2. Will the Minister provide a statement following RCN Wales’s rejection of the Welsh Government’s additional NHS pay offer for 2022-23? TQ734

I issued a written statement yesterday to update Members, following a meeting of my officials and trade unions yesterday afternoon. I’m pleased that the Wales partnership forum have collectively narrowly accepted the enhanced pay offer proposed by the Welsh Government for 2022-23.

Does the Minister accept that the fact that over 80 per cent of members of the RCN that participated in the vote on this proposal had voted to reject it shows the crisis of morale within the nursing profession at the moment? And of course, that isn't the only measure we have, really. We have the increase that’s been seen in the number of vacancies, we have an increase in sickness levels within the NHS workforce, we have an increasing number of people leaving professions, and the numbers applying for nursing courses dropping, and so on.

Is the Government willing to look, once again, at this eleventh hour, at using the powers that you have, at least for income tax, in the higher and additional bands, in order to offer a better settlement for our nurses? May I ask the Minister also: you mentioned the partnership forum, and a majority had voted in favour of the offer; can you tell us, apart from the RCN, which other unions within the NHS are still in a pay dispute with the Government at the moment? And, through the statement that you mentioned, are you now proposing to implement this pay rise for everyone, or only for those unions that have accepted the increase? Can you also give us an update on the elements other than salaries that you referred to in the written statement on 8 February? Has there been any progress made in terms of those elements of the package that you had discussed? May I ask finally, the UK Government, in looking to next year, has said to the pay review body that a 3.5 per cent pay increase next year would be affordable, and that anything above 5 per cent would be unaffordable. Do you as a Welsh Government agree with what the UK Government have told the pay review body, and, if you do not, then do you intend to provide additional evidence to what you’ve already provided to that body?

Thank you very much. I think it’s very important that we do recognise that even though this is a situation where the unions collectively have agreed to accept the offer, we do understand that the offer has only been accepted by one vote, and we also understand that there are a lot of people within the unions who are still very angry about the situation. That’s why, during the coming weeks, we will be renegotiating with the unions about how we will undertake the implementation of this money, which has now been agreed. And what I can tell you is that all members of the unions are very happy to continue with those discussions, and that’s what we’ll be doing in the coming days.

Just in terms of what happens next—are we going to raise income tax in the higher bands? No. We’ve explained clearly that, if we raise 1p in the £1 to those paid more than £150,000 a year, we would raise £3 million. If we raise 1p in the £1 to those who pay the higher rate, we will raise £33 million. That’s not enough money to even cover 1 per cent of what’s needed, so we won’t be going down that path. What we do understand is that the unions have the right to continue with their strikes—that is, that individual unions can make decisions, but we do hope, of course, that, in the negotiations, we will continue to ensure that there is a glimmer of hope, for us to see whether we can do anything further to see these strikes called off. Obviously, we’re in a situation where the dispute is ongoing, and that's why we will continue to engage in discussions. 

In terms of the non-pay elements, nothing additional has been put on the table, but, evidently, we will be having discussions over the coming days on the implementation that's been agreed. 

Regarding the independent pay review board, we've given evidence to that. We haven't presented an amount that would be affordable, and we did underline the fact that people have been suffering in the wake of inflation, and we've emphasised that the cost-of-living crisis is impacting on people. But, of course, it's also important that we do emphasise that next year's budget is very tight when it comes to health. 

Can I thank you for your answers, Minister? One thing I just do want to try and get an understanding of is that you've talked about further discussions over the weeks ahead, and I just want to understand what the plan is now in those discussions that you referred to. I think you just said in your answer to Adam Price that you can look at what else you need to do further, and there'll be further engagement and discussions, but you've also said that the last pay offer was the final one. So, I'm just trying to understand. It appears to be a contradiction—perhaps it's not—but I'm just trying to understand what's behind that. And, perhaps you can explain whose court the ball now sits in in order to have those further discussions with the unions, and the RCN also. 

And, can I ask: do you feel that the RCN—? You've obviously had productive discussions with some of the unions, but of those parties that didn't accept the offer, including the RCN, do you think, in some way, that they've been unreasonable to reject the offer? I've always had good relationships with the RCN, but I'm just trying to get a sense of whether you think that the RCN have been unreasonable, and what your relationship, I suppose, is with the RCN and the others who didn't accept the offer that you put to them as a result of your statement yesterday.

Thanks, Russell. Obviously, we are always keen, in the Welsh Labour Government, to work in social partnership, and I would suggest that we actually have a very good and constructive relationship with all of the unions. Obviously, there are times when we disagree on aspects of detail, and we acknowledge that there is a genuine sense of grievance at the moment. That's why we want to make sure that we continue those discussions, looking at how we will implement what is now an agreed position. What I won't be doing is giving a running commentary on exactly what will be happening in those discussions. 

What I can tell you is that the way the system works is that there are around 15 recognised health trade unions, and, in terms of the way that the vote took place, those unions have a vote that is proportionate to the size of the membership. And that's why they got to a position where it was accepted by one vote. And, obviously, we are pleased to see that it has been accepted, and I think, it's important that you go and ask the trade unions themselves in terms of whether they want to disclose who did what. What I can tell you, for example, is that the physiotherapists accepted the offer, and their threat of strike has been withdrawn. The RCM—the Royal College of Midwives—rejected the offer, but they will honour the agreement and have withdrawn their strike action. 

So, people are responding differently. That's why what we need to do now, in the next few days, is to just sit down and see what else we need to do in this space in terms of seeing whether we can do anything more to avoid strike action in future.