1. What assessment has the First Minister made of the impact on Wales of the two-year delay on the Birmingham to Crewe leg of the HS2 railway line? OQ59295

Llywydd, the decision to delay aspects of the HS2 line was taken without reference of any sort to the Welsh Government or Transport for Wales. This further explodes the myth that this is an England-and-Wales project. 

Diolch yn fawr, Brif Weinidog. I don't want to dwell on the great train robbery that is HS2 for Wales, and I don't want to dwell on the comments of Keir Starmer at Llandudno recently, when he refused to commit to giving Wales its fair share of HS2. I don't expect you, Prif Weinidog, to write the next UK manifesto—albeit I'm sure it would be much better if your thumbprints were on it than some UK Labour members—but I want to concentrate on where extra funding could be of assistance, where it would make a huge difference. Transport expert, Mark Barry, has called the Cardiff West junction in Canton a 'bottleneck'. To unblock that bottleneck would enable four trains an hour on the city line. That would transform the rail network in the capital and increase connectivity with the Valleys to no end. Would you, then, commit, Prif Weinidog, to writing to Network Rail and to the UK transport Minister to unblock that junction, and perhaps the leader of the opposition might do the same? Diolch yn fawr. 

Well, Llywydd, I thank Rhys ab Owen for what he has said. And he will understand that I have to take care not to confuse the responsibilities I have as the Senedd Member for Cardiff West. In that capacity, I'm very familiar with all the arguments Rhys ab Owen has set out, and, in that capacity, I write on behalf of Cardiff residents in the way that he has suggested. As First Minister, I always have to be careful that I don't act in any way that could be taken as suggesting that I use the position I have here in this Senedd unfairly to advantage the people who live in my own area. But the Government as a whole quite certainly makes the points that the Member has raised, and makes them for all the reasons that he has set out. 

First Minister, it's clear that the UK Government is determined to make public transport a more viable option for the public, unlike in Wales, where the Government is forcing people out of cars but not putting strong alternatives in place. Yes, I won't deny that the HS2 has been slightly pushed back, but it will ultimately increase rail capacity and boost growth. We have an extremely shoddy rail network in Wales, with trains often running late, or sometimes not even turning up at all. Only this week, we were being told to expect rail disruptions well into April following a spate of fires on class 175 trains. More than 100 services were cancelled or delayed as a result, and we were originally told to expect the work to be completed weeks ago. But here we are again, First Minister, facing prolonged chaos on our rail lines. So, First Minister, don't you think it's important to get your own house in order, and a good place to start might be by sacking the Deputy Minister for Climate Change?

Wow. You couldn't make it up, Llywydd, but no doubt somebody did for the Member, because she read it out for us. Look, what we've heard, even with the thinnest of material, wasn't worth the time of the Senedd. The notion that the UK Government is serious about public transport, the idea that HS2 has been slightly pushed back, where it now disappears well on the other side of the general election—. Let me just repeat the figures. I know we've heard them before on the floor of the Senedd, but they tell you everything you need to know about the record of the UK Government. While we will electrify, in those parts of the network that are under the control of the Senedd, over 170 km of railway line here in Wales, for those lines that are under the control of the UK Government, while in the UK as a whole, 38 per cent of those lines are electrified, and, in England, over 40 per cent are electrified, here in Wales, the UK Government has managed to electrify 2 per cent—2 per cent for Wales, 40 per cent for England. Does the Member really think that that is a record she's prepared to defend?

Good afternoon, First Minister. I'm calling it the great Wales train robbery—that's what the Westminster Government are doing to Wales by claiming yet again, and you've referred to this, that HS2 is an England-and-Wales project, which actually means that Wales will lose £5 billion-worth of funding. And then, to add insult to injury, last week's announcement that the Northern Powerhouse rail will be classified as an England-and-Wales project, without a metre of track being in Wales, means that we lose a further £1 billion-worth of funding for our transport system. For a fraction of that, here in Wales, we could actually make free public transport available, not just to under-25s, but actually to the whole of the population. And this is on top of decades, as you said, First Minister, of underinvestment in rail. I do want to think constructively, though, and I hope that, in your role and your relationship, I hope, with Keir Starmer, and given that there will probably be a UK Labour Government next in power, would you restore this lost funding to Wales, or, given the recent comments by Keir Starmer, has that train already left the station? Diolch.

Wel, Llywydd, first of all, the Member points to what is the fundamental difficulty at the root of what we have seen with HS2, and now, indeed, maybe with the Northern Powerhouse as well: it is the arbitrary ability of the UK Treasury to make classifications of the sorts to which Jane Dodds referred, and which ends up with the Northern Powerhouse being an England-and-Wales form of investment. It is plainly not; it is nonsensical to suggest that it is, but the Treasury is judge and jury in this matter—it sets the classification, and, if you wish to challenge it, it is the Treasury, which made that classification in the first place, that decides on whether or not they got it right. And surprisingly enough, they almost always conclude that they did. So, there is a fundamental unfairness in the system. In the negotiations carried out with the UK Government to reform inter-governmental relation machinery, we succeeded in introducing an independent element into disputes with the UK Government, where a devolved Government wished to raise an issue, other than in decisions made by the Treasury. And that is because the Treasury itself refused, even in Whitehall, and even under pressure, as I believe, from the Cabinet Office, to submit its decisions to any form of independent oversight. And that fundamental flaw continues to operate, to the detriment of Wales.

I'm grateful for what the Member said about the chance of an incoming Labour Government. And if we were in serious politics, we would understand that, if you are preparing for Government, you are not going to make a series of one-off decisions in an interview when you're asked that question. A Prime Minister preparing for Government will be making decisions in the round; we will continue to make the case—of course we will—over HS2. A mature opposition, preparing for Government, is going to have to make a whole series of difficult decisions in the round, and you don't do that by responding to requests for large sums of money in an interview.

Do you agree with me, First Minister, that it's quite instructive that the Welsh Conservatives would prefer to support the UK Government than they would to stand up for Wales? I must have got my geography lessons terribly wrong at school, because I just discovered on the weekend that the Huddersfield to Leeds railway serves Wales, and that Crewe to Manchester serves Wales, but only if you're a Tory. Because at the end of the day, when I look my constituents in the eye, they see the Welsh Government searching for funds to invest in the Ebbw valley line, as they are in Maesteg as well, and they look across the valley at Rhymney, they look across at Merthyr, they look across at Aberdare, they look across at the Rhondda, where rail infrastructure is devolved, and they see the investment that the Welsh Government is making, investment that the UK Government is not prepared to make in Wales. First Minister, do you agree with me that if we're going to end the farce of the Tories telling us that Crewe, Manchester, Leeds and Huddersfield are actually in Wales, then we need to devolve the whole of the responsibility for investment in rail infrastructure to Wales and do it here ourselves? 

Well, Llywydd, the record of the Welsh Government speaks for itself: over £800 million already invested in metro developments across Wales, a further £800 million invested in new train fleets across Wales—trains made here, now, in Wales. What a contrast with the figures I gave you on electrification. What we need, Llywydd, is we need the devolution of rail infrastructure here in Wales, together with a fair funding settlement, and there's no point in having the first if you don't have the second, and, I'm afraid, the record of dealing with the current UK Government gives you very little confidence indeed that you would ever get a fair deal.