The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Paul Davies.

We’ll move on to the next item on our agenda, which is again a Plaid Cymru debate, on the membership of the European single market. I call on Adam Price to move the motion. Adam.

Motion NDM6096 Simon Thomas

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the importance of full membership of the European single market to the Welsh economy.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. This one-line motion has a very simple goal: it’s to bring some clarity to the current position in terms of the Government’s policy on Brexit. We’ve seen a policy that is confused, chaotic and completely lacking in any credibility. That obviously has incredibly detrimental consequences for the interests of the people of Wales as we face probably one of the biggest challenges that any of us have faced in our lifetime.

With the latest attempt by the First Minister, it’s not so much a case of a u-turn by the First Minister, but a pirouette every time he gets up on his feet. After the latest attempt to clarify, in the ‘Western Mail’, I was more confused than ever. Apparently, it doesn’t matter what we call it, so we can just make it up as we go along, which he frequently does. He, apparently, is in favour of access to the single market, not membership. Well, to quote the Institute for Fiscal Studies, access to the single market is a virtually meaningless concept. Every European country has access under World Trade Organization rules to the market et cetera, it’s the terms under which that access is provided. Single market membership, as the IFS has said, involves the elimination of barriers to trade in the way that no existing trade deal, customs union or free-trade agreement can offer.

It’s curious to me, and I don’t quite understand it, that the First Minister has aligned himself with the advocates of a hard Brexit—with UKIP and David Davis—against the First Minister of Scotland and the Mayor of London, both of whom are firmly for membership of the single market. He’s also, even more curiously, perhaps, aligned himself with Jeremy Corbyn, who has also come out against membership of the single market. This is what his rival, Owen Smith, said about that position, which is now shared by the Welsh Government:

‘Tens of thousands of Labour members and trade unionists will be worried to hear that Jeremy Corbyn appears to agree with David Davis that our membership of the Single Market is not worth fighting for.’

We’ve had this illusory concept, of course, of single market access without free movement presented as a policy, and yet, even in the last few days, we’ve heard the litany of voices—the people who will actually decide on the final Brexit deal—saying this is a geopolitical impossibility. Jean-Claude Juncker, the President of the Commission, has said so in the last few days; Guy Verhofstadt, the lead negotiator of the European Parliament, who will have a vote on the Brexit deal, has said that, if the UK wants access to the single market, it must accept freedom of movement. The Visegrád nations in central and eastern Europe—four of them—have said that they will veto any Brexit deal that will prevent freedom of movement for their citizens. The Taoiseach of Ireland has said the EU will not allow free access to its single market without reciprocal free movement. And the Prime Minister of Malta—who, by the way, will be the President of the European Union, chairing the Brexit discussions when they begin—said, ‘I don’t think there’s a situation where one can discuss access to the single market without freedom of movement.’

The reality of this, of course, is that the current position of the First Minister of Wales is incredibly detrimental to Wales. We’ve seen the Japanese Government make clear that Japanese businesses in the UK invested here in the belief that they would be able to trade with the rest of the EU on the same terms as anywhere else in Europe. We would lose access to Horizon 2020 and Erasmus if we are not members of the single market, of the European Economic Area. I can’t understand it.

The reason that the First Minister has said he adopts this position is because of freedom of movement. And, again, I find this really strange, because, as has been pointed out in the Chamber, on 24 June, the day after the result, the First Minister, quoted on ITV and Wales Online, quoted on Julie Morgan’s website, said that one of his red lines was that we retain freedom of movement of people. That was on 24 June, the day after. I asked the Cabinet Secretary for finance when the policy changed; an answer did not come. I went back and checked the original press release, and it is true that the statement on the Welsh Government website—the third of the six priorities does not mention freedom of movement, from 24 June. But, one of the wonders of being bilingual, I checked the Welsh language version, which does, actually, under the third point, curiously, mention freedom of movement. Is this a case of a retrospective policy development? You change your mind, and therefore you go back and change the policy and the press notice that was put out at the time.

The Government, I understand, has now confirmed that they did change the original version of that press notice, which did include a commitment to freedom of movement, and that they forgot to change the Welsh language version. Not only misleading, but misleading and inept as well. What a combination to have as a Government at this time. I asked the Cabinet Minister when the policy changed. Well, we now know exactly, with precision. Because the original press notice, in English as well, maintaining a commitment to freedom of movement, went out at 9.20 a.m. on 24 June, and it was corrected by 10.04 a.m. So, in those 44 minutes, we’re led to believe—. Presumably, there was a Cabinet meeting, was there? Presumably there was a discussion with the other members of the Labour group, and with the Liberal Democrat member of the Government. Policy on a fundamental matter wasn’t brought to this Assembly; it was changed by diktat in 44 minutes. No way to run a Government on anything, least of all on probably one of the most important challenges that our people face in this generation.

Thank you very much. I have selected the amendment to the motion. I call on Mark Isherwood to move amendment 1 in the name of Paul Davies.

Amendment 1—Paul Davies

Delete all and replace with:

1. Notes the importance of access to the EU Single Market for the Welsh economy.

2. Calls for clarity on the Welsh Government’s position on the free movement of people between the UK and the EU, post the UK leaving the EU.

3. Welcomes the interest in establishing new trade agreements between the UK and other countries around the world.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to work with the UK Government to ensure the best deal for Wales.

Amendment 1 moved.

I move amendment 1, noting the importance of access to the EU single market for the Welsh economy; calling for clarity on the Welsh Government’s position on the free movement of people between the UK and EU after the UK leaves the EU; welcoming the interest in establishing new trade agreements between the UK and other countries around the world; and calling on the Welsh Government to work with the UK Government to ensure the best deal for wales.

Carwyn Jones, as we’ve heard, appears to have dropped his commitment to retaining the free movement of people. His statement on 13 September called for continuing access to the single market for goods and services. But his statement on 24 June had gone further, when he said,

‘it is vital that the United Kingdom negotiates to retain access to the 500 million customers in the Single Market and that we retain free movement of people.’

Given EU insistence that full membership of the European single market requires free movement of goods, services and people, will this First Minister therefore confirm that he now seeks access rather than full membership?

As I noted last week, two months ago, the UK Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union announced that the UK already had 10 post-Brexit trade deals lined up. We were told that we would be at the back of the queue for a trade deal with the United States, but it now seems possible that there will be a UK-US deal before any EU-US deal. The same may be true of Canada, which is certainly more interested in a bilateral deal with London than endless arguments with continental protectionists. From Australia to Uruguay, countries are lining up to sign trade deals with the United Kingdom.

When Theresa May made her first visit to Wales as Prime Minister in July, she said that she wants the Welsh Government to be involved and engaged in Brexit negotiations. Clearly, we very much support that. So, let us together champion initiatives such as the Country Land and Business Association Cymru’s New Opportunities campaign to ensure that farming, the rural economy and the environment in Wales are treated as a priority as the UK prepares for Brexit. They’re optimistic and see significant potential to do things better, but to do this, they’re calling on Governments in Cardiff and Westminster to work together to prioritise agriculture and food exports in Brexit and trade negotiations, and improve protection for consumers and the environment, whilst reducing burdens on business.

When people voted to leave the EU on 23 June, they were voting for control. That means that what Britain does once we leave the EU is a matter for the British and Welsh people and the Parliaments and Governments they elect. This process is not about picking which bits of our membership of the EU we like and want to keep; it’s about forging a new role for ourselves in the world—a deal bespoke to us, not off the shelf. It won’t be a Swiss-style deal or a Norwegian-style deal, or any other country that you can think of; it will be a UK deal. Britain is a bold, outward-looking nation, or should I say ‘family of nations’? It’s the fifth largest economy in the world; it was the second-fastest-growing major economy in the world last year and it ranked in the top six countries in the world as a place to do business, with record employment and the deficit cut by almost two thirds since its peak in 2010. So, we can be confident about the fundamental strengths of the UK economy and optimistic about the role we will forge for the UK and Wales, building on our strength as a great union of trading nations in the future.

The United Kingdom will leave the European Union and we will build a new relationship with the European Union. That new relationship will include control over the movement of people from the EU into the UK, but also include the right deal for trade in goods and services. That is how to approach it. Theresa May told the United Nations General Assembly yesterday that we’re committed to giving the British people more control over the decisions that affect them as we leave the European Union. She also said that the UK did not vote to turn inwards when it backed Brexit, and that the UK would not walk away from our partners in the world. Amen to that.

I think it’s worth just repeating that we didn’t want to leave the EU, but the majority of the people of Wales disagreed, and much as I sympathise with Simon Thomas’s motion for Plaid Cymru, noting the importance of membership of the European single market, which has been enormously important to the Welsh economy, the referendum result was clear. And the only way that we can be members of the European single market is by being members of the European Union. Therefore, we can’t support the motion. We do support Paul Davies’s amendment, because access to the single market is something that the First Minister has repeatedly said that we support—full and unfettered access.

But it’s rich of the Tories to ask the Welsh Government for clarity. We don’t have clarity form the UK Government. It’s they who have put us on the path of leaving the EU; it’s they who have failed to plan for what happens next. We didn’t want to leave. We warned of the economic consequences. It was the First Minister who warned that Wales would lose out if we were outside the single market. It was our Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, who promised we’d prosper outside of the EU. Now, it’s up to him and the PM to spell out how.

My concern is how we address the underlying disaffection that fuelled the vote to leave. In my view, the referendum was a cry of pain. Voters that I spoke to in Llanelli were fed up and thought they had nothing to lose. Since devolution, we’ve managed to stabilise Welsh economic performance but we’ve been swimming against the tide of an economic model that concentrates wealth in the south-east of England and relies on that to trickle down to other parts. That approach has failed. The vote to leave was as much a protest against that as it was a protest against the EU. We could use Brexit as a trigger, a spur, to develop a radical economic strategy that tackles that likely fallout from Brexit and which re-establishes Wales as a western furnace of innovation and industry.

The digital revolution is transforming the world we live in at a speed that has never before been witnessed. We must seize the opportunities presented or we will be left behind. We need to build on what we’ve got. Professor Karel Williams’s work on the foundational economy is forged on his study of his home town, Llanelli. They may not be glamorous sectors, but there’s much we can do with the everyday: food, energy and healthcare. These are sectors that have become dominated by large-scale privatised companies. Here’s where we need to take back control; not tear up trade rules that we rely on, but take back control of our local economy to benefit our communities and the four in 10 Welsh workers employed in these everyday sectors.

I listened with interest to Adam Price’s speech. The decision to leave the EU was the biggest shock in post-war foreign policy. It’s unsettled the markets. It’s no surprise it’s unsettled Governments. The First Minister is acutely aware that the case for Brexit was sold on extra money for the NHS and on the Australian-style points system. We didn’t support that, but despite that our voters did, and it would be wrong to ignore those lessons. We must give space to the UK Government to come up with their solutions. I share his scepticism that it’ll work. I share the scepticism. [Interruption.] I’m not sure if I have time to give way.

It’s up to you.

I share his scepticism, but let’s give them the space to prove that what they said they could deliver, they will deliver.

It’s up to you if you want to take an intervention.

If I have time, I’m happy to.

I thank the Member for Llanelli for giving way. Can he confirm, based on what he’s just said, which I think is very significant indeed, is it now Welsh Labour policy to support an Australian points system as immigration policy in the United Kingdom? [Interruption.] That’s why I’m asking for clarification.

Well, I’m happy to clarify. Of course, that is not—not that I make up Welsh Labour policy. My point is that I’m trying to explain the First Minister’s position, which is that he’s acutely aware of the message our voters sent, in contrast to the message we gave them. They listened to the lies of the leave campaign that Brexit would deliver a different approach to immigration and extra money for the NHS. I share the scepticism that that will be delivered. But we cannot come out simply saying, ‘We’ve not heard that message and we support freedom of movement as currently constituted.’ Let’s give the UK Government space to come up with a deal, which they say they will. I doubt the deal is going to be feasible, which is why I think we may well return to this question. But it is not for us to fill in the gaps in their thinking. What I’m saying is, ‘Let’s focus on what motivated our voters to reject Europe.’ It’s said, ‘Never waste a crisis.’ So, let’s not waste this opportunity to rejig our economy, to refocus on what matters.

Well, yet again we see Plaid Cymru wanting to ignore the wishes of the Welsh electorate. Is this because Plaid Cymru does not believe the proletariat has the intelligence to make an informed decision? One of the key reasons we heard time after time on the doorstep was ‘No free movement of peoples.’ When will Plaid Cymru listen to the people?

[Inaudible.]—agree with you now, David. So, you know, celebrate a victory; they actually agree with UKIP policy.

Thank you. [Interruption.] By all means, but that does not cover the fact that you are ignoring the will of the Welsh people, which was given to you in a democratic vote.

Have you finished?

Yes.

Thank you very much. Neil Hamilton.

A very commendable brevity on the part of my honourable friend. [Laughter.] I’m not sure I shall be able to replicate it, but what one must do, I think, in all these debates on the single market is to keep matters in perspective. Exports to the EU amount to about—talking about the UK now—5 per cent of GDP and, of that 5 per cent, 65 per cent of the trade would be subject to a tariff level of 4 per cent of the maximum if we came to no agreement whatever with the EU. So, only about one third of that—1.5 per cent of GDP—would be subject to an average level of tariffs of about 15 per cent. We’re not talking about a game-changing set of figures here. Of course it would produce some transitional problems for some industries if there were no trade deal to be done with the EU, but it’s massively in the interests of the EU to come to a free-trade arrangement with us. The deficit in our trade with the EU this year will be approaching £100 billion a year.

If we just take the example of cars, the deficit in cars alone is £23 billion and, of that £23 billion, £20 billion is with Germany alone. We buy 820,000 cars from Germany in this country every year. Is it conceivable that the German Government is going to facilitate a situation where there is no successor trade deal with the UK? I just don’t believe it is possible. Germany is not just the motor of the European economy, because half of the economy of the EU are basket cases, largely because they’re in the eurozone, but the German economy is the motor of the European economy and, of course, it is also the engine house of political decision making in the European Union as well. Of course, Chancellor Merkel is now in very severe political difficulties in her own country because of her own failure to recognise the political problems that are caused by uncontrolled mass immigration, both into and within the EU. This is something that simply has to be recognised. I cannot understand the blinkered approach of Plaid Cymru and a few in the Labour Party as well who seem to think that mass immigration is not a problem. So, it is inconceivable in my view that the Government—any Government—following this referendum result, could possibly adopt a policy of full membership of the single market, because, as Simon Thomas pointed out, Lee Waters is in fantasy land if he thinks that you can be in the single market without having uncontrolled immigration. So, to be like Norway, a part of the single market, also implies that you have to have free movement of peoples within the EU and any countries that are in agreement with it.

So, I think that we’ve got to see that the real advantage of the options that the referendum gives us is not membership of the single market, but actually our freedom to trade with the rest of the world and to strike trade deals with other countries, as Mark Isherwood has pointed out. So, what this is all about is freedom for our Government to decide for ourselves the policy that is going to govern our own people and the laws that are made in this country so that our own politicians, who are answerable and accountable to the electorate at elections, are actually responsible for making those decisions.

So, this is a great opportunity. There are challenges, of course, but the challenges are minor compared with the opportunities and therefore I welcome the conversion of the First Minister to UKIP policy on migration and I hope that this will infect other parties as well and that the Labour Government here in Cardiff will see the massive opportunities that are open to Wales as a result of the decision of the people, which was forced upon them on 23 June.

Thank you very much. I call the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, Ken Skates.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I thank Members for their contributions today and start by saying that, as a Government, we have been absolutely clear about the importance of full and unfettered access to the EU single market? This is a fundamental priority. We must have access, tariff-free, for goods and services to the EU single market with no technical barriers in place.

We have also been absolutely clear that Wales is open for business and have not wavered from this message since the vote to leave the EU was taken. The fundamentals that make Wales a great place to live, work and invest in remain. We are currently taking forward a significant and challenging piece of work to analyse a vast range of data and options to help inform Wales’s position.

These issues are not simple. The European advisory group meets next week and the Council for Economic Renewal also has a powerful contribution to make. Across the sectors, we are listening and, of course, we are listening here in this Chamber. We welcome contributions to the debate about our future interests. In due course, we will set out fuller details on our approach to the negotiations to ensure the best possible outcome for the people of Wales. What we shouldn’t do now is allow the discussion to become focused on terminology rather than substance. This is about protecting jobs and economic growth, which I think we should all agree on.

Our reason for opposing the motion is that, in our view, talking about full membership of the single market confuses rather than clarifies what we mean, since only member states are indisputably members of the single market and continuing EU membership is clearly incompatible with the referendum result. What other non-EU countries have—such as Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and others—are negotiated and variable agreements with the European Union. The stated intention of the UK Government is not to take an existing model off the shelf, but to negotiate a specific agreement that reflects the diverse interests of the United Kingdom as a whole. That’s the intention of the UK Government, and our aim is to ensure that Wales’s interests are fully represented and present in that negotiation.

So, in this debate, let’s focus on substance. Our headline economic goal is a straightforward one, and one that I’ve been crystal clear on since 23 June. We must continue to have full and unfettered access for goods and services to the EU single market. ‘Unfettered’ means without tariffs, quotas or technical barriers. I accept that Plaid Cymru have said on numerous occasions—for example, Steffan Lewis himself said it—if full membership of the single market is the best option for Wales, that is what the Welsh First Minister should advocate. I accept the position taken by Plaid Cymru, but I cannot agree with it for the simple reason that to be a member of EFTA is not to automatically be a member of the single market. Indeed, on their own website, let’s just see how they describe themselves. They say that EFTA is an international agreement that enables these three EFTA states to participate in the single market, not to be members of the single market. To be members of the single market means that you have voting rights, that you have decision-making rights—it means being a member of the EU. [Interruption.] Let’s just have some humility in this Chamber. You lost on 23 June. The vote was lost. We all lost—we lost together. Let’s accept that. The difference is I accept what the people of Wales said. Now, I think it’s rather a brave or bold decision that you’ve taken in your motion to ignore it.

Will you give way?

Absolutely.

He’s just telling us that membership of the single market doesn’t actually exist outside the EU. So, why was the former shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Owen Smith, saying that that is his policy? Was he making it up as well?

I can’t speak on behalf of Owen Smith, but the point that you’re making is that you would wish Wales, against the will of the people, to be a member of the European Union, when the result was very clear on 23 June. You cannot be a member of the single market without being a member of the European Union.

Will you take an intervention?

Yes.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I’m very grateful to you for taking the intervention. You talked of humility just a little earlier. You surely do recognise that the Welsh Government’s position has changed since 24 June, when point 3 of the six points that were put forward by the Welsh Government talked of goods, services and people. I note that you haven’t once said ‘people’ today. I happen to agree with the points you’re making, but you have moved the position, and the Welsh Government’s position has changed.

I will come to the point of people, but, just to remind you of what the First Minister said to you directly in response to a question yesterday, when you asked him this very same question about movement of people, he said:

‘Access to the single market for goods and services is the red line; the issue of free movement of people is something that will need to be examined and discussed as part of the negotiations.’

Because it is such a complex issue that we must analyse. What I’m concerned with is making sure that what we get out of that deal is in the best interests of people who live and work in Wales.

As I say, we want—[Interruption.] As I say, we want, very clearly, unfettered access to the single market so that Wales remains an attractive place for investors and exporters. We also want a robust settlement, clearly, to replace any lost European Union spending, and we want a secure farming sector.

Wales’s economy is in an incredibly strong position. We are outperforming all other parts of the UK in terms of driving down unemployment and, indeed, we’ve seen the sharpest decline in the rate of unemployment over the past 12 months. But we must build on our successes and develop economic priorities that deliver for everyone in Wales in every community of our country, as Lee Waters rightly said.

Now, returning to the point of free movement of people raised by the opposition Member, the leader of the Conservative party, first, let me be very clear about our view that EU citizens living and working in Wales are valued members of our society, and, as a consequence, they should certainly be able to remain here after the UK’s exit from the EU. Our economy, our culture, our public services and society have benefitted hugely from the contribution of EU citizens living in Wales. Let me be absolutely clear in my condemnation of any xenophobia whatsoever, or racism, directed at any members of the immigrant community, EU citizens or otherwise.

Migration featured as a very significant issue in the EU referendum debate, and the UK Government has signalled its intentions to introduce further controls. This is among the issues that we will discuss with the UK Government, with our devolved partners, and with our stakeholders. Migrants form an essential part of our economy and public services and we’re working to understand more, precisely, about what our future needs are. We do not want to see controls introduced that would harm job security or job creation for people who live in Wales, nor would we wish to see harm caused to Welsh public services. Let me state very clearly that we will not stand for any form of racism or bigotry in Wales. Members, I can assure you that, whilst we may well be listening to and responding to concerns about immigration, we will also stand firm against discrimination.

Thank you very much. I call on Adam Price to reply to the debate briefly, thank you.

Well, I think that what we’ve just heard from the Minister must fill us all with a sense of despair. Because I realise there are different positions in this Chamber in terms of the best Brexit for Wales, and they’re held for legitimate and sincere reasons, but I think that most of us would agree that we need clarity and leadership from the Government that we’re currently lacking. Now we’re told that more detail—more detail—will appear at some point in terms of the Government policy.

We’ve heard the Minister claim that membership of the single market outside the EU doesn’t exist. It’s called the European Economic Area. It’s existed since 1992. It was created at the same time as the single European Act. You know—[Interruption.]—Yes, it is true that not every member of EFTA is in the EEA, but those that are in the EEA are members of the single market, and I tell you why, Lee Waters, it matters. It matters to some of the automotive component companies in your constituency, because, if you’re not members of the single market, what happens when you hit the border of the EU is all the components have to be tested in a mandatory fashion. That means 10 days’ delay. In the era of just-in-time production, that kills your supply chain in the automotive sector. That’s why membership of the single market is important.

And talk about humility: I just shared with Members of the Assembly the fact that not only has the Government changed its policy without telling us, they actually changed the original press release that the leader of the Welsh Conservatives was referring to. Why—to spare the blushes of the First Minister? I’m not sure if this is cockup or conspiracy, but it’s not acceptable for you to say one thing, then, when your opinion changes, or circumstances change, you change the press release and there’s not even an apology issued to Members of this place.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Thank you very much. Therefore, we will defer voting on this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.