9. 8. Statement: The Welsh Language

– in the Senedd at 6:07 pm on 12 July 2016.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:07, 12 July 2016

(Translated)

We now move to the next item on our agenda, which is a statement by the Minister for Lifelong Learning and the Welsh Language on the Welsh language. I call on the Minister, Alun Davies, to make the statement.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour

(Translated)

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to have the opportunity today to make a statement about my plans and my priorities for the Welsh language policy area over the coming year.

As someone who has always campaigned for several years for a prosperous future for the Welsh language, I am very pleased to be leading on the Welsh language portfolio on behalf of the Welsh Government. I am fortunate to be leading on this portfolio at an exciting time in the history of the language. There are challenges ahead, but we can undoubtedly face those challenges in the knowledge that we are building from a position of strength.

So, when we consider the next steps for the Government, it is important that we celebrate what has been achieved to date. It is also timely to record our thanks to the Football Association of Wales and the national team for putting Wales and the Welsh language on the map during their hugely successful Euro 2016 campaign. Seeing large multinational companies and the British media using the Welsh language in their marketing campaigns is a huge fillip to our confidence as a bilingual nation. We will be looking at ways of taking advantage of this new interest in the Welsh language over the coming months.

Our task now is to set a new ambition that builds on the foundations that we have and to take large steps forward. Our manifesto sets an ambition to reach a million Welsh speakers by 2050. That will not be an easy task, but I believe that it is important that we focus our minds on what we are trying to achieve. It’s our responsibility as Government to set direction, but it is also essential that we all as a nation take ownership of the challenge.

As such, one of the first things I intend to do this year as Minister is to consult on our long- term vision. The Government’s current five-year strategy for the Welsh language expires at the end of March, so I'm looking forward to conducting a wide-ranging debate over the next few months in all parts of the country. My intention is to publish a consultation paper at the Eisteddfod over the coming weeks.

Whilst looking to the future, we must also focus on the present. I am committed to continuing to make further standards regulations for other sectors that come under the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 over the next year. I am also issuing a written statement today that will provide an update on Welsh language standards.

In his statement at the beginning of this Assembly, the First Minister said that the Welsh Government will seek to amend the Welsh language Measure. The Measure was passed at a time when the devolution settlement was different, so it is timely for us to review the Measure and that work will start during this year. It’s too early at present to set out the details of what will be in the new Bill, but I’m keen to look again at the Measure to ensure that the legislative basis for the Welsh language is appropriate, up to date and makes the process for imposing standards less bureaucratic.

I am also keen to revisit the process of planning for Welsh-medium education. My officials have already been in discussion with local authorities in order to refine the guidance on the preparation of Welsh in Education strategic plans for the next three years. The aim in this respect is to ensure that these plans result in concrete and timely action in a way that leads to growth in Welsh-medium education. I’m also committed to implementing the priorities for Welsh language education published in a statement in March this year. Work has already commenced on designing a new curriculum for Wales that will include one continuum of learning for the Welsh language.

Parents have a key role to play in the development of the next generation of Welsh speakers. Cymraeg i Blant commenced in April this year to encourage and support parents and prospective parents to use the Welsh language with their children. We will ensure that parents receive information about the benefits of Welsh-medium education at key points throughout the journey of bringing up a child.

I'm looking forward to seeing the National Centre for Learning Welsh officially launched in August. Last week, I attended the Welsh for adults tutors’ conference, and it is clear to me that there is a commitment from the sector to move forward and contribute to an overall plan of creating fluent and confident Welsh speakers.

In addition to ensuring that appropriate structures are in place for planning education, it is also essential that we support our most important resource, namely our people—those Welsh speakers across the country. We need to continue to support people to use the language in practical, creative and fun ways. It was a privilege for me to open Tŷ’r Gwrhyd Welsh language centre in Pontardawe last week. Tŷ’r Gwrthyd will be an excellent space to bring Welsh speakers of all ages together to use the language socially.

Llywydd, projects supporting and encouraging the use of Welsh amongst children and young people are a priority. We will also work during the next year to develop the Welsh charter across Wales, which has the aim of supporting and encouraging informal use of Welsh amongst children and young people. We will also work with young people and businesses to emphasise the importance of Welsh as a skill in the workplace. But most importantly, we want Welsh to be contemporary and relevant to the younger generation, and using, for instance, music, technology or sport to raise its profile and engender a sense of pride in the language will remain central to our promotion work.

During the next year, we will also work with our partners to help the private sector to incorporate more bilingualism in their services and businesses. As I’ve already mentioned, the excitement surrounding the national football team has given us a new opportunity to prove the value of the Welsh language in marketing, and this represents a golden opportunity for us to take advantage of.

Llywydd, these are my priorities for the year. I am confident that there is support across the Assembly to ensure a strong future for the Welsh language, and ensure that we can all commit to taking decisions in this place that will be consistent with achieving that aim. Thank you.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 6:15, 12 July 2016

(Translated)

The ambition of the Welsh Government of 1 million Welsh speakers is to be welcomed, and I’m pleased to see you confirming this once again today. However, the Government still hasn’t explained how it wishes to increase the number of Welsh speakers from something over 0.5 million in 2011 to 1 million by 2050. Now, I see that you will announce yet another consultation on a new strategy, and I assume that that will outline how we’ll reach that target of 1 million Welsh speakers. You need a strategy, but, more importantly, you need an action plan to run alongside that. We now need to see strong and robust political will from the Government before it’s too late for the Welsh language.

Now, the previous aims of the Welsh Government weren’t achieved in terms of a 5 per cent increase in Welsh speakers between the census of 2001 and 2011, and it wasn’t possible to protect the number of communities where over 70 per cent are Welsh speakers. Indeed, there was a decline of 2 per cent in the number of Welsh speakers in 2011, and a decline in the number of communities where over 70 per cent of the Welsh population are Welsh speaking. We need clarity in terms of how the Government intends to reach this ambitious target on this occasion. Now, personally, I think that we’ve had quite enough consultation. We’ve had one consultation after another. There was a conversation held by the First Minister, and what happened as a result of that? Everyone will recall the ‘Cynhadledd Fawr’. Well, I just hope that your conversation will actually lead to action on this occasion.

I now turn to a number of other issues in terms of standards, and I thank you for the written statement on standards, but there is no talk of imposing standards on telecommunications companies—mobile phone providers and so on. Do you intend to do that? That’s one of my first questions in this area. Now, in the previous Assembly, we saw a number of cuts in the budget for the Welsh Language Commissioner, and further cuts would make it very difficult indeed for the commissioner to carry out her functions in relations to standards. Would you agree that this is a cause for concern?

Now, education is one of the most important areas in terms of increasing the number of Welsh speakers for the future, and I am pleased to see you acknowledging the need for a single continuum of teaching for the Welsh language. It appears, therefore, that at last you are going to implement the recommendations made by Professor Sioned Davies, which were originally made three years ago, and it’s a great shame that we have lost so much time in relation to this. Would you therefore agree that the current consultation by Qualifications Wales on retaining second-language Welsh GCSE is pointless, and that we should consider bringing that consultation to an end and move towards developing a single qualification by 2018?

Now, you mention in your statement the implementation of priorities for Welsh language education that were published in March this year, and the First Minister said in that statement that

‘Welsh Government has previously acknowledged that it is disappointing that we have not met all the 2015 targets in the Strategy.’

And he goes on to say that

‘it is important to remember that different models of provision exist in Wales, and meeting “national” targets is dependent on performance by local authorities and providers.’

So, what steps will you take to ensure that all local authorities do assess and tackle the demand for Welsh-medium education and contribute to those national targets?

Would you agree that we need to develop a Welsh-medium labour market to provide services, for example education, health and care services, through the medium of Welsh? I see no reference to this, but, in my view, this would be a crucially important action point and we need clarity as to who’s going to lead on this work.

You also mention ensuring that parents receive information about the benefits of Welsh-medium education at key points in the journey of bringing up their children. Do you agree that we need to ensure that more young children have the opportunity to receive Welsh-medium childcare in order to ensure that national targets in terms of Welsh-medium education are met? And, as you today have mentioned the importance of Welsh for adults, can you commit to not cutting the budget for Welsh for adults?

You mention in your statement collaboration with partners in order to assist the private sector to incorporate more bilingualism in their services. Will you take action, therefore, on your manifesto pledges to establish a use-of-Welsh fund and invite businesses to invest in the Welsh language?

And, finally, I see that you haven’t mentioned the crucially important link between the Welsh language and the economy. Recognising the importance of maintaining a strong economy in those Welsh-speaking heartlands is crucially important, I think, but I do hope that you will be able to expand upon this in due time. So, thank you for the statement. I do look forward to working with you on a robust and effective action plan and a clear timetable in order to safeguard and strengthen the Welsh language for future generations. We must now move on at pace, before it is too late for the Welsh language.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 6:20, 12 July 2016

(Translated)

I wouldn’t accept a few of the points that you have made, but I do welcome you to your post as spokesperson on language matters. In doing that, may I say this? This Government will take action on all parts of the manifesto, without exception, and we will be doing that. Now, how we do that is a task that the First Minister has started this afternoon, with an explanation of the priorities for the Government. The finance Minister will be discussing the finance policy for the coming years, and several Ministers will be making statements in relation to how we develop services to support the Welsh language over the coming years. The education Secretary did this this afternoon as well. So, the Government will be collaborating, and all Ministers will be working in their specific areas to ensure the future of the language and to ensure support for the language. It’s not a matter for one Minister, and one Minister alone, to do that. This is part of the Government as a whole. You will see, as part of this work, that there won’t just be further statements on the language and the economy, language and the workplace and workforce planning for the future. That will come from different Ministers over the coming months.

May I just answer a few of your points? When it comes to the standards, we’ll be keeping to the timetable to ensure that the standards do come before this Assembly, and we will be adhering to the timetable that we have to ensure that that happens in the way that we have already stated. Now, I will ensure that the standards that come before this Assembly are standards that I believe that the Assembly can support.

There is a clear and robust will, as you’ve said, within this Government, and this Government is going to lead on this work. But, may I say this very clearly? Government can’t demand that a parent uses a particular language with their child in the evenings or when their child is playing. Government can’t demand that somebody uses the Welsh language in the post office. Government can’t demand that somebody uses a particular language wherever they are. Now, this is part of a plan for us as a nation and us as a society. It’s a matter for all of us. It’s the easiest thing in the world to come to this place, to the Chamber, and to make a speech and think that the job is done. I’m not—[Interruption.] I’m not—[Interruption.] I’m not going to come here and just make a speech, nor am I going to apologise for having a conversation and discussion with our nation about the future of the Welsh language. I think that that’s what the nation wants to see, and that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to lead that discussion; I’m not going to sit back and wait for someone else to do it. Nor am I going to think that I have the right to publish a consultation document without going through any kind of discussion with this nation at all. I’m not going to do that. My style is to leave the Bay, to travel around Wales, to speak to people in their communities across the nation, and then come back to this place with something that I think will have the support of all parts of Wales. I’m not going to apologise for that. I think that, if we are serious—and that’s the difference, isn’t it? If we are serious about the future of the Welsh language, then everyone in this place would support that.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 6:25, 12 July 2016

(Translated)

There’s so much to get through, so, just to save some time, I’ll say that I agree with what Sian Gwenllian had to say about the strategy and the need for a plan. We’ve had strategies and plans in the past, and they haven’t worked. We’ve seen a decline in the number of Welsh speakers in the heartlands, and there aren’t enough places in our local schools for children who want to undertake Welsh-medium education.

But just a word of comfort here for you for once: I do understand how difficult this will be, because, having a strategy for something that is so personal as your choice of language is very difficult. When you talked about having the support of everyone in Wales for any positive things that the Government and the Assembly are trying to put in place, that is important, but that is not an excuse, Minister, to do nothing or to do things that don’t work.

Can I just say something before I move to questions? You said something in the English statement that you missed it out in your Welsh speech today, which is ‘to hear the language every day’. That’s the fundamental challenge for the success of any strategy for the Welsh language, I think. And, unfortunately, you missed this out somehow in your speech in Welsh today.

Now, if I could just move on to standards, you mentioned a timetable, but you haven’t explained why the standards that fell by the wayside in the last Assembly—I think it was the third tranche, but certainly it was the one related to education—why that has taken so much time to come back for consideration in the Assembly. In terms of amending the Measure, I’ll come back to that. In terms of education planning, I see that you have talked about how to create growth in Welsh-medium education, but you haven’t said much about how to improve the standard of Welsh in non-Welsh-medium education. I know you mentioned a continuum, and the work of Sioned Davies, and, of course, Donaldson is on the horizon too, but there’s a long period of time being covered there, and I would like to know what you intend to do in terms of the standards and the attitudes of some teachers in non-Welsh-medium schools.

Keeping an eye on, and goodwill for, the plans for Welsh for children and Welsh for adults, because these are new plans and proposals—but, in terms of promoting the language, well, yes, it’s true to say that Welsh speakers are the important resource here, but there are more important resources, in my view, and they are Welsh learners. Learners can be role models and show people--people like me, in a way—that it is fine to make mistakes, and to continue and make improvement, rather than getting everything bang on the first time. Because, as I said at the outset, language is a very personal thing, and people who do speak the language better than others can be a problem on occasion, rather than providing support.

In terms of young people, yes, I agree that you need to encourage the informal use of the Welsh language, and the place to start doing that is within our schools, because what we don’t hear on the corridors of non-Welsh-medium schools is the Welsh language. If we are to persuade, in particular, young people that the Welsh language is a real tangible thing, because they don’t hear it elsewhere, why don’t we hear it informally elsewhere? And, as well as our non-Welsh-medium schools, I would also like to hear something about our high streets, because that’s where children and young people could hear the Welsh language used informally.

In terms of business, you’ve mentioned partners to help the private sector to incorporate more bilingualism, but what you haven’t said is where the benefit is. You have to show those small business that there is a benefit in being bilingual—or trilingual. Because structures, plans and strategies aren’t going to help a garage where two people are employed. We have to have something far more grass roots than we’ve had in that regard.

Ac, i ddirwyn i ben, roeddwn i eisiau siarad am ddiwygio Mesur y Gymraeg. Mae'n fater yr wyf wedi ei godi eisoes, ac mae'n debyg ei fod yn ddadleuol â rhai o'r bobl yn y Siambr hon. Ac rwyf yn dweud hyn oherwydd fy mod eisiau i'n safonau'r Gymraeg weithio. Mae gan Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg lawer o rym i wneud yn siŵr bod safonau'r Gymraeg yn cael eu gorfodi ac y cydymffurfir â hawliau'r Gymraeg. Yr hyn nad oes gennym yw rhywbeth cyfatebol lle, efallai, gadewch i ni ddweud bod awdurdod lleol—gallai fod yn unrhyw gorff cyhoeddus yr effeithir arno gan y safonau yn y tymor hir— yn orfrwdfrydig, nid o ran y ffordd y maent yn cyflwyno'r safonau, ond o ran y ffordd y maent yn gweinyddu safonau. Mae siawns bob amser y gallent orwneud pethau.

Nid oes gan Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg unrhyw bwerau, cyn belled ag y gwellaf i— [Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf yn golygu cyflwyno safonau, yr wyf yn golygu y gallai fod gennych unigolyn mewn adran benodol mewn gwasanaeth cyhoeddus a allai fod yn orfrwdfrydig yn y ffordd y mae'n mynnu bod y safonau yn cael eu gweinyddu, os dyna'r ffordd o'i ddweud. Oherwydd fy mod eisiau i'r safonau hyn weithio, nid wyf eisiau iddynt gael eu tanseilio drwy gael eu cyflwyno yn anfwriadol orfrwdfrydig yn rhywle. Rwyf eisiau iddynt weithio. Hoffwn weld y Gweinidog ar ryw bwynt o leiaf yn sôn am ba fath o lwybr fyddai gan rywun sy'n teimlo ei fod wedi ei anfanteisio oherwydd bod safon wedi ei gamgymhwyso.

Oherwydd, os oes gennych yr hawl i fwynhau'r safonau, gallwch fynd at Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg os na orfodwyd yr hawl honno ar eich cyfer, ond pan efallai fod rhwymedigaeth wedi ei gosod ar rywun a bod ganddynt broblem â hynny, nid oes ganddyn nhw unman i fynd o dan y Mesur presennol. Os ydych chi'n siarad am i'r Gymraeg a'r Saesneg gael eu trin yn gyfartal yn y lle hwn, mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn wyliadwrus rhag i unrhyw ddamweiniau, ac rwyf yn golygu damweiniau, ddigwydd a fydd yn tanseilio gwerth safonau'r Gymraeg. Wn i ddim os ydw i'n cyfleu'n glir yr hyn yr wyf yn obeithio ei gyfleu yn y fan yna. Yn sicr, nid yw'n, 'gadewch i ni wneud hyn yn Saesneg cyn ei wneud yn y Gymraeg' mewn unrhyw ffordd o gwbl. Ond bydd pobl a fydd yn ddamweiniol yn disgyn drwy'r rhwyd ar hyn ac nid oes gan Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg bwerau i ymdrin â hynny ar hyn o bryd, a dyna'r hyn yr wyf yn ei ofyn i chi ei ystyried. Diolch.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 6:32, 12 July 2016

(Translated)

Thank you and thank you for your comments. I am clearly willing to consider the matters that the Member has raised. The Minister will also understand that there is an appeals process against decisions made by the commissioner, and there is a Welsh language tribunal that has been establish to listen to any appeals against the standards. If the process that we have in place isn’t clear, then every Member will have the opportunity to suggest changes when we come to discussing amending the Measure. I am entirely certain in my mind that I would want to see any kind of new Bill reflecting the vision and the strategy that we have.

I want the vision for the Welsh language to come first. That’s why I will be speaking to people across the nation first of all; speaking to people, sharing experiences, sharing ideas, sharing a vision for the future of the Welsh language—it’s a language for all of us—and the basis of that creating a strategy, and on the basis of the strategy, legislating. I don’t want to legislate straight away, because I want the experience gained from the discussions across Wales to enrich the kind of discussions that we have here, and then that we legislate when we know exactly how we want to amend the Measure, and also where we want to reach through legislation ultimately. Clearly I will be very happy to have that discussion at that time.

May I return to one of the main topics that Suzy Davies raised, namely the situation in the world of education? My officials are in discussion at present with local authorities across Wales with regard to the Welsh-medium education plans. I’m clear in my mind that I want to see plans that are going to lead to major growth in the provision of Welsh-medium education, and I want to see how local authorities are going to do that over the coming years. When I come to look at those plans, I will look at them and will consider how they increase the numbers of children who receive their education through the medium of Welsh. That’s how I will be looking at those, and hopefully agree on plans with local authorities, because through giving an opportunity to people to learn through the medium of Welsh, we’ll help to create more speakers in future, and in doing that I do think that we want to promote the language not just with the small businesses that the Member has mentioned, but also every part of society and the community. I want us as a national society and community to decide that we want to see our nation being a bilingual nation, and that’s not a matter for politicians alone.

Photo of Caroline Jones Caroline Jones UKIP 6:35, 12 July 2016

Diolch, Lywydd. Thank you for your statement, Minister, and your earlier written statement. All of us in this Chamber wish to see the Welsh language survive and thrive.

Rwy’n dysgu Cymraeg.

To say that it won’t be an easy task to reach a million Welsh speakers by 2050 is an understatement. Annual population survey estimates show that, over the fourth Assembly, the percentage of people who say they can speak Welsh actually fell, so we have an uphill battle ahead. I look forward to your strategy for the next five years, when you publish it over the summer. We also look forward to seeing your proposed amendments to the Welsh language Measure. However, if we are to increase the numbers of Welsh speakers, sometimes it’s not strategies or even legislation that we need, important as they both are, but improvements to Welsh language education and access to learning, and we need to give people the confidence in learning our language.

I note that you will be refining the guidance on the preparation of Welsh in education strategic plans. This is also welcome, Minister, but many of us would like to see the Welsh in education strategic plans strengthened. Do you have any plans to legislate to put Welsh in education strategic plans on a firmer footing? Minister, you mentioned the new curriculum and how it will include one continuum of learning for the Welsh language but nothing about how the language is actually taught. Many young people are put off learning Welsh because of poor teaching practices. What is your Government doing to improve the delivery of Welsh language teaching?

With regard to adult learning, while we welcome the creation of the National Centre for Learning Welsh, what is your Government doing to ensure language courses are available in all areas of Wales given the pressures on our further education sector and cuts to the Welsh for adults programme?

Finally, Minister, you talk about working with your partners to help the private sector offer more bilingual services. It is vital that we take the private sector along with us. What will the Welsh Government be doing to make it easier for the private sector to offer Welsh language services? Thank you very much—diolch yn fawr.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 6:38, 12 July 2016

I’m grateful to the Member for her comments. Can I just say—? In terms of taking forward the strategy, it’s my clear intention to ensure that we have a long-term strategy for the future of the Welsh language, not one that merely looks towards the next year, two years, three years or even five years. I want to look at a strategy that is going to take us over the next 20 years. The ambition to create a million Welsh speakers in Wales by 2050 is a very, very ambitious statement and vision to have, but I believe that we need a vision of a change in how we do things. What we could do—and, if we followed the advice of some people, what we would be doing—is simply managing the decline of the language, and doing so in a way that makes us feel warm and comfortable here in this Chamber. That is not my intention. My intention is to contribute towards, and to lead, a national conversation about how we can restore the Welsh language in communities across the country, how we can ensure that Wales is a bilingual nation in reality and not simply on paper or in speeches, and that people have the opportunity to learn through the medium of welsh both from early years right through to higher education, and that that will be seen as a part of our overall provision, and not something that is separate from it.

On the point that was made in terms of teaching, the education Secretary spoke earlier about a self-improving education system that ensures that all teaching will reach the sort of standard and quality that we all want to see, whether it’s the Welsh language or any other subject.

But, let me say this: we need to ensure—and this is a fundamental point that I want to make in response to questions this afternoon—if we are to create a bilingual nation, it is something that the whole nation needs to do together. A politician can’t impose that, but politicians can lead that, and what I’m anxious that we do is that we ensure that certainly people have the opportunity to learn Welsh and to receive a Welsh language education in every part of the country, but then that people have the confidence and the wish to use that language at all times, as well.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:40, 12 July 2016

(Translated)

Finally, Eluned Morgan.

Photo of Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Baroness Mair Eluned Morgan Labour

(Translated)

Thank you, Presiding Officer. May I congratulate the Minister on his appointment to this important portfolio? I want to concentrate on one particular issue and that is the issue of Welsh for adults.

In 2014-15, £10 million was spent on teaching Welsh to adults. Some 14,000 people participated in that programme, which works out at around £700 per capita for those people participating in those courses. But, only 10 per cent of those that participated in the courses actually received any sort of qualification at the end of the course. And I understand why that’s the case; a number of adults don’t want the additional stress in their lives and they don’t want to take the exams. But, I would like to know how the Government can be confident about the quality of teaching and the value for taxpayers unless people take those examinations. How can we have clarity that the standard of teaching is going to be consistent across Wales, and how is the National Centre for Learning Welsh going to ensure that the system is in place so that we can be assured that there is value for taxpayers? I think that we do need to ensure—and I hope that the Minister will agree with me on this—that we have the highest standards and consistency across Wales in this effort to reach a million Welsh speakers by 2050. Thank you.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 6:42, 12 July 2016

(Translated)

Thank you to you. I appreciate what lies behind that question. It’s very important that people reach a level where they can speak and use the Welsh language. I see how important that is in terms of communication, and feeling confident to be fluent, and to be able to communicate through the medium of Welsh.

One of the things that we’ve done in establishing the National Centre for Learning Welsh is to create a scrutiny committee that is led by Steve Morris in Swansea University, which will ensure that the standards that are provided do reach the targets and the aims that the Member has described. It’s important that we provide courses that are appropriate in all parts of the nation; courses that meet people’s needs and are provided in a way that people want, and then, courses that create that ability to use, speak and feel confident in using the Welsh language. That’s what I’m confident that the national centre wants to achieve.

I have met the senior officials of the centre; I’ve spoken in their conference last week and I’m very confident that this will lead to more people not just going on those courses, but more people speaking the Welsh language, and that’s the aim of all of us, I believe.