injured or dead livestock is just wholly unacceptable, and lots of animal welfare implications come from that as well. You'll probably be aware that the UK Government are proposing the Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill. That proposes to repeal and replace the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953. As you can see, it's a very old piece of legislation that clearly needs bringing up to date to be fit for purpose. Within that Bill, there'll be a new set of provisions to address the issue of dog attacks and dog worrying. Unfortunately, the Bill has been stalled. I did have a meeting with the DEFRA Minister to see how quickly that Act can be brought forward, because I think that will help us, looking at what the courts can do, and maybe looking at increasing the fines.  

Thank you, Minister for that response. 

If I may change to the other sector within your portfolio, from agriculture to aquaculture and fisheries, the most recent data on the fishing industry in Wales shows us that farmed finfish and shellfish saw a massive 82 per cent fall in value between 2019 and 2021. Over the last 10 years, we've seen Welsh fishing fleet landings reduced by 75 per cent in weight and 41 per cent in value. Their profitability is also down significantly. We are seeing the decline of an ancient sector—part of our coastal life and our culture and identity disappearing in front of our eyes. It is no different in the processing sector. By 2021, we only had 28 full-time equivalent jobs in the processing sector here in Wales. In Scotland, by contrast, they employ 7,789 in the processing sector. Minister, is this an acceptable state of affairs, and will you look again at significantly increasing investment and support into fisheries and aquaculture in Wales?

I have had discussions with the fisheries sector. I'm very aware of the reported decline. I do recognise they've had some unprecedented pressures due to leaving the European Union, the COVID pandemic, more recently the hyperinflation of fuel that has been caused by the war in Ukraine, and obviously then the cost-of-living crisis. I think a lot of these pressures are at play across all our primary production sectors.

I've asked officials to closely monitor the impact on markets and costs, and they're working with Seafish to better understand the trends and to identify areas where mitigations and interventions could possibly be made to halt the regrettable decline. I've also recently launched the Welsh marine and fisheries scheme. The marketing measures window closed last week, and officials are appraising the projects in the coming weeks. And we've got the second window—actually, I think it might have just closed this month—the energy efficiency and mitigation of climate change window, which I was asked to bring forward. 

On the positive side, we're again having a Welsh pavilion at the Seafood Expo Global in Barcelona in April where we can actually promote our Welsh seafood. It's always been a very successful trade mission for us, so I was keen to support it again this year to try and do what we can for our fishing and aquaculture businesses.