Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Mark Isherwood.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, thank you for attending the cross-party group on fuel poverty and energy efficiency meeting in November, when concern was raised by Gwynedd Council's fuel poverty officer that there are high levels of non-compliant stock with the Welsh housing quality standard in Gwynedd. When he asked you whether you could comment on the high levels of non-compliant stock with the Welsh housing quality standard, or WHQS, in Gwynedd, you noted the point for officials to take back to the Minister for Climate Change. When I subsequently raised this with the Minister for Climate Change in this Chamber, she asked me to send her further details, which I did. And in her response, she stated that,

'As at 31 March 2022, 100 per cent of social housing dwellings were compliant with WHQS, 78 per cent fully compliant, but 22 per cent were only compliant subject to an acceptable fail'.

Given your overarching responsibility for fuel poverty in the Welsh Government, how do you respond to official figures showing that almost 30 per cent of the social housing stock in Gwynedd is termed 'acceptable fails', equivalent to the level in Flintshire, and rising to almost 42 per cent in Denbighshire, that Anglesey has the highest level of prepayment meters in Wales, at almost 29 per cent, followed by Gwynedd at almost 22 per cent, and to the statement made to me by Gwynedd Council's fuel poverty officer, when I met him last week, that, in Gwynedd and Anglesey, where the rent is the same and yet energy costs can be significantly higher, this appears to be linked to broader rural off-gas and older property issues? 

Clearly, this is an issue where across Government, working with my colleague the Minister for Climate Change, Julie James, we are leading on this all-important issue with our Warm Homes programme, which, of course, is now moving into an iteration for its next development, which will be about a demand-led approach. And, of course, that will help to address these issues. 

I'm glad that you've raised the point about the fact that a great many people are very vulnerable on prepayment meters, and I hope you also will have heard my call again, and, actually, I think even Grant Shapps is saying he's sympathetic to the prospect of, actually, the UK Government not increasing the energy price guarantee from April. I think this is a key call that we must make across this Chamber today, because we need to make sure that we can support those most vulnerable households on prepayment meters. And, also, I hope you will be supportive of my calls for a social tariff as well, which, indeed, the UK Government and Ofgem have said that they are beginning to look at. But we have a serious issue here in terms of those who are most vulnerable, and, also, of course, the work that is being undertaken in terms of the retrofit of social housing is moving at pace with the allocation of funding this year and next. 

Thanks. Well, I'll leave the primary point you made for the topical question later, which, of course, is on that very subject. But this month's Bevan Foundation State of Wales briefing states that the energy efficiency of properties varies greatly across Wales, and that, although all social housing in Wales was deemed to comply with the Welsh housing quality standard, more than a fifth has at least one acceptable fail. Again, given your overarching responsibility for fuel poverty in the Welsh Government, and, as we move forward to WHQS 2023, how do you respond to Gwynedd Council's fuel poverty officer who asked me,

'How can we move on if we haven't finished the homework from the last granulation of WHQS, especially given the cost of retrofit for pre-1900 property', and who stated,

'I had another quick glance at WHQS 2023. I didn't spot the magic words "acceptable fail", but there seems to be a healthy peppering of caveats, no clear acknowledgement of the differing starting places on the grid, and that getting an off-gas ex-Forestry Commission cottage from 1910 to SAP 80 is rather tricky'?

Well, I'm sure all of those you've engaged with in north Wales, including local authorities, will have contributed to the latest consultation on the Welsh housing quality standard. The Welsh housing quality standard has been very important in terms of the standards in social housing, which you will recognise across Wales have been second to none. But it has had to be revised and reviewed in terms of the circumstances, and also our ambitions in terms of moving to net zero with the 20,000 social housing target that we've got. And, of course, that does mean that the Welsh housing quality standard is taking into account all of the issues that you raise. 

But, as I said, the budget has been there. The funding has been made available by the Minister for Climate Change, in terms of the investment in retrofit for our social housing, and, indeed, the Welsh housing quality standard will move forward as a result of this consultation. 

Well, thank you. Again, I remember debating these issues 20 years ago in the predecessor Chamber, with similar responses, albeit in a different financial context. Unless points raised with me by Gwynedd Council's fuel poverty officer are addressed, the next Welsh Government's Welsh housing quality standard and Warm Homes programme will be starting on a false premise, and aiming for standards that cannot be achieved where needs are greatest, without creative presentation of data. Given your overarching responsibility for fuel poverty in the Welsh Government, how do you respond to the proposal by Gwynedd Council's fuel poverty officer for the next Welsh Government's Warm Homes programme to join up the Welsh Government's Nest scheme with the UK Government's energy company obligation scheme? And, given the climate change Minister's statement that she expects to procure a new, demand-led replacement scheme, which tackles both the climate emergency and fuel poverty, before the end of the year—there'll be no gap in provision between the new and existing programmes—how do you respond to concerns within the Fuel Poverty Coalition that this will allow the current Nest scheme to run into, say, April 2024, after next winter, before the next demand-led replacement scheme starts?

Indeed, Mark Isherwood, I think you would have appreciated the discussion and scrutiny that I had on Monday at the Equality and Social Justice Committee about these very issues and the assurance I gave that there would be no gap between the Warm Homes schemes in terms of the existing scheme and the one that will move forward, which will be procured by the end of the year. And, of course, it will take on board lessons learnt, but it is also clearly ensuring that we work in collaboration wherever possible, not just indeed with our local authorities, as is crucial to the delivery of it, but also with the UK Government as well.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Peredur Owen Griffiths, and the questions will be answered by the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership. Peredur Owen Griffiths

Diolch, Llywydd. I welcome the mention of the real living wage in social care in your statement on fair work yesterday. Plaid Cymru has been a strong campaigner for many years for a pay increase for those dedicated and absolutely essential staff working in social care. One-off payments, like the one we saw during the pandemic, are welcome, but they are no substitute for being paid what you deserve. My concern is that cash boosts may not always filter down to those staff on the ground, including those third sector providers who have local authority contracts. What mechanisms or processes are being put in place to ensure that any cash injection to local authorities to improve the pay of social care staff is being passed on to those it is intended for, including those third sector partners?

I welcome the Member's interest in this area and very much share what he said in terms of the—whilst one-off payments are welcome, it is about the implementation of the real living wage, but actually the real living wage is just one part of an element of a fair work package and what we're seeking to do through the social care fair work forum to sustain the sector well into the future, as well as, what we discussed, as you said, in the statement around fair work today—yesterday, sorry; I'm losing track of days.

I'm working very closely with my colleague Julie Morgan to make sure that actually, clearly, we have the access more directly through local authorities, but also working through those commissioning services and the infrastructure that's in place to ensure that those payments are made promptly. And the Deputy Minister for Social Care and I did attend, just prior to the recess, an event not far from here in Cardiff, to celebrate the payment of the real living wage and the new uplift for social care workers. But, quite rightly, community groups there and care workers were holding our feet to the fire to go further and to actually support the real living wage right across Wales, but also across the sector as a whole, and it's very much something we're committed to in a sustainable way.

Thank you very much for that answer.

Back last month, your Government unveiled a new LGBTQ+ action plan. You also signalled intent to start negotiating with the UK Government to devolve powers related to gender recognition. This is a positive step and it is something that, in principle, Plaid Cymru supports wholeheartedly. The current Tory Government is the most regressive and hate-filled Government in generations. The further we can distance ourselves from them, particularly on matters of equality, the better. Unfortunately, your position was undermined just a few days later on the Sharp End programme, not just by the Tory David T.C. Davies, but also by his fellow panellist, and your colleague, Jo Stevens. She said that she would not approve of giving gender recognition powers to Wales because, and I quote,

'equalities legislation is UK-wide legislation'.

Deputy Minister, what is the position of the Welsh Labour Government on the devolution of powers on gender recognition? How disappointed were you by those comments of your party colleague, whose constituency lies only a stone's throw away from our Parliament?

Can I first of all thank Peredur Griffiths and Plaid Cymru for the work we've done collectively on the LGBTQ+ action plan and that solidarity and collaborative working, which are so important on these fundamental issues of equality and human rights and dignity? The Welsh Labour Government's position with regards to supporting the trans community and the devolution of gender recognition powers remains as it was; it is the same. It is a commitment in our programme for government and in the co-operation agreement, and it's also one of the 46 actions within the LGBTQ+ action plan to trigger the request to devolve those powers, and then it will be a matter for this Senedd, if that was successful, to determine how those powers are applied. I hear what the Member says in terms of the—. I regret the kind of party political element of that. [Interruption.] We have disagreements within—[Interruption.] We have—

You can carry on with your answers. You don't have to take any notice of anybody who's speaking in the Chamber.

Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you for that. I think one of the dangers of this discussion—the topic—is that we degenerate into party political point scoring and matters. I think, if a future UK Labour Government was going to legislate on this and gender recognition reform, I'd be very happy to work collaboratively with that to ensure that we do support the trans community here in Wales and across the UK. And I think we all have challenges within our own parties, whether that be elsewhere or in Scotland at the moment during the SNP leadership contest as well.