3. Will the Minister provide an update on discussions with the UK Government regarding the forced installation of prepayment meters? OQ59343

Thank you very much, Jack Sargeant. I wrote to Grant Shapps, Secretary of State for the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, on 13 March. I once more called for the removal of prepayment meters installed through force via this unsafe warrant process over the course of the last six months.

I'm grateful to the Minister for her consistent understanding of the seriousness of this issue and consistent support for those on prepayment meters. Once again this week, the failures of the UK Government and Ofgem to get a grip on this prepayment meter scandal were laid bare. Figures released on Monday showed that just three suppliers—Scottish Power, British Gas and Ovo—were responsible for 70 per cent of meters forcibly installed via court warrants. Minister, I have repeatedly told Ofgem that this problem extended beyond just British Gas. It was obvious to me from the scale and the speed of the warrants being issued. But, rather than seeking to establish the scale and move to protect customers, they placed the emphasis on me to prove this. The delay and refusal to listen to the evidence in front of them has left vulnerable residents in Wales and across the United Kingdom at real risk. As I've said before in this Chamber, Minister, this is a matter of life and death.

Minister, you'll be aware that this week the Senedd Petitions Committee has launched a parliamentary inquiry, and it is my expectation as Chair of that committee that the chair of Ofgem and the chief executive of Ofgem, and the executives of these suppliers, attend and answer questions from committee members. Minister, will you express my frustrations at the scale of the problem and the scale of the failures to them in the conversations you have with them? And will you also instruct them to engage with the parliamentary inquiry under way?

Well, thank you very much, Jack Sargeant, and for your continuing leadership in this field. You are standing here as an elected representative, representing your constituents, who clearly have responded to you in that powerful survey, which is influential, and indeed the Minister for Climate Change and I are meeting the chief executive, Jonathan Brearley, in the next couple of weeks. We will be both then again expressing our concerns about the ways in which your response in past times in terms of meetings with Ofgem hasn't been treated with the full respect and recognition that it should.

But I just want, again, for colleagues to know what has happened, just to repeat what Jack Sargeant has said. Just three energy companies—three—British Gas, Scottish Power and Ovo Energy, and I name them here today, fitted 70 per cent of the total of those forced installations. And just to say, the overall number of forced meter installations increased by more than 40 per cent last year, when fuel bills were rocketing and the winter fuel poverty crisis looming. Scottish Power installed the highest number of prepayment meters relative to the size of its customer base. It's just shocking. We have to keep, in this Senedd, and I think it's important that there's strong support across the Senedd, I believe, making it very clear how we in Wales are not going to stand for this treatment, and we will make this very clear to Ofgem and to the UK Government, who've got the power to make changes here. But can I just say, I welcome the Petitions Committee, the cross-party committee, chaired by Jack Sargeant? I will be saying—. I will, hopefully, give evidence, and also urge the chief executive and chair of Ofgem to do so as well.

In your written statement on the cost-of-living energy crisis yesterday, you welcomed both the decision to bring prepayment energy charges in line with customers who pay by direct debit, announced in the UK Government budget, and Ofgem's extended ban on the forced installation of prepayment meters. You also stated:

'it is regrettable it took a media investigation to highlight the issue'.

Will you therefore acknowledge that the then business Secretary, Grant Shapps, who you referred to, wrote to the energy suppliers before the media investigation highlighted the issue, stating that they should stop forcing vulnerable customers onto prepayment meters? And given your reference to the further injustice of standing charges that prepayment customers face, what discussions are you having with the UK Government and Ofgem since the UK Government asked Ofgem to report back on options for ending the highest standing charges paid for by prepayment meter users?

Thank you, Mark Isherwood. Clearly, there were some aspects in the budget that we welcomed. We called for them. We called for the halting of that rise to £3,000. We called for it. We also called, in terms of Ofgem, for the fact that the ban on forced installation should not stop at the end of this month. It's supposed to be stopping at the end of this week, but it should continue. Indeed, I say that it should continue indefinitely, and I hope you would support me on that point.

I am meeting with energy suppliers tomorrow. I'm meeting energy suppliers and I hope it will include those three energy suppliers who have already been exposed today, in terms of the highest levels of forced installations. I'll be raising the standing charges with them. Of course, Mike Hedges raises this, as he did last week in the Member debate, on every occasion. It is for the energy suppliers, but also for the UK Government to act on this.

Isn't it frustrating that we have to wait for the Tories in Westminster, who are not exactly known as the champions of social justice, to act on this? But that's maybe more of question for the Counsel General on the devolution of justice.

As I said in Jack’s debate recently, the forced installation of prepayment meters is one of the greatest modern-day scandals in our society now. It has been responsible for families going cold, pensioners sitting in the dark and, inevitably, people dying. It is symptomatic of how people who are not well off are treated in the UK. The same attitude and exploitative practices are deployed by many bailiff companies towards people in debt. With that in mind, can the Minister explain what influence and powers she has to not only tackle victims of forced installations of prepayment meters, but also those who have fallen victim to excessive charges imposed by bailiff companies? I'm particularly keen to hear of any updates concerning dialogue with the Enforcement Conduct Board.

Thank you very much, Peredur. I just want to say that, yesterday, I had a very useful and constructive meeting with the Enforcement Conduct Board. Following contributions and representations made in this Chamber, I had approached the Enforcement Conduct Board and asked them if they could play a role in accrediting those who were enforcement agencies for utilities. And I have to say that I was very pleased to hear from them, and indeed I had a meeting with Dŵr Cymru earlier this week. Dŵr Cymru is putting into the standard—you can see it on their website—the standard condition that the Enforcement Conduct Board is now stated. It's been set up so that those who are subject to enforcement action must be treated fairly, and it will provide independent oversight of the enforcement industry, with a special regard for those experiencing financial difficulty or other vulnerable circumstances. So, they are saying, Dŵr Cymru, that 

'organisations that we work with...will be requiring all enforcement agencies that work on our behalf to be accredited by the Enforcement Conduct Board.'

Now, I think that's a step in the right direction and the Enforcement Conduct Board said that it's thanks to the leadership in Wales—Government and Senedd, I would say—that, actually, it's having some bite in terms of the utilities. So, I'm going to be waving this in the faces, or virtually, of the energy suppliers on Thursday.