Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, will you provide a statement on the budget for the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales?

There have been previous statements and responses to questions that have set out the budget—that's all in the public domain. I don't think there's any dispute or any lack of any transparency about what that budget amounts to.

Can I welcome you back from your recent mission to Ukraine, which we were all cheering you on with, along with Alun Davies, our other Senedd colleague, and wish you a very happy St David's Day?

I appreciate the response that you've given, and we have crossed swords on this issue of the budget on a number of occasions in the past. But we know that one of the things that you have asked the constitutional commission to do is to consider how it can develop progressive principal options to strengthen Welsh democracy and deliver improvements for the people of Wales. Now, you've set out in the draft budget for the Welsh Government for the next two years, an extra £2.2 million that is going to be spent, and many people are asking me—and I'm sure they're asking people on your benches too, Minister—whether that's a good use of public money, given the other challenges that Wales is currently facing. As you well know, the Welsh Government receives £1.20 for every £1 that's spent on a devolved matter in England, and the public, it seems to me, want that money spending on issues like schools, hospitals, roads and other priorities, all of which you appear to be disinvesting in. You're spending it, of course, on this commission—a commission to support what we perceive to be an attempt to do some power grabbing from Westminster. So, the commission is scheduled to complete its work by the end of this calendar year—by December of this year. Why on earth have you put more money in that budget line, to take it through to March 2025, if it's going to be finishing its work this year?

Well, can I firstly thank you for your comments about my recent visit to Ukraine, and thank you, and also the other Members, for the support that was given? You may have seen from social media that the considerable materials that were taken over were on the front line in Ukraine within 24 hours, and that perhaps highlights the urgency but the importance of support, and also the fact, of course, that I think there are more Welsh flags flying on the Ukrainian front line at the moment than from any other country. But I think the recognition of that connection—. Bearing in mind Donetsk, where much of the fighting is taking place, of course, was developed by a Welshman, and formerly known as Hughesovka, after John Hughes. So, we have a connection there. So, thank you for those particular comments.

In respect of the independent commission, as you say, it has another 12 months' work or so to go. It has to publish a report. So, obviously, a significant amount of expenditure will be involved in completing that, particularly as, when I met with the members of the commission, they were outlining very clearly the work they were going to do, which was to try to get to those aspects of communities, people and individuals that are very, very difficult to engage with. I don't think this is a waste. It was Aneurin Bevan who said that the trouble with the Conservative Party is that they know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I put a very high value on our democracy, and I think there is a challenge over our democracy, in terms of turnouts, in terms of engagement, in terms of the way in which people perceive politics and believe that their voice actually counts. So, I think what is happening at the moment, and at a moment of constitutional instability—that what we are doing is very, very important. It's very important to look to the future of our democracy, our governance, how we engage with our communities, how we're perceived by the communities and how democracy works within Wales. So, I think you will find—. I'm absolutely convinced that, by the end of this, you will stand up and you will say, 'Well, I made all these comments in the past, but I'm satisfied now that this has been real value for money for the future.'

Well, I always reflect on my comments, but I can't, still, understand why on earth, given that the commission is supposed to complete its work in the current calendar year, you have allocated expenditure that takes it through to March 2025. You still haven't answered that principal question. Why is a commission, which is due to be finished, having in your budget line—in the Welsh Government's indicative budget for 2024-25—this £1.1 million further? It seems to me that that is a waste of resource, and, particularly, when we have people across Wales right now struggling with the pressures of the cost-of-living issues that they face, when we know that our NHS continues to be under significant pressure, when people have still, unfortunately, according to the Programme for International Student Assessment—not me, Joyce Watson—the worst education system in the UK, and the lowest take-home pay? Why is it that you would allocate a further £1.1 million for this, what we regard as an unnecessary commission, in the year after it has completed its work? We still haven't had an answer to that question, and I would request one once again. 

Well, I'll give you the answer. I think the answer is that, once the commission has produced its report and its findings, that isn't necessarily the end of the matter. There is a process, then, of engagement. There is a process of involvement to actually turn the conclusions—well, to explain the conclusions, to engage with those who've participated, but also, then, to seek how you can convert those conclusions into practical change. And I think that's a process that doesn't suddenly end in one January, the moment the report is actually delivered. 

If we really want to see this report being more than just another document that analyses all the problems and the issues that we've raised with regard to our constitution, I think there has to be a process that engages. If, of course, the work ceases before then—if that work is actually concluded earlier—then, obviously, that money won't be spent. But unless you've actually budgeted for it, it can't happen, particularly if it needs to happen. 

The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, which was only introduced in September of last year, has been an unmitigated disaster—designed to remove all remaining retained EU law from the UK statute book by the tenth anniversary of the Brexit referendum at the very latest. The Bill introduces a sunset clause, whereby the majority of retained EU law—thousands of pieces of legislation—will be automatically disapplied after 31 December 2023, unless it's otherwise preserved as assimilated law. 

On 18 November, the independent Regulatory Policy Committee issued its view that the Bill's impact assessment is not fit for purpose. The committee rated aspects of the impact assessment, such as its rationale and the cost-benefit analysis, as either 'weak' or 'very weak'. In early January, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy admitted it had spent £600,000 on staffing costs alone in just two months as part of its review of the Bill, despite holding responsibility for only 318 pieces of retained EU law.

In light of this brief snapshot of the cost to the UK Government of this ill-thought-out Bill, what is the Welsh Government's current estimate of the resource demands, both in terms of cost and staffing, arising from the ongoing review of Welsh-specific retained EU law?

Thank you for that question, and it's a very important question, and it's a very difficult question to answer. If I start, perhaps, with the resource part first, it's very difficult to say what the precise resources are. These are conversations and discussions that I will be having. I've been having discussions; they are ongoing. It's a bit difficult to evaluate the resources that are necessary to deal with what we don't know. There is so much we don't know in terms of, firstly, what the UK Government is going to do in those aspects of retained law. We obviously have to analyse ourselves, and I've obviously been looking at a list of all the Welsh retained EU law that we would want to consider. It's difficult to consider what might happen to that, because, to some extent, that depends on what decisions might be taken in England, because so many of these areas relate to, for example, issues of enforcement, common governance and so on.

So, there are many unknown factors that are actually involved. So, we're trying to do that evaluation. We're also uncertain precisely as to what the precise nature of the Bill is going to be. The view of the Welsh Government is that the Bill should be withdrawn. It serves actually no real purpose whatsoever. It is really the most appalling way of dealing with legislation. The idea that you can suddenly just wipe out thousands of pieces of legislation by a particular deadline without any real time to consider what the implications of those are and what the implications are for devolution—.

The House of Lords is currently discussing the Bill. So, it's at Committee Stage; it will go to Report Stage within a couple of weeks. There are obviously areas there where we would like to see amendments being made to it. We'd like particularly the issue of concurrent powers to be resolved, that UK Government will not exercise powers in respect of devolved areas without consent of the Welsh Government. I think the other area is, of course, in terms of the time period. If UK Government has a get out of jail card in respect of being able to extend the sunset deadline, we will ask for that as well. Why should we not have that exact opportunity as well? So, there are many factors to this Bill that are undecided at this stage, and the issue of resources is going to be a significant one. I'm sure there will be further questions to me on it. I will update the Senedd, of course, in due course, when I'm able to say more about precisely what is going to happen, and it may well be a couple of weeks yet before we know the precise format of the Bill.

Diolch. Yes, as you say, time is running out with it, because it's a hard deadline, and, as you say, I'd be very interested in understanding what extension is possible and what we could do here to help with that cliff edge. The rushed nature of this Bill raises the very real prospect of critical regulations in a range of policy areas being either replaced by substandard alternatives or dropping off the statute book completely. We must also bear in mind the limited capacity of the Welsh Government to consider the full implications of repealing, amending or assimilating Welsh-specific retained EU law. As such, and in the light of the fact that the UK Minister has alone possessed the ability to extend that sunset clause of December, a degree of pragmatic prioritisation may need to take place to effectively manage the workload in the remaining months available to Welsh Ministers. What specific regulations or other policy areas is the Welsh Government prioritising in its review of the Welsh-specific retained EU law? 

Thank you for the further question. Just to say, by way of starting off, all the issues and concerns, many of which the Member has raised and so on, have been raised at the Interministerial Standing Committee. I have raised those. I chaired the recent meeting and, of course, those things are being looked at at UK Government level, as part of the intergovernmental arrangements that we have. We'll have to wait and see what the outcome of those are.

In terms of pragmatic prioritisation, it does come back again to not knowing what you don't know, and obviously one thing we would clearly want to priortise is our own legislation—the legislation that's been approved by this Senedd. But, of course, the difficulty on that is also trying to understand when we're prioritising what the implications are when you don't know precisely what may happen on the other side on similar legislation at the UK Government level as well, and the way that may interreact or impact. I mentioned the example of enforcement earlier, because, often, there are common enforcement arrangements and so on, and so all those things have to be taken into account. Probably, I can't really tell you very much more than that at the moment. I've obviously attended quite a number of Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee meetings on this. It is very much work in progress at the moment, and I will, of course, do everything I can to answer further questions and update when we are clear about what is happening. There is a lot of work that is under way at the moment, trying to understand the extent, the 4,000 or so pieces of other legislation, aside from the Welsh legislation, which have to be evaluated and what are the parts that we want to prioritise, and if there are any ways of actually trying to streamline that process. Either way, it's not going to be easy. Either way, it is going to be chaotic and, no doubt, will lead to all sorts of unforeseen consequences, but we have to deal with it as it is at the moment. Until we know the final shape of the Bill, there are still quite a number of uncertainties.